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        Team Games >> 2009 One vs TheMob >> Move 36
        
(Message started by: RonWeasley on May 10^th, 2010, 5:35am)

Title: Move 36
Post by RonWeasley on May 10^th, 2010, 5:35am

Sometime Friday, 35s dc4e Rc5s dd5w he4s

I was looking at 36g Ed6s Dg7e Dh7s Dh6s. This gives the immediate threat against the d4 dog and the strategics threat of 37g rh4w Dh5s dh4n Rh3n. But I don't have an answer to 36s he3s Rf2s he2e rg6s.

So I'm leaning to a safer 36g Ed6s Ed5e Ee5s Rh1n.

We should plan on voting Thursday so we can move Friday.

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by jdb on May 10^th, 2010, 12:01pm

Using 3 steps to put the elephant on e4 is probably best. The question is what is the best use of the other step?

Moving the cat on c2 north works nicely. It is immune from capture and Fritz will spend a week trying to figure out how to capture it.

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by Sconibulus on May 10^th, 2010, 12:29pm

I like the look of Ca3e for the final step, and agree E should come to e4

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by Hippo on May 10^th, 2010, 2:26pm

I was considering the last step cc2->c3 to be a joke at first, but it prevents the c5 dog comming to c4. So the dog cannot prevent capturing at c3. Unfortunately the cat itself prevents that (unless silver moves to d3 or pulls the c4 rabbit).

Seems 36s hf2 attacking Hg3 and goaling in east would be such big threat that any dog/cat capture threat at c6 or c3 trap would be pointless. So I agree Ee4 looks good.

My instincts for silvers reply are eg3 Hf3 xxx with potential threat of rh4 advance. This makes Rh1n step valuable.

So 37g (with Rh3) could be he2 Ee3 He4 with nice position.

I could not see good reply of silver to 36g Ee4 Rh3.
... advancing e to f2 seems dangerous due to h file counter threats.

Letting Rf2 without moving Hf3 allows capturing at c3.

May be 36s dc5-c4 Rc4-c3 xxx xxx (Ra7-c7) swarming the c3 trap?
37g Db6?

So unless there are new bright ideas +1 to 36g Ee4 Rh2.

corrected

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by Nombril on May 10^th, 2010, 8:41pm

I don't think Ron's first idea was all bad...with
36g Ed6s Dg7e Dh7s Dh6s
36s he3s Rf2s he2e rg6s
What about
37g Rd2n Cc2e Rd3e Ca3e
or
37g Ca3eeee

I assume Hippo is currently for 36g Ed6s Ed5e Ee5s Rh1n (Rh2 not Rh3). This looks "safe" as well, my only misgivings about this move are that it seems the two silver dogs can make captures at c3 impossible, and then what route forward do we have? But probably there is time to eventually go up the h file with our g7 dog coming back to move that silver rabbit out of the way. And I guess you could say we wasted some steps on our previous moves, except we hopefully have forced Fritz to push our rabbit to c3 instead of capturing it at c6!

Not sure if this is too daring... following through on the c6 attack...

36g cb5w Db4n rb6w Db5n

seems to work for me. But maybe I am too optimistic. It seems to force a silver dog to guard c6, allowing us to capture at c3 after our E comes back south.

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by jdb on May 11^th, 2010, 2:23am

Rh1n looks good, but Rd2e is another way to add protection on the right flank. It has the advantage of placing an extra piece on that side of the board.

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by Nombril on May 11^th, 2010, 3:23am

With 36g Ed6s Ed5e Ee5s +1step

Is the expectation to hostage the h on e2? If so, Rd2e slows this down.

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by Hippo on May 11^th, 2010, 5:55am

on 05/10/10 at 20:41:14, Nombril wrote:

I don't think Ron's first idea was all bad...with
36g Ed6s Dg7e Dh7s Dh6s
36s he3s Rf2s he2e rg6s
What about
37g Rd2n Cc2e Rd3e Ca3e
or
37g Ca3eeee

As gold I don't like possitions with opponent's horse on f2 dog on e3 and phant nearby (what could be after 37s).

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by RonWeasley on May 11^th, 2010, 5:58am

on 05/10/10 at 20:41:14, Nombril wrote:

I don't think Ron's first idea was all bad...with
36g Ed6s Dg7e Dh7s Dh6s
36s he3s Rf2s he2e rg6s
What about
37g Rd2n Cc2e Rd3e Ca3e
or
37g Ca3eeee

Thank you for the responses. I like that 36g now.

In response to the dog push to b6, I worry about silver horse to f2. I think silver wins the goal race.

