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Topic: Move 7 (Read 5469 times) |
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Simon
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6s mg6s mg5s mg4n Hg3n
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Simon
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Re: Move 7
« Reply #1 on: Feb 28th, 2009, 5:23am » |
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No comments yet?
Use Dog to release Horse:
7g Dg2n Hg4w Hf4s ??
Horse retreats to trap, one step to west of original position. Last move we spent a step moving the horse east (because of the vulnerability of the Dog to the horse?).Now the Dog is one step forward which ironically seems to make it less vulnerable to the horse, but may make it more vulnerable to the camel unless it is retreated with the last step.
Use Rabbit to release Horse:
7g Rh2n Rh3n Hg4s ??
Horse retreats to where it just was previously. R can re-release H if pull attempted again. However R is in a vulnerable forward position, and can be pulled towards the f6 trap, though it would take at least 3 turns to capture it.
Move Elephant to camel:
7g Ec5e Ed5e Ee5e ??
It is difficult for me to evaluate this. One possible response of Fritzlein would be something like
7s rh7s rh6s mg5n hd4w
which I would guess puts us into a worse position, but I'm not sure.
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arimaa_master
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Re: Move 7
« Reply #2 on: Feb 28th, 2009, 6:58am » |
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I suggest to play:
7g Mc2n Rc1n Dd1n Dg1n
Which allows us to change wings in our next move with our E because now we are tied up due to defending possible EH attack at c3 trap.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 2nd, 2009, 2:09am by arimaa_master » |
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Adanac
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Re: Move 7
« Reply #3 on: Feb 28th, 2009, 10:42am » |
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on Feb 28th, 2009, 6:58am, arimaa_master wrote:I suggest to play:
7g Mc2n Rc1n Dd1n Dg2n
Which allows us to change wings in our next move with our E because now we are tied up due to defending possible EH attack at c3 trap. |
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I like that "calm" plan, though I'd rather play Ec5e rather than Dg2n for the 4th step. I prefer having the elephant closer to our horse, as well as having threats against the silver horse. We have the option of pushing the silver horse to e3 in response to our horse being pulled to g6. I'm not necessarily saying that I want to push the horse to e3 on 8g, it's just one of a few extra options that we get from centralizing our elephant.
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Simon
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Re: Move 7
« Reply #4 on: Feb 28th, 2009, 4:52pm » |
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I am inclined to like Adanac's version of arimaa_master's suggestion. I tentatively withdraw any support of mine from the moves I mentioned in my post (though other people may support them; all were discussed in the last move thread).
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arimaa_master
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Re: Move 7
« Reply #5 on: Mar 1st, 2009, 5:55am » |
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on Feb 28th, 2009, 10:42am, Adanac wrote:
I like that "calm" plan, though I'd rather play Ec5e rather than Dg2n for the 4th step. I prefer having the elephant closer to our horse, as well as having threats against the silver horse. We have the option of pushing the silver horse to e3 in response to our horse being pulled to g6. I'm not necessarily saying that I want to push the horse to e3 on 8g, it's just one of a few extra options that we get from centralizing our elephant. |
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Dg1n prevents silver from flipping our elephant to e3.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 2nd, 2009, 2:10am by arimaa_master » |
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Oystein
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Re: Move 7
« Reply #6 on: Mar 1st, 2009, 6:43am » |
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on Mar 1st, 2009, 5:55am, arimaa_master wrote:| Dg2n prevents silver from flipping our elephant to e3. |
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Something seems to be wrong here, do you mean Dd1n prevents silver from flipping our camel to e3?
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| « Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2009, 6:43am by Oystein » |
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 7
« Reply #7 on: Mar 1st, 2009, 2:52pm » |
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Hey great, when pondering about the position I thought most would like one of Simon's proposal, I'm delighted to see that people support M to c3.
Simon, after Eeee x, silver's critical answer might be hb6ss Cb3s hb4s. The position is not completely clear as we have the M to b2 ressource, but we would have to compute it very carefully, the feeling is that we'll probably lose material.
After AM's move, silver can play msHsmsHs, and envision hostaging the H on g7 from f7. The position seems rather unclear, as the hostage does not hold well, but our g3 trap becomes weak at the same time. We definitely have to work something out.
After Greg's move, the same move (pull H south twice) seems to be possible as well, as if we push the h to e3 silver can play d to f4. Unless we find a move then, it does not seems to hold. Othewise, same question, what do we do.
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arimaa_master
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Re: Move 7
« Reply #8 on: Mar 2nd, 2009, 2:09am » |
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on Mar 1st, 2009, 6:43am, Oystein wrote:
Something seems to be wrong here, do you mean Dd1n prevents silver from flipping our camel to e3? |
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Yes, I meant Dg1n - thanks for pointing this out.
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Adanac
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Re: Move 7
« Reply #9 on: Mar 2nd, 2009, 8:13am » |
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on Mar 1st, 2009, 2:52pm, chessandgo wrote:| After Greg's move, the same move (pull H south twice) seems to be possible as well, as if we push the h to e3 silver can play d to f4. Unless we find a move then, it does not seems to hold. Othewise, same question, what do we do. |
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Yes, you're right, the horse push to e3 doesn't work.
