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Topic: Move 32 (Read 6348 times) |
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Hannoskaj
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #15 on: Mar 11th, 2010, 2:01pm » |
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On
32g Rd2nn Re2nn
32s Ra7eeee (in that case obviously better than Rb8seee: a rabbit cannot go back.)
what good continuation do we have ?
We cannot take g4 anymore, since the elephant has time to take, if I am not wrong.
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Nombril
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #16 on: Mar 11th, 2010, 4:43pm » |
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on Mar 11th, 2010, 2:01pm, Hannoskaj wrote:On
32g Rd2nn Re2nn
32s Ra7eeee (in that case obviously better than Rb8seee: a rabbit cannot go back.)
what good continuation do we have ? |
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I don't think it is obviously better than Rb8seee. r next to our E does prevent flipping the dog and blocks the path if our E steps aside. But I still don't think it does more than slow down our goal attack after 32g Rd2nn Re2nn.
After
32g Rd2nn Re2nn
32s Ra7eeee
then isn't
33g: dd6s Ee6w re5nn
goal in one?
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Isaac Grosof
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #17 on: Mar 11th, 2010, 9:42pm » |
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After
32g Rd2nn Re2nn
32s Ra7eeee
Then 33g: dd6s Ee6w re5nn is impossible because the e7 rabit blocks.
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Sorry about that one thing.
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chessandgo
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Arimaa player #1889
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #18 on: Mar 12th, 2010, 2:40am » |
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on Mar 9th, 2010, 8:51am, Hannoskaj wrote:
So we rely on the no-repeat-position rule. That always looks like last resort. Is that the best we could do? And can't Silver do better?
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fwiw I think the repeat rule is of major importance in arimaa, and is possibly highly underestimated by many players, used only "as a last resort" as you say.
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Nombril
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #19 on: Mar 12th, 2010, 3:00am » |
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Sorry, I was looking at rb8 moving eeee when I wrote the previous post. With ra7eeee, we can use Hippo's suggestion:on Mar 9th, 2010, 2:16pm, Hippo wrote:may be 32s ra7eeee (or instead rb8 to e7)
but freezing rf7 at 33g and replacing Ee6 with re5 on 34g would be devastating. |
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Not sure the exact steps he intended, but I'm looking at:
33g Dg6we rf7n Rd4n (4th step could have other options)
33s ??
34g dd6w Ee6w re5n re4n
as being able to continue the goal attack.
Not as convincing as goal in 1, but I still didn't see a way out for silver.
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #20 on: Mar 12th, 2010, 3:07am » |
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interesting. I see:
32g Re2n Re3n Rd2n Rd3n
32s hc5e dd6n dd7e cb5e
33g de7w Ee6n Re5n Re4n
33s hd5n Re5w Re6s hd6e
and I see, I see (hands coiling round a crystal ball)
32g Re2n Re3n Rd2n Rd3n
32s hc5e dd6n dd7e cb5e
33g de7n Ee6n Re5n Re4n
33s hd5n hd6n Re6w rg4w
The central attack is interesting, certainly something we need to analyse carefully, either for this move or the next ones. The tactics would probably work better with the rg4 captured, as silver will not have goal threats when we vacate the e4 square, as in the last variation.
Also, maybe this is uninteresting, but 32s hc5e dd6n dd7e cb5e looks like a natural defense to consider, more natural than moving a rabbit to e7, in the sense that to defend against an advanced enemy rabbit, one should place a piece (not a rabbit) in front of it. The ability to freeze an enemy rabbit is the main tool to prevent it from reaching goal.
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #21 on: Mar 12th, 2010, 3:09am » |
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on Mar 11th, 2010, 6:13am, RonWeasley wrote:
An alternative 33g dd6n Ee6w Rd5e Dg6n leads to sharp play where I so far believe silver stops the goal threat and gold retains slight advantage. But I don't recommend inviting sharp positions against Fritzlein if we don't have to.
I think advancing the two rabbits is safer. It is a more sustained goal threat. It blocks the silver horse from b3 and keeps c3 safer. It puts pieces closer to f3 making it safer too. All those rabbits touching each other is proving to be very flexible. |
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I would recommend sharp positions on the contrary, and I think f3 gets weaker since we can't move a second piece to cover f3 within 2 steps if silver moves his rg4 or his elephant to f4.
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #22 on: Mar 12th, 2010, 3:12am » |
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on Mar 11th, 2010, 4:30am, Manuel wrote:
Then silver will pull our rabbit:
32s hc5e hd5w Re5w rb8e
or attack our c3 trap:
32s hc5e hd5s Re5w db4e
followed by 33s hd4s hd3w Db3n hc3w
(see previous remarks of Hannoskaj and aaaa) |
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32s hc5e hd5w Re5w rb8e
33g Rd2n Rd3n Rd5e Re2n
and
32s hc5e hd5s Re5w db4e
33g dd6w Ee6w Rd5e Ed6e (repeat rule favors gold)
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Nombril
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #23 on: Mar 12th, 2010, 4:04am » |
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I've been finding that having our horse tied to rabbits and goal defense is a positional disadvantage for gold. Maybe it would be better to get that cleaned up before moving too many more defenders north. Charging with two rabbits just sounded so exciting. 
