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Topic: 2015 Move 3 (Read 4020 times) |
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chessandgo
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Re: ===2015 Move 3
« Reply #15 on: Jul 22nd, 2015, 3:41pm » |
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on Jul 22nd, 2015, 2:36pm, Hufflepup wrote:| Do we want to conced this choice to Sharp. |
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Given that not conceding that choice would be mean losing several steps, and that we're kind of indifferent, I'd say yes, absolutely.
Sorry for the list confusion, I guess the third choice should have been 3g Md2n Dd1n De1n Hg2n
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ikalyoncu
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Re: 2015 Move 3
« Reply #16 on: Jul 22nd, 2015, 4:21pm » |
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on Jul 22nd, 2015, 7:08am, clyring wrote:
How do we evaluate the camel push to e2 in line II? |
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I am not sure about the tactics but Horse to a6 and some fourth step looks good to me. If silver makes an emh attack on the east, gold camel would be on the correct side of the board and it can be shifted to f2 (maybe) if needed to defend. If silver goes for a rabbit pull on the h file, we would be quicker pulling the a7 rabbit. Finally, if silver goes for eh attack on c3, we would be quicker making an EH attack on c6.
All that being said, I still prefer including De1n just to make sure our Camel stays active.
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browni3141
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Re: ===2015 Move 3
« Reply #17 on: Jul 22nd, 2015, 9:56pm » |
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on Jul 22nd, 2015, 2:36pm, Hufflepup wrote:I don't like move 2. Advancing the g2 horse makes it more vulnerable to the camel if the elephants end up on the opposite wing, and we may end up having to retreat the horse on b4 to shore up C3 if silvers elephant pushes into d3.
Both the proposed moves appear to concede to Sharp the ability to choose the general direction of the game. Pushing the camel west means that we will probably be playing a game with the camels on opposite wings, if its pushed east we may be forced to play a game with the camels on the same wing. Do we want to concede this choice to Sharp. |
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I would not like retreating the horse after advancing it either, but what's wrong with defending the trap in a different way? One of b1nn, c2wn c1n or c1e e1n, etc. must be fine?
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Hufflepup
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Re: 2015 Move 3
« Reply #18 on: Jul 23rd, 2015, 3:18am » |
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I would not like retreating the horse after advancing it either, but what's wrong with defending the trap in a different way? One of b1nn, c2wn c1n or c1e e1n, etc. must be fine? |
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We could, but it would take longer, and would potentially leave the horse somewhat exposed.
Quote:| Given that not conceding that choice would be mean losing several steps, and that we're kind of indifferent, I'd say yes, absolutely. |
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How would a move like Md2n Dd1n Md3w X cost us several steps? X would probably be either Ee5n or De1n.
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chessandgo
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Re: 2015 Move 3
« Reply #19 on: Jul 23rd, 2015, 7:32am » |
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that's two steps, one played by us, and the one saved by silver not having to push our caMel. Not counting the fact that silver does not need to place his elephant on d3 any longer, etc.
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SilverMitt
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Re: 2015 Move 3
« Reply #20 on: Jul 23rd, 2015, 8:15pm » |
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So, I'm just going to try to summarize to see how good my understanding is.
There seems to be a general consensus that the steps Md3 and Dd2 are two that should be played, so that if the silver elephant comes to d3, we gain from having the camel on c3 or e3, rather than d2.
For the remaining 2 steps, we have the 3 steps Hb4, Hg3, and Dee2 to choose from. The first is towards an E+H attack around c6, which makes sense, given the silver camel all the way on g7, and I like it as the 3rd step. The latter 2 are fairly general developing steps. I don't think the horse is really vulnerable on g3, as it could realistically be captured only on f6, which would take 8 steps to do, but I'd prefer Dee2 as the 4th step.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 23rd, 2015, 8:16pm by SilverMitt » |
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chessandgo
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Re: 2015 Move 3
« Reply #21 on: Jul 24th, 2015, 2:57am » |
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Sounds good to me, especially as we avoid the 3s M->e2 headache.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 24th, 2015, 2:57am by chessandgo » |
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clyring
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Re: 2015 Move 3
« Reply #22 on: Jul 24th, 2015, 7:15am » |
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on Jul 22nd, 2015, 7:08am, clyring wrote:
How do we evaluate the camel push to e2 in [3g Md2n Dd1n Hb3n Hg2n ]? |
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on Jul 22nd, 2015, 4:21pm, ikalyoncu wrote:
I am not sure about the tactics but Horse to a6 and some fourth step looks good to me. If silver makes an emh attack on the east, gold camel would be on the correct side of the board and it can be shifted to f2 (maybe) if needed to defend. If silver goes for a rabbit pull on the h file, we would be quicker pulling the a7 rabbit. Finally, if silver goes for eh attack on c3, we would be quicker making an EH attack on c6.
All that being said, I still prefer including De1n just to make sure our Camel stays active. |
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As I look at this line more, I am liking our position more because it seems our camel is better able to defend our home traps without needing to immediately relocate than I anticipated. So I definitely don't fear this move any more than the simpler push to e3 anymore.
Regarding the simple push to e3, I don't fear it, but we can sidestep the issue with 3g De1nn Md2n Dd1n.
