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Topic: Move 6 (Read 4079 times) |
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warren
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5s hd6s dd8s dd7s hd5s
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Simon
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Re: Move 6
« Reply #1 on: Feb 13th, 2009, 12:23pm » |
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Hi, I'm a newb here. I think it will help my understanding if I try to suggest something and get told (hopefully) why it is wrong, so I suggest:
6g Ec5s hd4e Ec4e Hf3w
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Simon
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Re: Move 6
« Reply #2 on: Feb 13th, 2009, 12:25pm » |
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By the way, my lowish player number is because I signed up a while ago, but played only 3 games against low bots before leaving and haven't played since.
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warren
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Re: Move 6
« Reply #3 on: Feb 13th, 2009, 5:53pm » |
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He has two major threats that I see: his EH is threatening our cat and his EM is threatening our horse if our E strays too far. I don't like how he has threats against both our traps while we have no real threats against his.
One possibility is, as Simon suggests,
6g E->d4 h->e4 ????
but that seems at first glance to leave our position kind of cramped, with only our elephant doing much.
Another possibility is
6g H->a5 r->a6 E->c4 ???? (perhaps C->b2)
but the rabbit pull doesn't seem threatening enough.
My current favorite is
6g C->b3 M->c2 ???
where ??? is perhaps D->d2 or E->c4.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 13th, 2009, 6:00pm by warren » |
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 6
« Reply #4 on: Feb 14th, 2009, 5:51am » |
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besides capture on c3, silver threatens hd4 to g3. I don't think that Hf3w is the good way to move the horse, simon, I'd rather say Hf3e to occupy g3.
I agree with warren's c to b3 M to c2. The most pressing matter might be to get our caMel to b3, so that our c3 trap can hold if our phant needs to leaves towards the eastern side when silver's camel attacks there. Pulling the ra7 would definitely not be an improvement to our position, since the game will be a matter of trap control, with several traps contested by both sides. Having an advanced rabbit would be much more of an asset to silver than a liability. I don't see much of a point to Ec5s either. As I understand the position, we would like to place our caMel on b3 to control c3 firmly, and take the b6 square with our Ha6 then (or maybe right on next move). The question would be next who can make more progress: silver on the east with his camel vs our Horse (or maybe with mh vs H), or us with EMH vs eh(h) on the west. I think advancing rabbit(s) on the a-file should be good for both sides in this view.
I can't see anything else than 6g Cc2wn Md2w Hf3e for the moment.
After playing Cc2wn Md2w we always have the ressource of answering h to b3 pushing the b3 Cat to b2 (if it becomes possible) with Ra2n Cb2w Mc2w, so we don't seem in dealdy danger right now.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 14th, 2009, 11:57am by chessandgo » |
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warren
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Re: Move 6
« Reply #5 on: Feb 14th, 2009, 7:31am » |
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on Feb 14th, 2009, 5:51am, chessandgo wrote:| I can't see anything else than 6g Cc2wn Md2w Hf3en for the moment. |
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Your proposed move uses 5 steps. Do you mean (Hf3e or Hf3n) as the last step?
Update: what do we do after
6w Cc2w Cb2n Md2w Hf3e
6b mg6s mg5s mg4e Hg3n
?
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| « Last Edit: Feb 14th, 2009, 7:59am by warren » |
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Simon
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Re: Move 6
« Reply #6 on: Feb 14th, 2009, 12:29pm » |
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but that seems at first glance to leave our position kind of cramped, with only our elephant doing much.
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silver threatens hd4 to g3. I don't think that Hf3w is the good way to move the horse, simon, I'd rather say Hf3e to occupy g3.
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Thanks! Still, I'm not sure I fully understand why this is a bad idea. The position is only temporarily cramped because silver has to do something to save his horse, and silver can't move the horse to g3 the next turn because (with our horse at e3) it takes him two steps to unfreeze the horse, and the remaining steps are not enough to get there.
Quote:Update: what do we do after
6w Cc2w Cb2n Md2w Hf3e
6b mg6s mg5s mg4e Hg3n
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If advanced rabbits are not a problem, then maybe 7g Rh2n Rh3n Hg4s ?? ?
I doubt it though, since the f6 trap looks like the one we're least likely to contest.
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 6
« Reply #7 on: Feb 14th, 2009, 12:32pm » |
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yes, Hf3e, thanks. After gold pulling our horse to g5, toying with the expert mode with e to f5, it almost seems to hold, even though it's double-edged. More sensible might be 7w Dg2n Hg4ws x. Not sure what gold plays next, placing the caMel on g6 should fail to silver's phant coming back (probably).
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Adanac
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Re: Move 6
« Reply #8 on: Feb 15th, 2009, 4:35am » |
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I agree with Chessandgo that we must return our horse to g3. However, I'll suggest an eccentric move:
Ra2>^ Cc2^ Hf3> (Ra2e Rb2n Cc2n Hf3e)
If this turns into a chaotic full-board brawl, which I believe it will, then having an advanced rabbit will be an advantage for us rather than a disadvantage. Plus, we haven't committed our camel yet and may want to move it east later. If so, we can use a mass of small pieces to clog & defend our c3 trap again a possible E+H attack.
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arimaa_master
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Re: Move 6
« Reply #9 on: Feb 15th, 2009, 5:05am » |
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I see nothing better that 6g Cc2w Cb2n Md2w
but I think that there is a question what to play in 4th step.