After 36g E->e4 and then Cc2n, We need to spend a step on 37g to protect the cat, so I like Rh1n instead. Ca3e is OK, but I was hoping to pull the rabbit with it.

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by Hippo on May 11^th, 2010, 6:03am

on 05/10/10 at 20:41:14, Nombril wrote:

36g cb5w Db4n rb6w Db5n

seems to work for me. But maybe I am too optimistic. It seems to force a silver dog to guard c6, allowing us to capture at c3 after our E comes back south.

What after 36s ra4b3 Rc4b4 dc5c4?
Seems to me silver goal attacks on both wings while gold has forces out of the battle. May be I am over pessimistic, but it seems to me it would be difficult situation for us.

So I remain on 36g Ee4 Rh2 so far.

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by RonWeasley on May 11^th, 2010, 6:13am

on 05/11/10 at 05:55:02, Hippo wrote:

As gold I don't like possitions with opponent's horse on f2 dog on e3 and phant nearby (what could be after 37s).

On the following move gold plays 38g rh4w Dh5s Dh4n Rh3n. I think the silver e needs to come back and defend this or else lose. That lets the gold E mop up.

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by Hippo on May 11^th, 2010, 10:54am

on 05/11/10 at 06:13:10, RonWeasley wrote:

On the following move gold plays 38g rh4w Dh5s Dh4n Rh3n. I think the silver e needs to come back and defend this or else lose. That lets the gold E mop up.

39s ef4 Hf3x with g goal threat faster than h goal threat

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by Nombril on May 11^th, 2010, 11:34am

on 05/11/10 at 06:03:12, Hippo wrote:

36g cb5w Db4n rb6w Db5n
36s ra4b3 Rc4b4 dc5c4
37g rb3e Ca3e Rb4ne

I agree that with your concerns! But the reason I like this is that we are the only side in control of a trap and threatening captures. And I don't expect to win a goal race here. I expect sometime soon to make the move E to e4, but first we have positioned a dog at b6 while we have the time. I think having our dog at b6 prevents silver from having both dogs around c3.

(With h to f2, we would bring E to e3.)
____________

For the Ron and Hippo discussion, I think this is a summary:

36g Ed6s Dg7e Dh7s Dh6s
36s he3s Rf2s he2e rg6s
37g Ca3eeee
37s ef4w dd4s Ce3s dd3e

I think a better move for us has us in a good position:
38g Ed5ss de3e Ed3e

____________

I think we are still winning with any of these 3 moves.
A: Ed6s Ed5e Ee5s Rh1n
B: Ed6s Dg7e Dh7s Dh6s
C: cb5w Db4n rb6w Db5n

Is there agreement on the +1 step for A being Rh1n? Did anyone (or anybot) have additional 36g suggestions?

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by RonWeasley on May 11^th, 2010, 11:47am

on 05/11/10 at 10:54:48, Hippo wrote:

39s ef4 Hf3x with g goal threat faster than h goal threat

Oops. Yes, you are right.

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by Hippo on May 11^th, 2010, 12:46pm

on 05/11/10 at 11:34:29, Nombril wrote:

36g Ed6s Dg7e Dh7s Dh6s
36s he3s Rf2s he2e rg6s
37g Ca3eeee
37s ef4w dd4s Ce3s dd3e

I think a better move for us has us in a good position:
38g Ed5ss de3e Ed3e

I agree after that 38g this does not look as bad as I expected, but it seemed to me we would lost f3 trap controll. (38s dg4 rf4? or rather ef5 df4?)

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by Hippo on May 11^th, 2010, 1:06pm

on 05/11/10 at 11:34:29, Nombril wrote:

36g cb5w Db4n rb6w Db5n
36s ra4b3 Rc4b4 dc5c4
37g rb3e Ca3e Rb4ne

Wow I have missed the Rb4 advance. It looks dangerous even after 2nd look! Looks we have to look for better 36s.

Or may be
37s rc8 he4 re3?
Or rather
37s rc8 rd3 dc3 dd4c4? ... no
37s rc8 rd3 ef3 xxx (cb5?) ... I am not good at goal attacks :(

What would quad think about this race?

Hmmm, may be it is OK for us, but it is so sharp that I cannot be sure with that.
36s ra4b3 Rc4c3 dc5c4?

So
A: Ed6s Ed5e Ee5s Rh1n
B: Ed6s Dg7e Dh7s Dh6s
C: cb5w Db4n rb6w Db5n

I consider A and C opened, B seems not to be OK.
A seems to be safe variant while C creating sharp positions to be analysed carefully.

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by 722caasi on May 11^th, 2010, 3:33pm

I think Ed6s Ed5e Ee5s Rh1n is best, because cb5w Db4n rb6w Db5n may have a problem that we can't see because it is too complicated, but we know Ed6s Ed5e Ee5s Rh1n will work.

