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Topic: Move 38 (Read 4483 times) |
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #15 on: May 23rd, 2010, 9:56am » |
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Nombril's cat defending at g1 seems to address my worry about taking the c5 dog. I like our position after Hippo's line.
on May 23rd, 2010, 7:31am, jdb wrote:For the following line:
38g dc5n Ed5w rb6w dc6x Db5n
38s Hg3w eg4s eg3s rh4s
On 38g, instead of rb6w, rb6n is possible.
On 38s, The elephant can stop on g3. This allows silver a step elsewhere which will alter the tactics considerably.
Just a couple things to keep in mind while looking at this move.
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I prefer rb6w over rb6n because that rabbit is not one step away from the c-file, blocking our goal threat.
If the silver e stops on g3 (Hg3w eg4s rh4s rh6s), I think Hf3w Rf2e Rd2e Re2e blocks silver (I can't find any other move that does). And then gold has a free E to escort the rabbit up the c-file. If silver pushes to g2, gold can bracket the silver e with the help of the c2 C.
So I would be ready to voice vote for taking the c5 dog, pushing the b6 rabbit west.
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #16 on: May 23rd, 2010, 2:13pm » |
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on May 23rd, 2010, 5:51am, jdb wrote:I did some analysis with clueless.
38g dc5n Ed5w rb6w dc6x Db5n
38s Hg3w eg4s eg3s rh4s
39g Cc2n Ec5e Rc4n Cc3x Hf3e
39s ca5e ra6s Rc5s cb5e
40g dd4s Ed5s dd3w dc3x Ed4s
40s ra4e rb4s rh8s rh5s
And goal the next move for silver.
Other 40g moves look very complicated.
40g Rd2e Re2n Ca3e Db6s is what clueless likes so far.
I think attacking on 39g in this line will make the game very complicated. |
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Cool, thanks for running clueless jdb!
After 40g Rd2e Re2n Ca3e Db6s though, isn't 40s rh6ss Rg5s hg6s, as Ron proposed in another variant, a forced goal for silver?
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #17 on: May 23rd, 2010, 2:19pm » |
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on May 23rd, 2010, 7:31am, jdb wrote:For the following line:
38g dc5n Ed5w rb6w dc6x Db5n
38s Hg3w eg4s eg3s rh4s
On 38s, The elephant can stop on g3. This allows silver a step elsewhere which will alter the tactics considerably.
Just a couple things to keep in mind while looking at this move. |
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on May 22nd, 2010, 6:03am, chessandgo wrote:
38g dc5n Ed5w rb6w dc6x Db5n
38s Hg3w eg4s rh4s rb8e
39g Hf3n Rf2e Hf4e Hg4e
does already look very good (note that silver can't capture the Dg7 without allowing goal).
Also 39g Rd2e Re2n Rf2e Ec5e seems to pretty much kill the game (I guess the resulting position should be a goal in 3/4 or 5 maybe). |
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Are the above moves not convincing, or do you have other 4th steps for 38s in mind?
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jdb
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #18 on: May 23rd, 2010, 3:03pm » |
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on May 23rd, 2010, 2:19pm, chessandgo wrote:
Are the above moves not convincing, or do you have other 4th steps for 38s in mind?
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I am semi-convinced. The main line given below, looks good to clueless.
Quote:
(38g rb6w Db5n dc5n dc6x Ed5w
38s Hg3w eg4s rh4s eg3s
39g Hf3e Ca3e Cc2s Ec5e
39s rh6s rh5s rb8e ca5e
40g Cc1e Cd1e Ce1e Cf1e
40s Rf2n eg2w ef2e ra6s
41g Rd2ee x x we have more options, but not immediate goal)
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My concern is that move 40g is totally forced. This gives silver 6 (!) steps to work with, the last two steps of 39s and all 4 steps of 40s. I would feel more comfortable with the move if, some of these plans were discussed.
For example, silver can do something like,
ra4s ca5s, ca4e Rc4s cb4e dd4s
And silver's goal threats are more pressing than gold's.
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Nombril
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #19 on: May 23rd, 2010, 5:25pm » |
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on May 23rd, 2010, 3:03pm, jdb wrote:
ra4s ca5s, ca4e Rc4s cb4e dd4s
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I think this would be great for us,
41g Ed5e Ee5e Rg5e Ef5e
looks like goal in 1 for gold?
But I do agree with your concern about the 6 "free" steps. We don't have the greatest record in correctly predicting Fritz's moves! I'm glad we seem to have more people looking at this move than the previous few.
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Nombril
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #20 on: May 23rd, 2010, 6:05pm » |
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Since we have a few days still... should we take a look at capturing the d4 dog?
Or even 38g Rd2e Re2n Re3n Rh2n?
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #21 on: May 24th, 2010, 12:02am » |
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on May 23rd, 2010, 5:25pm, Nombril wrote:
I think this would be great for us,
41g Ed5e Ee5e Rg5e Ef5e
looks like goal in 1 for gold?
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I agree with this
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #22 on: May 24th, 2010, 12:06am » |
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I'm not sure taking the d4 dog is really attractive. Silver still have the same attacking option, the difference is essentially that gold doesnt' have goal prospects in the west (unless we want to use our Elephant to defend on the east, in which case we're going to lose at least DR for d.
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jdb
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #23 on: May 24th, 2010, 4:53am » |
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I did some more looking with clueless. I'm now convinced its ok to take the dog.
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arimaa_master
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #24 on: May 24th, 2010, 5:00am » |
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+1 for 38g rb6w Db5n dc5n dc6x Ed5w
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #25 on: May 24th, 2010, 5:21am » |
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If I read this correctly, we have C&G, jdb, Hippo, Nombril, a_m, and me all voice voting for capturing the c5 dog while pushing rb6w. That's enough to make the move. I'll wait a few hours in case someone really thinks we should discuss this more.
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Hippo
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #26 on: May 24th, 2010, 7:31am » |
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I am still for, but seems jdb needs some more time.
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jdb
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #27 on: May 24th, 2010, 8:26am » |
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on May 24th, 2010, 5:21am, RonWeasley wrote:| If I read this correctly, we have C&G, jdb, Hippo, Nombril, a_m, and me all voice voting for capturing the c5 dog while pushing rb6w. That's enough to make the move. I'll wait a few hours in case someone really thinks we should discuss this more. |
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I will vote for this move.
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #28 on: May 24th, 2010, 3:48pm » |
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OK. This is a consensus and I make the move.
The game is in a critical state now. If our analysis is right, we should soon see gold with a more obvious advantage. If we're wrong, silver will goal quickly. There are at least two lines where we think we have only one or two moves that defend goal and lead to victory. This is much like top level chess games where a single brilliant reply turns a win into a blunder. So in that respect, I think we are seeing arimaa getting more mature.
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