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arimaa_master
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Re: 2015 Move 3
« Reply #23 on: Jul 24th, 2015, 5:55pm » |
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on Jul 21st, 2015, 10:45pm, browni3141 wrote:
I think that it is too early to advance our elephant to the sixth rank when we may want to play the defensive e5ee later, and the dog flip is not much of a threat. Silver can reply g7s h7sss, and our elephant feels too far from f3.
If we move our camel west, we will have to advance our Hg2 very soon due to silver's threat of an EH attack, so I think it is a very good step to play right now. I like your move better if we substitute Hg2n for Ee5n.
However, I still have one problem with this new move. I do not like the Cc2w Md2w maneuver either because we are spending two steps which might not end up being very useful (Cc2w and re-filling c2 when the camel moves, which it likely will want to do soon)
I don't think the camel flip should be a concern if we advance it now. After
3g Md2n Dd1n De1n Hg2n
3s ed4w Md3n Md4n ec4e
4g Md5w Mc5s Hb3n Mc4s,
we have gained one free step towards our horse advance plan and I wouldn't consider our camel movement as negative. I think flipping the camel would be a small inaccuracy for silver allowing gold to equalize. We could even consider much more aggressive options like 4g Md5w Mc5w Hb3w Ee5n which could yield an edge if they work out tactically.
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Thanks - now I like 3g Md2n Dd1n De1n Hg2n best.
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deep_blue
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Re: 2015 Move 3
« Reply #24 on: Jul 27th, 2015, 3:13am » |
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The poll winner was 3g Md2n Dd1n De1n Hb3n.
Unfortunately this time only 13/22 people voted.
Results here http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_89dd6769b4dd0a8e
Or in case that link doesn't work anymore:
1. 3g Md2n Dd1n De1n Hb3n
2. 3g Md2n Dd1n De1n Hg2n
3. 3g Md2n Dd1n Hb3n Hg2n
4. 3g Md2n Dd1n De1n De2n
5. 3g Md2n Dd1n De1n Md3w
6. 3g Hb3n Hb4n Hb5w Ha5n
| 1. | 2. | 3. | 4. | 5. | 6. | | 1. | - | 8 | 11 | 8 | 10 | 11 | | 2. | 5 | - | 10 | 8 | 11 | 11 | | 3. | 1 | 3 | - | 6 | 8 | 9 | | 4. | 3 | 5 | 6 | - | 9 | 8 | | 5. | 2 | 2 | 3 | 1 | - | 6 | | 6. | 1 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 4 | - |
Don't ask me why 3. is better than 4. based on this matrix, not that it mattered.
Of 22 voters, 13 voted. The right to vote (those 22) had:
Algorias, arimaa_master, aurelian, browni3141, chessandgo, clyring, CraggyCornmeal, DeathCure, deep_blue, half_integer, Harren, harvestsnow, Hufflepup, ikalyoncu, Knedlik, phairland, RonWeasley, Samraku, SilverMitt, Skarn, supersamu, Therin8.
EDIT: Harvestsnow, thanks for pointing out. I messed that up.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 27th, 2015, 4:49pm by deep_blue » |
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clyring
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Re: 2015 Move 3
« Reply #25 on: Jul 27th, 2015, 6:32am » |
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on Jul 27th, 2015, 3:13am, deep_blue wrote:
Don't ask me why 3. is better than 4. based on this matrix, not that it mattered.
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The result link is very clear:
Quote:3. Tied:
3g Md2n Dd1n Hb3n Hg2n loses to 3g Md2n Dd1n De1n Hb3n by 11–1, loses to 3g Md2n Dd1n De1n Hg2n by 10–3
3g Md2n Dd1n De1n De2n loses to 3g Md2n Dd1n De1n Hb3n by 8–3, loses to 3g Md2n Dd1n De1n Hg2n by 8–5 |
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(...but the tie is arbitrarily decided in the order of the rows of the detailed table.)
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harvestsnow
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Re: 2015 Move 3
« Reply #26 on: Jul 27th, 2015, 2:45pm » |
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on Jul 27th, 2015, 3:13am, deep_blue wrote:Of 22 voters, 13 voted. The right to vote (those 22) had:
Algorias, arimaa_master, aurelian, browni3141, chessandgo, clyring, CraggyCornmeal, DeathCure, deep_blue, half_integer, Harren, harvestsnow, Hufflepup, ikalyoncu, Knedlik, PerkofBR, phairland, RonWeasley, Samraku, SilverMitt, Skarn, supersamu. |
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So Perk is back and Therin8 is already gone?
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PerkofBR
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Re: 2015 Move 3
« Reply #27 on: Jul 29th, 2015, 1:03pm » |
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Hello Mobsters!
I'm back, you can count me in for the next votation deep_blue.
Cheers!
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deep_blue
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Re: 2015 Move 3
« Reply #28 on: Jul 29th, 2015, 5:13pm » |
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on Jul 29th, 2015, 1:03pm, PerkofBR wrote:Hello Mobsters!
I'm back, you can count me in for the next votation deep_blue.
Cheers!
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Noted.
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Algorias
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Re: 2015 Move 3
« Reply #29 on: Aug 2nd, 2015, 10:18am » |
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I missed the last vote too since I was away for a week, but I'm back as well.
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