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Topic: Move 10 (Read 5384 times) |
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camelback
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Re: Move 10
« Reply #15 on: Apr 18th, 2009, 11:57pm » |
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on Apr 18th, 2009, 8:30am, Hannoskaj wrote:Another similar possibility is:
Ews hs Ha5
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I think the following response from silver makes the west side much weaker for gold.
10s eb4e Mb3n rb8s ra7s
I like chessandgo's move.
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Hannoskaj
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Re: Move 10
« Reply #16 on: Apr 19th, 2009, 1:40am » |
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on Apr 18th, 2009, 11:57pm, camelback wrote:
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I think the following response from silver makes the west side much weaker for gold.
10s eb4e Mb3n rb8s ra7s
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How would you reply as Silver to 11g Ha4 Mb3 hd3 Ed4 ? It looks very good for Gold to me.
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Adanac
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Re: Move 10
« Reply #17 on: Apr 19th, 2009, 6:47am » |
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on Apr 19th, 2009, 1:40am, Hannoskaj wrote:| 10s eb4e Mb3n rb8s ra7sHow would you reply as Silver to 11g Ha4 Mb3 hd3 Ed4 ? It looks very good for Gold to me. |
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Yes, I think we're easily winning in this variation. If Fritzlein wants to spend 2 steps blocking our horse out of the a6 square while his own horse is in mortal danger in the middle of the board, I'm fine with that 
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warren
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Re: Move 10
« Reply #18 on: Apr 19th, 2009, 7:53am » |
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I think I like Hannoskaj's
10g Ef5w hd5s Ee5w Ha6s
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camelback
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Re: Move 10
« Reply #19 on: Apr 19th, 2009, 11:57am » |
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on Apr 19th, 2009, 1:40am, Hannoskaj wrote:
How would you reply as Silver to 11g Ha4 Mb3 hd3 Ed4 ? It looks very good for Gold to me. |
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Yes! that's a good reply
Here are some wild lines that I'm not sure which side has advantage. May be there is a inevitable horse exchange...
10w Ef5w hd5s Ee5w Ha6s
10b eb4n eb5s Ha5e ra7s
11w Mb3e Mc3e Ed5w Hb5w
11b eb4e hd4n ec4e de6s
12w Ec5w hd5w hc5s Eb5e
12b Md3s ed4s de5w hb6s
10w Ef5w hd5s Ee5w Ha6s
10b eb4e hd4e he4e hf4e
11w Ed5e Ee5e Ef5s Ha5s
11b ec4w mg6s Dh4s hg4e
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Hannoskaj
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Re: Move 10
« Reply #20 on: Apr 19th, 2009, 10:35pm » |
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on Apr 19th, 2009, 11:57am, camelback wrote:
Yes! that's a good reply
Here are some wild lines that I'm not sure which side has advantage. May be there is a inevitable horse exchange...
10w Ef5w hd5s Ee5w Ha6s
10b eb4n eb5s Ha5e ra7s
11w Mb3e Mc3e Ed5w Hb5w
11b eb4e hd4n ec4e de6s
12w Ec5w hd5w hc5s Eb5e
12b Md3s ed4s de5w hb6s
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That one is very interesting! I had completely missed Eew hb5 x.
In fact, since on Ec5 hb5 x, there is 11g Mb4 Ha5 Ed4 hd3, I had come to think that the only move was Ec4 Hg4, discussed below, all the more since (at first glance) it looks relatively demure.
On 10s Eew hb5 x, the tense move is
11g Ec4 dc5.
The idea is to threaten to kill horse AND dog for our horse. We keep the possibility of switching side with camel. It looks very complicated.
Quote:
10w Ef5w hd5s Ee5w Ha6s
10b eb4e hd4e he4e hf4e
11w Ed5e Ee5e Ef5s Ha5s
11b ec4w mg6s Dh4s hg4e |
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On 10s Ec4 Hg4:
either follow with elephant, or with camel.
First case: Ef4 x (your proposal) leaves the silver horse a little more free, but our elephant is probably better placed.
Second case (most forcing): Eg5 Ha4.
Then there is no choice for Silver, he has to defend with elephant (f4 or e3). An example where things get half crazy:
10s Ec4 Hg4
11g Eg5 Ha4
Starts getting wilder:
11s Ee3 De5 (threaten cat flip)
12g De3 Rc2d2 Cc2 (I want to send the camel up)
12s Ec4 cd4
13g Mb5 Dd4 Ce3
...
I also like 11g Mf3, even if I doubt it is the best move. We could have the whole forces switch wings in a few moves!
11s Mh6 Rg5 dh5 Hh4 looks natural.
12g Mh4 hh3 or Hg4 Mh3 x (Ec5 ?)
In the first case 12s Eg4 completes the food chain !
Anyhow, we often get jams on h and g columns. We probably can threaten horse for our dog being threatened, but in a slightly slower way. If one of the two sides can manage to keep its elephant west, it will be better: EH attack for Silver, while Gold threatens Ec5 hb5 and the horse cannot go back.
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 10
« Reply #21 on: Apr 20th, 2009, 4:38am » |
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Time to make a move soon. Do we like push h, H->a5 on a voice vote or do we want a formal vote?
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jdb
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Re: Move 10
« Reply #22 on: Apr 20th, 2009, 5:31am » |
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on Apr 20th, 2009, 4:38am, RonWeasley wrote:| Time to make a move soon. Do we like push h, H->a5 on a voice vote or do we want a formal vote? |
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I vote to play this move.
