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   Author  Topic: Move 8  (Read 4030 times)
Adanac
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Re: Move 8
« Reply #15 on: Mar 28th, 2009, 6:09pm »
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I’ve been busy this week, and am just beginning my analysis now.  I haven’t seen this possibility discussed yet:
 
8g Ed5e Ee5e Mc2n Rc1n  (freeze silver camel, protect SW trap)
 
If:   8s ed3s Mc3e Md3e ed2n  (gold camel flip to e3) then we drag the silver camel to f4 on 9g with a huge advantage positional advantage.
 
Since he effectively cannot play the camel flip, aren’t we gaining a huge tempo by freezing his camel while activating ours?  Our southwest trap is secure for the foreseeable future and I assume Karl will have to retreat the camel.  Eventually I’d like to get our camel to b4 (a few moves from now), but only after we’ve blocked the possibility of the silver elephant crossing over to the b3 square.  i.e. get rabbits on a3 and b2 before we think of moving the camel to b4.
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Hannoskaj
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Re: Move 8
« Reply #16 on: Mar 29th, 2009, 2:18am »
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8g Ed5e Ee5e Mc2n Rc1n  

 
Yes I like it.
 
One thing I had not yet paid attention to, is that if he pushes his rabbit to h5, our east wing is more secure without the elephant: with Dh4 Hg3, we can undo in one step any pull by the camel: he would have to move again the rabbit before taking action.
 
Another theme I have been looking at quite a lot (in fact that was one of the main ideas of my latest suggestions with Es he) is the fact that with
Dd1n E pushes horse to e3, then there is almost no defense against the loss of the horse.
 
Ex:
8g Rc1n Mn Eee
  8s Rh7ss Mn Hb6s
     9g Dd1n Dg4e Esw (threaten h to e3)
       feels very comfortable (ex: 9s Hd4w Hb5ss cs 10g Eww hw[or n of we do not want them to flee] He [Edit: Ce2n] looks even better)
 
Now I think i would reply, as Silver:
  8s Rh7ss Mn Hd4w
That renews the camel flip threat, and it's hard to defend against it while tucking the g4 dog out of the way (so with three steps).
 
Maybe 9g Dg4e Es (to have time for Ec4 hn(or e) on next move, in case of his Hsss) Dd1n Ce2n ?
 
By the way, on AM's move, since I think our attack is very good after Hnn dnn 9g En dn Hnn, I would probably play on the two sides: 8s Ms ds Hd4w and maybe Hb5s. If we start EH  attack, it's slightly weaker than with the dog already pulled or even hostage, and our elephant is far from west incase for example of camel flip. Meanwhile, if we simply retreat dog, east is still vulnerable if we have to call back the phant.
« Last Edit: Mar 29th, 2009, 11:13am by Hannoskaj » IP Logged
warren
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Re: Move 8
« Reply #17 on: Mar 29th, 2009, 9:37am »
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on Mar 29th, 2009, 2:18am, Hannoskaj wrote:
8g Rc1n Mn Eee
  8s Rh7ss Mn Hb5s
     9g Dd1n Db4e Esw (threaten h to e3)

Your 8s and 9g moves do not appear legal as there is no horse on b5 nor dog on b4. Do you mean the silver horse on b6 and the gold dog on g4?
 
Update: Adanac's
 8g Ed5e Ee5e Mc2n Rc1n
seems solid and is my current favorite.
« Last Edit: Mar 29th, 2009, 10:36am by warren » IP Logged
Hannoskaj
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Re: Move 8
« Reply #18 on: Mar 29th, 2009, 10:18am »
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Quote:

Your 8s and 9g moves do not appear legal. There is no horse on b5 nor dog on b4. Do you mean the silver horse on b6 and the gold dog on g4?  

 
Yes to both. Edited.
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Adanac
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Re: Move 8
« Reply #19 on: Mar 29th, 2009, 10:50am »
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on Mar 29th, 2009, 2:18am, Hannoskaj wrote:
Now I think i would reply, as Silver:
  8s Rh7ss Mn Hd4w
That renews the camel flip threat, and it's hard to defend against it while tucking the g4 dog out of the way (so with three steps).
 
