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Title: Move 34 Post by RonWeasley on Apr 8th, 2010, 4:54am Silver plays 33s dc6e hd4e Re5w he4n. Obvious threat is getting the d5 rabbit pushed to c6 by the horse. My first reaction is 34g Dg6n Re2e he5s Ee6s I don't see a good goal attack through the g-file anymore. I worry about a silver attack on the east with silver e pushing gold H to f3. That's why I went Re2e instead of Re2n. So my plan is to hostage silver horse. |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by Hippo on Apr 8th, 2010, 1:19pm So Fritz blocked all the goal attacks. My instinct is to "frame" the f7 rabbit (with Rf2) and attack the h4 rabbit on following turns abandoning our rabbit. But attacking the horse is not bad idea preventing immediate rabbit capture. I am not sure with the dog north step. Silver should probably prevent the horse capture and does not have free 3 steps to capture the dog. Dog on g6 prevents h rabbit from reaching g6. I would move h2 rabbit to h3 instead. |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by Sconibulus on Apr 8th, 2010, 8:03pm Fritz could capture the dog, leading to horse hostage rather than horse capture I think, which would pull our elephant out of attack position. Also it looks like it might lead to silver goal attack on g. The line I'm looking at is 34s ef5n ef6s Dg6wx ef5s 35g hf4s Ef5s hf3s Ef4s 35s rh4s ef4e ef4w hg3n What about just throwing the silver horse into the f6 trap? It doesn't seem to accomplish all that much, but it would save our rabbit for at least a little while. |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by Hannoskaj on Apr 9th, 2010, 2:33am Ron's move is also the one I came up with when looking at the position. Not that I am absolutely thrilled with it, but I have trouble finding anything else interesting. on 04/08/10 at 20:03:19, Sconibulus wrote:
That looks like a bad idea. Strategically, this is simply giving a dog hostage with dg6g7 Hf6g6. Tactically, Silver may instead take the Hg3 and the h4 rabbit would probably be faster than our Re5. |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by Nombril on Apr 9th, 2010, 3:47am Before reading the discussion, I had also settled on 34g Dg6n Re2e he5s Ee6s. So we are up to 3 "first instincts" on that one. I'm certainly open to other options, but none of the other current suggestions seem as strong. on 04/08/10 at 13:19:03, Hippo wrote:
I looked at this as well. I don't have any specific lines, but it seemed we would have to give up the rabbit "frame" to make progress anywhere else. It was pretty slow, and in the meantime silver could lead a swarm with his horse at c3. |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by Hippo on Apr 9th, 2010, 6:31am on 04/08/10 at 20:03:19, Sconibulus wrote:
Oh yes, stupid me ... :( ignore it please. |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by chessandgo on Apr 9th, 2010, 7:39am How about 34g Re2e Rf2n Rf3n Rd2e? If silver capture the rabbit 34s Rd5w he5w Rc5n Rc6x hd5w we get a Rabbit on g5 35g Re2n Re3n Rf4e Rg4n Is there a good way for silver to block this Rabbit? Flipping it to e5 doesn't work. Pushing it to h5 leaves the f-file open for the Re4 (after a rf7 capture). EDIT: ah oops, 34s Rf4s ef5s ef4w he5e. Hmmm. We should have played this 34g on 33g maybe. |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by chessandgo on Apr 9th, 2010, 11:21am or maybe 34g Re2n Rd2e Re3e Rf3n 34s Rf4s ef5s ef4w he5e 35g Ee6s Rf3n Re2e Rf2n 35s dd6n Rd5n Rd6w Rc6x dd7s 36g Ee5n hf5w Rf4n Rf3n ?? |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by chessandgo on Apr 9th, 2010, 11:23am What is our plan after 34g he5s Ee6s Dg6n Re2n/e 34s dc4e he4e hf4e hg4n ? On first sight I don't see a way to get silver's dog without losing ours. |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by Nombril on Apr 9th, 2010, 6:42pm on 04/09/10 at 11:23:57, chessandgo wrote:
35g ra4e Ca3n rb4e Ca4e Or start working on the west side now: 34g ra4e Ca3n Re2 e/n (+1, maybe Rh2 or Ra2 n) It feels like we are in a tough position to advance rabbits - Fritzlein has a head start in this. I know going for goal is more important than taking material, but it seems we have too many pieces tied down goal defense. |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by RonWeasley on Apr 12th, 2010, 6:16am on 04/09/10 at 11:23:57, chessandgo wrote:
Maybe ... 34g he5s Ee6s Dg6n Re2e 34s dc4e he4e hf4e hg4n 35g Ee5n dd6n Ee6w Dg7n 35s ef5s ef4e eg4w Hg3n 36g Rd5e Re5n Re6n Dg8w 36s rb8e rc8e Re7s dd7e 37g rf7s rf6x Df8s Ed6s Ed5e 37s rh6s rh4s rh3w hg5n 38g Rh2w Re6e Ee5e Rd2e ? |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by RonWeasley on Apr 12th, 2010, 9:40am on 04/09/10 at 11:23:57, chessandgo wrote:
Or ... 34g Dg6n he5s Ee6s Re2e 34s dc4e he4e hf4e hg4n 35g Ee5s Db3n Rd2e Re2n 35s Rd5w dd6s dd4s dd3s 36g Ee4w Ed4s dd5s Dg7n 36s ef5s ef4e Hg3w eg4s 37g Rf2e cb5w Db4n Ca3e 37s eg3n eg4w ef4w dd4n 38g Hf3e rb6e rc6x Db5n Ra2n ? |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by RonWeasley on Apr 13th, 2010, 5:10am Looks like we've got two serious moves: 1) 34g he5s Ee6s Dg6n Re2e and 2) 34g Re2e Rf2n Rf3n Rd2e Get ready to vote unless you want to try for 6 voice votes right now. I vote for #1. |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by chessandgo on Apr 13th, 2010, 9:10am on 04/09/10 at 18:42:15, Nombril wrote:
Good point! |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by Nombril on Apr 13th, 2010, 10:23am +1 for choice 1. |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by 722caasi on Apr 13th, 2010, 8:54pm Vote 1 |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by Hippo on Apr 14th, 2010, 12:00am I suppose you have analysed it well that first move leads to 'even trade'. It will improve our position so +1 for 1. |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by chessandgo on Apr 14th, 2010, 1:47pm on 04/12/10 at 06:16:16, RonWeasley wrote:
I don't understand this one, we just have an E+R attack around c6, with a Dog which might come as back up, for a Dog hostage on g7? on 04/12/10 at 09:40:18, RonWeasley wrote:
Ok, we go for the dog trade. This looks fine. I'm voting #2 nonetheless. Strong goal attack and easy game. |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by RonWeasley on Apr 15th, 2010, 4:44am TheMob selects 34g he5s Ee6s Dg6n Re2e by a 5-1 vote. (I think we all know who that one is.) Now that the Owl Mixer is on, it's going to be harder than ever to spend time on this game. With less than 3 days time reserve, it's going to take our firmest resolve to see this through. Who's with me?!! |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by chessandgo on Apr 15th, 2010, 10:16am on 04/15/10 at 04:44:21, RonWeasley wrote:
Hehe :) I haven't been available for much arimaa these last weeks as I switched back to poker, but I'll try to spend more time on the Mob game for the next moves. If we can figure out silver's next move we might get the opportunity to rebuilt our timebank. So 34s dc4e he4e hf4e hg4n was the move that struck my eyes first, after which we can go after the dd4 (for example), but 34s ef5s rh6w Rd5w dd6s also looks possible. I don't see any goal prospect for us, and I'm not sure to which extent we can attack silver's center pieces as silver can try to cover f3 and c3. This said I'm very bad at guessing Karl's moves, we usually never consider each other's move ... :-/ |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by Nombril on Apr 16th, 2010, 5:20pm Rather than trying to work out the tactics for the next move, is it worth evaluating the various longer term goals we should be working towards? It seems that we often look for the best 1 turn tactical strike, but are approaching it without agreeing on the objective. For example, on this move, I was worried about continuing the goal attack with the rabbit advance because we didn't have any heavy pieces available to follow the rabbits. But maybe this is an unfounded fear, and a rabbit swarm would be able to get by the defenders... Here is my take on the position...after co-commentating a few games I know that others' ideas might be very different from my own, so hopefully everyone else can comment as well... f3: I am very worried about f3 and rh4 - it seems like it would take only a move or two for Fritzlein to pull our horse and advance that rabbit. Do we expect to keep Fritzlein busy enough in other areas that he doesn't have time to go after f3? Or should we be advancing Rh2 with a spare step and then using all four steps to pull the r to g4 and put our R on h4? Or something else? c3: I'd love to capture this advanced rabbit if only to free up our extra cat for more action. It seems to be the better defended side, more pieces being better than a stronger piece in this situation. Is the "best" approach to take 2 steps to push the rabbit sideways, ??? to fill the other side, and frame the rabbit? Or do we need to capture or chase away the dog first? goal attack: I'm terrible at this, it took me 70+ moves to beat Clueless, and I could have beat Marwin 35 moves before I actually did. So I would be happy to hear some strategies for what could be possible to force a rabbit to goal. Any other aspect of the position we should discuss? Are we winning? PS: Ron - to answer your question - I'm with you!!!! Except in one of the "owl" games that I expect to loose... PPS - Jean - When you said "EDIT: ah oops, 34s Rf4s ef5s ef4w he5e. Hmmm. We should have played this 34g on 33g maybe." I took this to mean that you thought it was too late to advance rabbits. But now I see you meant that we should play it now, better late than never. I think the rest of us should have analyzed this move more to see if the goal attack would have held up. |
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Title: Re: Move 34 Post by chessandgo on Apr 17th, 2010, 11:52am yeah, I just meant that we wouldn't have to think about this 34s if we had played this move earlier, silver's center horse was closer to the action after the central "undo". We don't have to follow-up rabbits with pieces if they can't be blocked :) and for the moment (well before our last move) silver only has his elephant (and partially his horse) to defend on this wing, not enough to stop two Rabbits supported by the Elephant. Now that we've gone after silver's horse, we are commited to capturing pieces in our hometraps, so I do think working out short term (capture) tactics is worth more than working out goal threats (for once ^^). And I think the focus is on the depleted eastern wing, spending time moving the a3 Cat would be losing too much time; as you said, silver has strong goal threats on the east if his elephant gets time to attack, conversely we have strong goal threats on the east if we advance Rabbits first. And yeah, we should be clearly winning, even though the position is still not easy. |
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