The centralized horse was intended to be a flexible move to give us more options. If our horse gets pulled to g6 (likely), we can also move our elephant to f5 and drag a dog or horse to e5. Or we can move our elephant to e6, pushing a dog to f6. Or we can just walk the elephant to f5, using an extra step to advance our dog to g3, which transposes into Arimaa_master's original suggetion.
I have no idea what our best tactical continuation is, but if our elephant is going to move east anyway, I'd prefer to do it now.
If it's still possible to get our horse onto b6, I like that too. I'm at work right now and can't analyze the position, so I'm not sure if it's already too late to pull the silver horse to b5??
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warren
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Re: Move 7
« Reply #10 on: Mar 3rd, 2009, 8:23am » |
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on Mar 1st, 2009, 5:55am, arimaa_master wrote:
Dg1n prevents silver from flipping our elephant to e3. |
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Is the camel flip really that much of a threat? The following line looks ok to me:
7w Mc2n Rc1n Dg2n Ec5e
7b ed3s Mc3e Md3e ed2n
8w Ed5e Ee5e Ef5w mg5w
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 7
« Reply #11 on: Mar 3rd, 2009, 2:07pm » |
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on Mar 3rd, 2009, 8:23am, warren wrote:
Is the camel flip really that much of a threat? The following line looks ok to me:
7w Mc2n Rc1n Dg2n Ec5e
7b ed3s Mc3e Md3e ed2n
8w Ed5e Ee5e Ef5w mg5w
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Then 8b h to b3 or h to c2 or M to e5 seem deadly.
I start to dislike the position. Not sure where we went wrong if we did, and wondering more and more whether ehh-m is not a great idea while I have been thinking all along it was bad. The h to d4 move is also something perplexing to me, never seen anything like this before.
I have not had that much time to think about the position, but I have hard time to see how our position holds if we let silver pull the Hg4 to g6, although I thought it could be a good idea when thinking about it first. Our problem is not that much the "hostage" in itself that the fact that our f3 trap becomes unportected and that we have only one way to prevent silver from winning material there with an e+h: flooding the trap with small pieces. Our hope is that we can exploit our MH vs h on the west to make it up for the bad position on the east, but at first sight I'm not optimistic.
So far I would to prefer Simons' 7g Rh2n Rh3n Hg4s (Dd1n) and 7g Dg2n Hg4w Hf4s (x). Playing it out a bit, they do not seem great though. In particular, x cannot be Dd1n maybe, as ed3e Dd2n hd4e Dd3n seems a bit tough to meet. 7g Dg2n Hg4w Hf4s Re1e should be better, but then silver has several rather threatening moves
(this post is getting messier and messier as I change my mind again and again when writing it ^^)
for instance 7s mg5s mg4e Dg3n hd4e, but maybe it's still ok, with somehting like 8g Cb3w Mc2wn Ed5e where it's getting over-messy.
Also 7s mg5s mg4n Dg3n hd4e might be painful.
And:
7g Rh2n Rh3n Hg4s (Dd1n)
7s R to h5 does not seem very pleasant either, we'll be losing a rabbit to get the b6 square and get our camel to b3/c3, which might be too expensive a prize.
All in all it all seems messy and dangerous. We need to work precisely on concrete lines I guess.
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Simon
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Re: Move 7
« Reply #12 on: Mar 3rd, 2009, 5:51pm » |
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Hmm. What about Ed5e hd4n Ee5n hd5e (elephant pulls horse while moving to defend f6) in response to the camel pulling the horse north (after Adanac's version of arimaa_master's move)?
7g Mc2n Rc1n Dd1n Ec5e
-7s mg5n Hg4n mg6n Hg5n
--8g Ed5e hd4n Ee5n hd5e
---8s ed3n ed4w ec4w Mc3n
----9g Ra2n Cb3e Mc4e Md4s (or similar)
---8s ed3n ed4e ee4e ef4n
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 7
« Reply #13 on: Mar 4th, 2009, 11:59am » |
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on Mar 3rd, 2009, 5:51pm, Simon wrote:Hmm. What about Ed5e hd4n Ee5n hd5e (elephant pulls horse while moving to defend f6) in response to the camel pulling the horse north (after Adanac's version of arimaa_master's move)?
7g Mc2n Rc1n Dd1n Ec5e
-7s mg5n Hg4n mg6n Hg5n
--8g Ed5e hd4n Ee5n hd5e
---8s ed3n ed4w ec4w Mc3n
----9g Ra2n Cb3e Mc4e Md4s (or similar)
---8s ed3n ed4e ee4e ef4n
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I don't understand your 8s moves. How about 8s Hg6e mg7s cg8s ed3e? The hostage is already tough to break, we might escape fro the edge of our teeth with something like 9g he5w Ee6s Ee5e Dg2n 9s ed5see x 10g Ef5ew mg6, but our position seems bad anyway.
If the E ends up on f5 rather than e6 on 8g then 8s de7s rf7w mg7w Hg6n followed by an e+h attack around f3 seems even worse for us.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 4th, 2009, 12:06pm by chessandgo » |
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Adanac
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Re: Move 7
« Reply #14 on: Mar 4th, 2009, 12:09pm » |
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on Mar 3rd, 2009, 2:07pm, chessandgo wrote:| All in all it all seems messy and dangerous. We need to work precisely on concrete lines I guess. |
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Yes, indeed.
We should continue to brainstorm ideas until we come up with ONE solid plan, even if we have to burn a lot of our reserve time. I guess now would be a great time to create a move tree!
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