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #24 on: Mar 12th, 2010, 6:36am » |
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on Mar 11th, 2010, 6:13am, RonWeasley wrote:
An alternative 33g dd6n Ee6w Rd5e Dg6n leads to sharp play where I so far believe silver stops the goal threat and gold retains slight advantage. But I don't recommend inviting sharp positions against Fritzlein if we don't have to.
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If we take the g4 rabbit now, I'm no longer worried about 32s db4e hc5e hd5s Re5w, because gold can play
33g Dg6n Ee6s Ee5s Re2e
and in all lines I see gold getting the silver horse hostage, which would be winning on this board. A silver goal attack on the east can be stopped and retreating the horse gives up the silver dog.
After 32g advancing two rabbits and silver responding with the a-file rabbit blocking, I have gold playing
33g dd6w Ee6w Re5n Re4n
I think gold is good here. Here's a possible (long) continuation:
33s dc6n dc7e rb8e rc8e
34g Re6e Rd4e Re5n Re4n
34s ef5e Rf6s Rf5s eg5w
35g Ed6s hc5s Ed5w Rh2w
35s hc4e hd4e Rf4s he4e
36g Ec5s Ec4n db4e Db3n
36s hf4w he4w hd4s dd7s
37g Ec5e Ed5s hd3s Ed4s
37s dd6n Re6w Rd6w Rc6x dd7s
38g Ed3w Ec3e dc4s dc3x Dg6n
38s ef5n Re5e ef6e Rf5n Rf6x
39g Ed3n hd2n hd3w hc3x Ed4s
39s eg6w Dg7s ef6s Dg6w Df6x
40g Rf3w Ed3n Ed4e Ee4e
40s rh4s ef5e rg4e eg5s
41g Hg3w rh3w Hf3s rg3w rf3x
41s rh4s rh6s rh5s eg4s
42g Ef4e Re3n Re4e Db4e
42s Rg2e eg3s Hf2w eg2w
43g Eg4s Rf4e Ra2e Rb2n
43s rf7e re7e rg7e rf7e
44g Cc2e He2n ra4e Ca3n
44s ef2e eg2w Rh2w rh3s
45g He3n He4n He5n Rg4n
45s rg7s rd8e re8e rf8s
46g dd6n He6w Rg5w Rf5w
46s rf7w rg6s rg5w rf5s
47g Cd2n dd7n Hd6n Re5n
47s cb5e rb6s cc5e cd5n
48g cd6w cc6x Hd7s Hd6n Cd3e
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Hannoskaj
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #25 on: Mar 12th, 2010, 8:36am » |
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on Mar 12th, 2010, 6:36am, RonWeasley wrote:
If we take the g4 rabbit now, I'm no longer worried about 32s db4e hc5e hd5s Re5w, because gold can play
33g Dg6n Ee6s Ee5s Re2e
and in all lines I see gold getting the silver horse hostage, which would be winning on this board. A silver goal attack on the east can be stopped and retreating the horse gives up the silver dog.
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What do you have on
33s rd5c5 Hd4d5 rc5c6x Dc4c5 ?
For example
34g Ee4c4d4 dc5c4
34s Cb5c5 Dc4b4 Hd5e6
is certainly playable, but does not look final.
On the other hand, I still do not see anything very convincing on chessandgo's proposal.
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #26 on: Mar 12th, 2010, 9:27am » |
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on Mar 12th, 2010, 8:36am, Hannoskaj wrote:
What do you have on
33s rd5c5 Hd4d5 rc5c6x Dc4c5 ?
For example
34g Ee4c4d4 dc5c4
34s Cb5c5 Dc4b4 Hd5e6
is certainly playable, but does not look final.
On the other hand, I still do not see anything very convincing on chessandgo's proposal.
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On 34g, I propose continuing:
34g Ee4n hd5s Ee5w Rd2n
34s dc5s Rd3e hd4s ef5s
35g Ed5s hd3s Ed4s Re3e
35s ef4e Rf3n Rf4n eg4w
36g rf7s rf6x Dg7w Db3n Ca3e
and getting a hostage horse in similar lines.
At this point I see two good moves:
32g Hg3s rg4s rg3w rf3x Hg2n and
32g Re2n Re3n Rd2n Rd3n
Any others to seriously consider? At this point I think we can vote beginning Saturday.
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #27 on: Mar 13th, 2010, 2:07am » |
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on Mar 12th, 2010, 6:36am, RonWeasley wrote:
If we take the g4 rabbit now, I'm no longer worried about 32s db4e hc5e hd5s Re5w, because gold can play
33g Dg6n Ee6s Ee5s Re2e
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I don't think there is any need to analyse this 32s unless you guys found something against 33g dd6w Ee6w Rd5e Ed6e as suggested previously?
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Nombril
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #28 on: Mar 13th, 2010, 4:51am » |
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I prefer taking the rabbit. But I like
32g: Dg6w Df6e rf7s x (maybe Re2n)
better than advancing rabbits. I don't think anyone took the time to look at this, so maybe I'm missing something.
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Hannoskaj
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #29 on: Mar 13th, 2010, 2:42pm » |
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I've not analysed any further. A few thoughts however:
Nombril's move is interesting too.
I think I still prefer simply taking rabbit.
A point in favour of advancing rabbits instead of taking is that in the latter case Fritzlein will probably insta-reply. That's the obvious move,for which he was certainly already prepared when he played 31s. On the other hand, he'll probably think a while if we advance rabbits.
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