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chessandgo
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Re: 2015 Move 4
« Reply #15 on: Aug 9th, 2015, 12:50pm »
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4g Hg2n Hb4n Hb5w Ha5n
4s Md3e ed4s hb6s hb5s
5g Me3n Me4w Ee5w Md4w
looks very good for us
 
on Aug 8th, 2015, 7:52pm, half_integer wrote:

I am liking the 4g Hb4wnn Hg2n for the reasons given above.  I don't see any real danger for the western horse.  However, I do think the c3 trap looks weakly defended and worry that something like hb6ss rb8s x could put us in a race where we don't have the advantage.

 
Then our caMel moves to b3, H to b6 and our position is excellent?
 
on Aug 9th, 2015, 6:20am, clyring wrote:
4g Hb4n Rh2n Rh1n Hg2n
 
I don't much fear the hb6 advancing except possibly if we decide to pull a7 or something. Otherwise I'm not sure what you mean by the benefits of keeping our horse on the b-file. Feel free to elaborate.

 
Let's say  
4g Hg2n Hb4n Hb5w Ha5n
4s Md3e ed4s hh6s dd7s
and we have to choose between relocating the caMel west with:
5g Me3n Ee5w Me4w Md4w
and give silver the opportunity to attack g3 quickly with our Elephant one step further, for example:
5s ed3n mg6s mg5s hh5s
 
Or defend b3 with small pieces, in which case silver's horse can jump into b3 at any time. It would presumably not work right away, since the position is fairly symetric except that our caMel is closer to the west than silver's, but it means we have to keep at least as many pieces "in the west" as silver at all times. Having our Horse on b5 instead of a6 might make our central pieces more flexible?
« Last Edit: Aug 9th, 2015, 12:58pm by chessandgo » IP Logged

clyring
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Re: 2015 Move 4
« Reply #16 on: Aug 9th, 2015, 2:17pm »
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on Aug 9th, 2015, 12:50pm, chessandgo wrote:
Let's say  
4g Hg2n Hb4n Hb5w Ha5n
4s Md3e ed4s hh6s dd7s
and we have to choose between relocating the caMel west with:
5g Me3n Ee5w Me4w Md4w
and give silver the opportunity to attack g3 quickly with our Elephant one step further, for example:
5s ed3n mg6s mg5s hh5s
 
Or defend b3 with small pieces, in which case silver's horse can jump into b3 at any time. It would presumably not work right away, since the position is fairly symetric except that our caMel is closer to the west than silver's, but it means we have to keep at least as many pieces "in the west" as silver at all times. Having our Horse on b5 instead of a6 might make our central pieces more flexible?

Hmm, I considered this, but didn't think advancing pieces in the west was a problem for us.
on Aug 9th, 2015, 6:20am, clyring wrote:
I like advancing rabbit steps in the west, but I think we can't know which to play yet. If our camel is pushed east, then Rb1nn is the natural, efficient defending and developing move, (...)

As necessary we can play c2n c1n later for further defense. Our camel should probably not come west quickly in this line unless silver gives it a target to chase, though, and you might be right in that it is more costly for our camel to move east if we leave b3 open. (Incidentally, this would be less of a possible issue if we had Dc2 instead of Cc2.)
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deep_blue
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Re: 2015 Move 4
« Reply #17 on: Aug 10th, 2015, 12:35am »
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So far for the voting I would give the following choices:
4g Hb4n Hb5w Ha5n Hg2n (Ha6 Hg3)
4g Hb4n Hg2n Rh2n Rh1n
4g Md3w Mc3w Hb4n Hb5w (Mb3 Ha5)
 
Any others you think would be important? Hufflepup, you mentioned Md3e Me3e Mf3e, what would be your 4th step there?
 
I plan to start the voting in about 24h but give it much time on this move (at least 2 days, depends on when I have internet connection) since the candidate moves seem clear and so those who aren't sure can keep discussing. Wink
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Hufflepup
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Re: 2015 Move 4
« Reply #18 on: Aug 10th, 2015, 4:06pm »
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Quote:
Hufflepup, you mentioned Md3e Me3e Mf3e, what would be your 4th step there?

 
I prefer the plan to move the camel west to this move, so unless any one else wants to ropose a 4th step I wouldn't include it in the poll.
 
Quote:

Like for the previous move, if we are unable to decide whether going east or west is best with the caMel, then probably both are a loss of about a step when comparing to silver pushing our caMel either way.

 
This assumes silver will co-operate with our plan and pushes our camel where we want it to go.
 
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clyring
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Re: 2015 Move 4
« Reply #19 on: Aug 10th, 2015, 5:02pm »
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on Aug 8th, 2015, 5:11am, chessandgo wrote:
Like for the previous move, if we are unable to decide whether going east or west is best with the caMel, then probably both are a loss of about a step when comparing to silver pushing our caMel either way.

on Aug 10th, 2015, 4:06pm, Hufflepup wrote:

This assumes silver will co-operate with our plan and pushes our camel where we want it to go.

On the contrary, it explicitly assumes that  "...we are unable to decide whether going east or west is best with the caMel," ie that we believe moving the camel east or west are approximately equal in evaluation, and that we don't have the following:
[Just one wing that we would like our camel to occupy eventually, with the other not only infinitesimally inferior, but so much worse for us for silver to be able to justify spending steps moving it there on our behalf.]
 
If you or anyone else disagrees with that assumption, please feel free to voice such.
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SilverMitt
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Re: 2015 Move 4
« Reply #20 on: Aug 10th, 2015, 5:16pm »
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It's unlikely that the silver elephant would push our camel to c3.  When it advances further, it would either plant itself on d3 and push the camel to e3, or come directly to e3 without pushing the camel.  In that sense, going west with our camel only commits us to the choice, but does not lose time (but we'd be behind by a step or two due to the initial setup).
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half_integer
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Re: 2015 Move 4
« Reply #21 on: Aug 10th, 2015, 8:52pm »
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If the H->a6 H->g3 move is likely to be a favorite, I think it is worthwhile to try and determine the best reply and the refutation to it.  Anyone want to expand on what has already been said, and generate other replies?
 
edit: when I wrote that, my browser had not reloaded the page with the page 2 discussion.  chessandgo has already addressed the possibilities to some extent.  Keep analyzing and carry on.
« Last Edit: Aug 10th, 2015, 8:59pm by half_integer » IP Logged
deep_blue
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Re: 2015 Move 4
« Reply #22 on: Aug 15th, 2015, 9:54am »
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Detailed vote report:
Allowed voters: 23
Votes: 12 // Sad hardly more than the half, I hope that trend doesn't go on...
Here's the link: http://civs.cs.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/results.pl?id=E_19c493146b7d57d4
 
1. 4g Hb4n Hb5w Ha5n Hg2n (Ha6 Hg3)
2. 4g Hb4n Hg2n Rh2n Rh1n
3. 4g Md3w Mc3w Hb4n Hb5w (Mb3 Ha5)
 
1.2.3.
1.--811
2.2--9
3.11--

 
Voting rights had:
Algorias, arimaa_master, aurelian, browni3141, chessandgo, clyring, CraggyCornmeal, DeathCure, deep_blue, half_integer, Harren, harvestsnow, Hufflepup, ikalyoncu, Knedlik, PerkofBR, phairland, RonWeasley, Samraku, SilverMitt, Skarn, supersamu, Therin8.
« Last Edit: Aug 15th, 2015, 10:01am by deep_blue » IP Logged
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