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by Nombril on May 11^th, 2010, 6:57pm

Tonight I'm feeling like a safe move, and support
A: Ed6s Ed5e Ee5s Rh1n

I'm counting 3 votes for that one (722caasi, Hippo, and myself). Others have supported the first three steps, but have suggested alternate 4th steps.

I guess another 4th step would be Dg7e.

Can we still start the "B" moves after this one? I think if we end up with the ehd all around c6, we'll have a tough time keeping anything between that r and the goal.

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by chessandgo on May 12^th, 2010, 3:13am

How about 36g Hg3s Rh3w Rg3n Hg2n? I don't think silver can afford to move a dog to g5 (but perhaps the horse?). The other logical 36s move would be to flip the Rg4 to f3, but the good thing would be that on next move we could reestablish the Rg4 position and silver wouldn't be able to flip again, like:

36s ef4w Rg4w Rf4s ee4e
37g Ed6s Ed5e Ee5s Rh1n
37s Rc4s dc5s dd4s he3s
38g Hg3s Rf3e Rg3n Hg2n

Also maybe

36g Hg3s Rh3w Rg3n Hg2n
36s ef4s Hg3s ef3e rh4s
37g Ed6e Ee6s Ee5e Ef5s

And the h to g5 move, perhaps:

36s he3n he4n he5e hf5e
37g Dg7e Ed6s dd4s Ed5s

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by jdb on May 12^th, 2010, 5:27am

on 05/12/10 at 03:13:30, chessandgo wrote:

36g Hg3s Rh3w Rg3n Hg2n
36s dd4e ef4s Hg3s ef3e

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by RonWeasley on May 12^th, 2010, 5:30am

on 05/12/10 at 03:13:30, chessandgo wrote:

How about 36g Hg3s Rh3w Rg3n Hg2n?

This looks good to me in that it gives gold initiative on the east side, like what I wanted with bringing the dog back to h5. I think the best response is to bring the silver horse to g5. Then, as C&G suggests we play a home game while silver must babysit the advanced east rabbit. At this point, any rabbit gold inches forward in the center is a threat to the thin silver defense. A good strategic position.

When I first looked at this, I worried about the silver h rabbit breaking through, but I don't see how anymore.

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by RonWeasley on May 12^th, 2010, 5:37am

on 05/12/10 at 05:27:42, jdb wrote:

36g Hg3s Rh3w Rg3n Hg2n
36s dd4e ef4s Hg3s ef3e

37g Ed6e Ee6s Ee5e Ef5s seems OK.

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by Hippo on May 12^th, 2010, 10:32am

on 05/12/10 at 03:13:30, chessandgo wrote:

36g Hg3s Rh3w Rg3n Hg2n
36s he3n he4n he5e hf5e
37g Dg7e Ed6s dd4s Ed5s

Seems
37g Dg7e Ed6s cb5w Db4n is even better.
(I am not sure as capturing could be easily prevented if at least one our defensive step is forced)

I like this 36g Rg4

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by Nombril on May 12^th, 2010, 11:24am

I like getting a rabbit on g4 as well. If the 36s is to put the silver horse over to g5... we had struggled earlier to keep the h from our D. Now we are expecting it... a bit ironic. But it does look like the fastest way to get some goal potential again.

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by Hippo on May 12^th, 2010, 10:32pm

on 05/12/10 at 11:24:27, Nombril wrote:

Yes, but now his dogs are more vulnerable.
Yes I would prefere his horse hostaged with our rabbit advanced, but with his phant occupying g3 we would have no more opportunities to flip the rabbit.
I suppose hg5 as strongest answer. Are we OK with it?

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by chessandgo on May 13^th, 2010, 5:09am

on 05/12/10 at 05:37:50, RonWeasley wrote:

37g Ed6e Ee6s Ee5e Ef5s seems OK.

Yeah, or even Rc4->d5 maybe (can't see a way to make a difference with this though). After 37g Ed6e Ee6s Ee5e Ef5s silver can flip the Rg4 to h3, maybe that was the point of jdb's different dog step on 36s.

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by RonWeasley on May 14^th, 2010, 4:25am

With 8 votes, moving the R->g4 wins 5-2 over E->e4, R->h2. For someone, it must have been a tie.

We gained only 7 hours of reserve, so let's stay alert.

Title: Re: Move 36
Post by Hippo on May 14^th, 2010, 6:02am

on 05/14/10 at 04:25:17, RonWeasley wrote:

With 8 votes, moving the R->g4 wins 5-2 over E->e4, R->h2. For someone, it must have been a tie.

And I know for who :)