Horse to b3 is maybe a good move - but I think that the horse is much exposed to the gold's camel there. So I propose Dg2n instead.
Complete move:
6g Cc2w Cb2n Md2w Dg2n
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| « Last Edit: Feb 15th, 2009, 5:06am by arimaa_master » |
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jdb
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Re: Move 6
« Reply #10 on: Feb 15th, 2009, 6:07am » |
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on Feb 13th, 2009, 12:23pm, Simon wrote:Hi, I'm a newb here. I think it will help my understanding if I try to suggest something and get told (hopefully) why it is wrong, so I suggest:
6g Ec5s hd4e Ec4e Hf3w |
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After looking at the position, I think this move is worth a second look.
The goal of this move is to use the threat on his horse, to either get a grip on silver's dog or camel. The ability of his dog to retreat is limited due to gold's advanced horse. His camel is vulnerable because it is on the wing.
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 6
« Reply #11 on: Feb 15th, 2009, 7:11am » |
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on Feb 14th, 2009, 12:29pm, Simon wrote:
If advanced rabbits are not a problem, then maybe 7g Rh2n Rh3n Hg4s ?? ?
I doubt it though, since the f6 trap looks like the one we're least likely to contest. |
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Yes, we'd like to have advanced rabbits on the west more than on the east, but advancing a Rabbit on the east is definitely not out of question to retreat a piece. Silver himself will likely advance his rh7 withing a few moves.
on Feb 14th, 2009, 12:29pm, Simon wrote:
Thanks! Still, I'm not sure I fully understand why this is a bad idea. The position is only temporarily cramped because silver has to do something to save his horse, and silver can't move the horse to g3 the next turn because (with our horse at e3) it takes him two steps to unfreeze the horse, and the remaining steps are not enough to get there.
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It's not necessarily a bad idea, it's quite possible that this is the move we'll play in the end. The question is what do we want to achieve with this move? We are moving our Elephant away from the western wing, effectively undoing the steps we had played previously to get it there, without it having accomplished its purpose on the west (getting the b6 square for the Ha6 mostly). And we are moving our Horse away from g3, where it will likely have to go very soon to avoid silver's horse going there.
on Feb 15th, 2009, 6:07am, jdb wrote:
After looking at the position, I think this move is worth a second look.
The goal of this move is to use the threat on his horse, to either get a grip on silver's dog or camel. The ability of his dog to retreat is limited due to gold's advanced horse. His camel is vulnerable because it is on the wing. |
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It seems rather unlikely to me that we can pull the d6 dog while silver's elephant stays in the center (e3/d3). I don't think that silver's camel is vulnerable, as silver is willing to advance his h-file rabbits to cover it.
This said 6g Ec5s hd4e Ec4e Hf3w is interesting.
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 6
« Reply #12 on: Feb 15th, 2009, 7:21am » |
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on Feb 15th, 2009, 4:35am, Adanac wrote:I agree with Chessandgo that we must return our horse to g3. However, I'll suggest an eccentric move:
Ra2>^ Cc2^ Hf3> (Ra2e Rb2n Cc2n Hf3e)
If this turns into a chaotic full-board brawl, which I believe it will, then having an advanced rabbit will be an advantage for us rather than a disadvantage. Plus, we haven't committed our camel yet and may want to move it east later. If so, we can use a mass of small pieces to clog & defend our c3 trap again a possible E+H attack. |
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If we want to put a R on b3, I'd rather put the Rb1 rather than Ra2 (Rb1nn instead of Ra2en). In the resulting position, I think we'd better have an Ra2 than an Rb1 (closer to the action when it will advance). One thing is that after this move we are 5 steps away from having our caMel on b3, while with the C->b3 M->c2 move we're 4 steps away from it.
It is true that if Simon's move is answered by He3e ed3e x x (with one "x" being a horse move probably), then we can have our M on b3 for only 3 steps, which is probably a gain over the 7 or 8 steps it takes with Greg's move or mine, even factoring the lost steps with the Elephant.
On the other hand, maybe Simon's move can be answered by something like de7ss he4ee, keeping the phant on d3.
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 6
« Reply #13 on: Feb 15th, 2009, 7:25am » |
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on Feb 15th, 2009, 5:05am, arimaa_master wrote:
Horse to b3 is maybe a good move - but I think that the horse is much exposed to the gold's camel there. So I propose Dg2n instead.
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Yes, we'd rather have a Dog fight the camel than a Horse. But if we end up rotating our Dog with the f3 Horse when silver's d4 horse moves within reach of g3, we'd have lost time.
(what follows is esoteric)
Not sure what silver wants to do with his advanced horse. It does not seem unlikely that he'll move it to the western wing, and if your camel reaches b3, it'll give some kind of symmetric position, each side attacking on one wing with horse/camel vs horse. In such a position, one important factor is on which wing the elephants are. Possibly we want to have the elephant on the wing where the enemy is attacking with mh vs H, but I'm not sure about it.
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warren
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Re: Move 6
« Reply #14 on: Feb 15th, 2009, 10:43am » |
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What about Simon's move except sending the horse east instead of west? That is,
6g E->d4 h->e4 Hf3e
Update: What about
6g Rb1^^ Cc2< Md2<
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| « Last Edit: Feb 15th, 2009, 11:06am by warren » |
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