It complicates the position and gets Fritz out of his comfort zone.
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warren
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Re: Move 10
« Reply #23 on: Apr 20th, 2009, 7:26am » |
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on Apr 20th, 2009, 4:38am, RonWeasley wrote:| Time to make a move soon. Do we like push h, H->a5 on a voice vote or do we want a formal vote? |
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Let's make that move.
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 10
« Reply #24 on: Apr 20th, 2009, 11:39am » |
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Quote:
Another similar possibility is:
Ews hs Ha5
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Very interesting. At first sight I did not understand it but:
on Apr 18th, 2009, 11:49am, Hannoskaj wrote:Globally I think Gold is not bad, but I can't say just how not bad.
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Hehe
Quote:
*11s mb5 (flip)
12g Mc4 hb6c5 looks good enough after some testplay.
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Very nice 12g, impressive move.
For the little I've thought about it I like this 10g Ews hs Ha5 too.
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camelback
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Re: Move 10
« Reply #25 on: Apr 20th, 2009, 10:36pm » |
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on Apr 19th, 2009, 10:35pm, Hannoskaj wrote:
On 10s Eew hb5 x, the tense move is
11g Ec4 dc5.
The idea is to threaten to kill horse AND dog for our horse. We keep the possibility of switching side with camel. It looks very complicated.
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Yes complicated indeed, here are some lines
10w Ef5w hd5s Ee5w Ha6s
10b eb4n eb5s Ha5e ra7s
11w Ed5w dd6s Ec5s dd5w
11b cc7s dc5e dd5n cc6n
12w Mb3e Mc3e Ec4n Hb5w
12b eb4e hd4n hd5e he5e
13w Ec5e Ed5e hf5s Ee5e
13b ec4e ed4e Md3n hf4e
on Apr 19th, 2009, 10:35pm, Hannoskaj wrote:
On 10s Ec4 Hg4:
either follow with elephant, or with camel.
First case: Ef4 x (your proposal) leaves the silver horse a little more free, but our elephant is probably better placed.
Second case (most forcing): Eg5 Ha4.
Then there is no choice for Silver, he has to defend with elephant (f4 or e3).
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Yes, I realized it much later after posting that line. 10s Ec4 Hg4 is a weak move for silver and gold has much better options.
on Apr 19th, 2009, 10:35pm, Hannoskaj wrote:
Anyhow, we often get jams on h and g columns. We probably can threaten horse for our dog being threatened, but in a slightly slower way. If one of the two sides can manage to keep its elephant west, it will be better: EH attack for Silver, while Gold threatens Ec5 hb5 and the horse cannot go back.
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I couldn't follow your further lines, but I agree there is some impetus with that move. I'm OK.
10w Ef5w hd5s Ee5w Ha6s
10b eb4e hd4e he4n he5e
11w Ed5e hf5s Ee5e Ha5s
11b ec4e ed4e hf4e ee4e
12w Dd1n Dd2n Mb3n Cb2n
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Hannoskaj
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Re: Move 10
« Reply #26 on: Apr 21st, 2009, 12:17am » |
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on Apr 20th, 2009, 11:39am, chessandgo wrote:
Very nice 12g, impressive move.
For the little I've thought about it I like this 10g Ews hs Ha5 too. |
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Thank you for the compliment!
For those who want to further screen the move 10g h push H->a5, I now think that the most disagreeable answer is camelback's 10s Ens hb5 x (either Ra6, or De5, or...) To me, it looks hard to both avoid simplifications and keep/get an edge.
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 10
« Reply #27 on: Apr 21st, 2009, 7:21am » |
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on Apr 21st, 2009, 12:17am, Hannoskaj wrote:
For those who want to further screen the move 10g h push H->a5, I now think that the most disagreeable answer is camelback's 10s Ens hb5 x (either Ra6, or De5, or...) To me, it looks hard to both avoid simplifications and keep/get an edge. |
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I don't see how that can be a problem, as we can undo this move with 3 steps. Silver does not have very interesting single steps to improve, while we have Dd1n (very clear) and probably Mb3e as well.
If the fear is that silver will use these single steps with ra7s on 10s and ra6s on 11s, then with two advanced rabbits on a5 and h5 plus a threatened horse in the middle I can't imagine that silver can avoid getting a rabbit framed in rather short term and eventually losing a rabbit in middle term.
As far as I'm concerned, I don't see any problem either with 10g Mb3e instead of Ha6s.
I think both moves give us a very clear advantage, and I'm fine with playing either if others agree on one of them.
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 10
« Reply #28 on: Apr 21st, 2009, 8:00am » |
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on Apr 21st, 2009, 7:21am, chessandgo wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, I don't see any problem either with 10g Mb3e instead of Ha6s.
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I thought TheMob didn't like Mb3e because of the counter bomb found. I thought Ha6s addressed the horse exchange. TheMob seemed ready to go with Ha6s and I was about to make that move. Am I misunderstanding something?
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| « Last Edit: Apr 21st, 2009, 8:01am by RonWeasley » |
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Adanac
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Re: Move 10
« Reply #29 on: Apr 21st, 2009, 8:02am » |
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I also support 10g Ef5w hd5s Ee5w Ha6s. This line looks like our best chance to secure a positional advantage.
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