Maybe 9g Dg4e Es (to have time for Ec4 hn(or e) on next move, in case of his Hsss) Dd1n Ce2n ?

 
Note: I've changed "b4 dog" to "g4 dog" above, which I believe was the intent
 
Yes, that’s a very interesting suggestion for 8s in response to 8g Ed5e Ee5e Mc2n Rc1n.  On the one hand, the silver horse is walking right into danger by freezing itself on c4, tying the silver elephant to the c3 trap.  However, we won’t be able to create a fast enough threat near the f3 trap to prevent the camel flip.
 
We do have plenty of creative options at our disposal such as 9g Dg4e Ef5e Hf3w Dd1n, preventing the camel flip and keeping the e3 horse safe due to threats against the silver camel & horse.  We also have the option of 9g Ef5w Ee5w de6s Dg4s.  That position is quite chaotic, but at least we’re holding the southwest trap while creating a new threat on the east side…
« Last Edit: Mar 29th, 2009, 10:51am by Adanac » IP Logged


Hannoskaj
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Re: Move 8
« Reply #20 on: Mar 29th, 2009, 11:46am »
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Quote:

Note: I've changed "b4 dog" to "g4 dog" above, which I believe was the intent
 
Décidément...
 
Quote:

We do have plenty of creative options at our disposal such as 9g Dg4e Ef5e Hf3w Dd1n, preventing the camel flip and keeping the e3 horse safe due to threats against the silver camel & horse.  

And the e3 horse has the funny consequence that the "Come on, I fear you not" answer by Silver that would be
9s Hb6sss cs 10g hw Mw Ha6ss 10s Eww mn x( for ex. De6s)  
loses to Me hs He3w Rb1e.
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Simon
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Re: Move 8
« Reply #21 on: Mar 29th, 2009, 7:31pm »
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Adanac, looks like you have found a way to move E to m (like my first inpulse was to do) without unduly endangering the c3 trap (which is what made me abandon that idea). I withdraw my suggestion and support yours.
 
I'm not completely happy though...our threat to the camel doesn't seem strong enough to really force Fritzlein to act in the east. So I'm worried that he will focus on the west, and if he can generate enough of a threat there to force us to act there at the expense of not doing anything to the camel, then he wins since he has the greater forces in the west.
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 8
« Reply #22 on: Mar 30th, 2009, 4:30am »
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Discussion has been good, but we are using up our reserve.  Let's vote Tuesday.
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jdb
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Re: Move 8
« Reply #23 on: Mar 31st, 2009, 5:18am »
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Quote:
8g Ed5e Ee5e Mc2n Rc1n  (freeze silver camel, protect SW trap)

 
This move looks good to me. I couldn't find a killer move for silver, and it gives him enough of a chance to make a mistake. Unless someone finds a crushing reply, it gets my vote.
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 8
« Reply #24 on: Mar 31st, 2009, 8:15am »
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I'm away and I can't load the game board it seems Sad From what I recall, Greg's move is really nice, I had not thought about flipping the m to f4 after silver flips our own caMel, just about pushing it to g4 which lead to disaster as silver could just push our M to f3 and attack the c3 trap next. If you guys think after m flipped to f4 the position holds, I trust you and vote for this Smiley
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Simon
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Re: Move 8
« Reply #25 on: Mar 31st, 2009, 8:38am »
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It's not a flip, but a pull (E goes to e4). But it looks good.
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 8
« Reply #26 on: Apr 1st, 2009, 8:48am »
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on Mar 31st, 2009, 8:38am, Simon wrote:
It's not a flip, but a pull (E goes to e4). But it looks good.

 
ahh I thought about E staying on f5.
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 8
« Reply #27 on: Apr 2nd, 2009, 3:32am »
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TheMob nearly unanimously chooses Mc2n Rc1n Ed5e Ee5e.  Only 9 voters.  We are a small rabble.
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