Author |
Topic: 2012 Arimaa Challenge (Read 7850 times) |
|
thomastanck
Forum Senior Member
6366th Person to register!
Gender: 
Posts: 30
|
 |
Re: 2012 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #15 on: Mar 13th, 2012, 1:20am » |
 Quote  Modify
|
and hanzack's name isn't Tarou Asou either, I think it'd be better to just have him stay anonymous.
|
|
 IP Logged |
Thomas Tan, a very bad Arimaa player.
|
|
|
Swynndla
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #1821
Posts: 235
|
|
Re: 2012 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #16 on: Mar 13th, 2012, 5:34am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Mar 12th, 2012, 11:23am, rbarreira wrote:| As I said in the chatroom, that's an incredibly strong lineup of challenge defenders. The last time all defenders were in the top 10 was 2006. |
|
Maybe it's a sign that the bots have gotten so strong that there needs to be defenders of this caliber to defend the challenge. 
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Hippo
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #4450
Gender:
Posts: 883
|
|
Re: 2012 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #17 on: Mar 13th, 2012, 11:07am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Mar 12th, 2012, 11:23am, rbarreira wrote:| As I said in the chatroom, that's an incredibly strong lineup of challenge defenders. The last time all defenders were in the top 10 was 2006. |
|
Yes, I would expect to use 1st, 2nd and 4th of the WC as a last resort in a case challenge seems to be almost over ... we have 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020 in front of us.
It would be hard to create stronger teams for these years.
It would be bad for arimaa to lose the challenge this year, but will we be able to follow with consistent conditions? What if the next year the top 2 humans would not be able for defense and the bot win. How would we think about it?
Never mind the decision was made and it's fully in Omar's hands to chose the defenders. ... I again hope we had time at least till 2015 even when it contradicts what I have written previous year.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Adanac
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #892
Gender:
Posts: 635
|
|
Re: 2012 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #18 on: Mar 13th, 2012, 11:40am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Mar 13th, 2012, 11:07am, Hippo wrote:It would be bad for arimaa to lose the challenge this year, but will we be able to follow with consistent conditions? What if the next year the top 2 humans would not be able for defense and the bot win. How would we think about it?
|
|
Another strange situation would be Chessandgo playing the screening games in some future year, winning all 4 games, but then the three human defenders all lose their match in the Arimaa Challenge. I wonder if in the future the screening games should just be 1 game against each bot so that humans aren't demonstrating the ability to win 4/4 before the Arimaa Challenge even begins. It seems to defeat the whole purpose of the AC 
A different solution is to change the challenge games to 1 minute/move. Then even if a human player wins all 4 screening games the Arimaa Challenge still has full legitimacy because the screening games weren't played at the "official" time control. That would probably encourage more people to play the screening bots, too.
|
| « Last Edit: Mar 13th, 2012, 11:46am by Adanac » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Swynndla
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #1821
Posts: 235
|
|
Re: 2012 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #19 on: Mar 13th, 2012, 3:10pm » |
Quote Modify
|
I'm predicting the defenders will win all non-handicap games, and it will be such a thrashing that we'll all be wondering just how close the bots really are to taking the challenge. I'm not saying the defenders should be a weaker lineup at all - I'm just making a prediction. 
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
tharkun
Forum Senior Member
Arimaa player #7288
Gender:
Posts: 29
|
|
Re: 2012 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #20 on: Mar 13th, 2012, 3:22pm » |
Quote Modify
|
I'm not so sure about briareus... But I do not fancy marwin's chances should it win the screening.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
mistre
Forum Guru
Gender:
Posts: 553
|
|
Re: 2012 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #21 on: Mar 13th, 2012, 3:41pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Prediction:
Briareus wins screening and then shocks with 2 wins in Challenge. Of course neither are vs. Chessandgo...
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
aaaa
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #958
Posts: 768
|
|
Re: 2012 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #22 on: Mar 13th, 2012, 6:46pm » |
Quote Modify
|
I have two questions:
- How far into the human championship were the defenders picked?
- What reassured Omar that hanzack won't falsely resign his games?
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Adanac
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #892
Gender:
Posts: 635
|
|
Re: 2012 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #23 on: Mar 13th, 2012, 8:18pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Mar 13th, 2012, 6:46pm, aaaa wrote:I have two questions:
- How far into the human championship were the defenders picked?
- What reassured Omar that hanzack won't falsely resign his games?
|
|
When Omar asked me in past years, it was usually in early or mid-February.
Notice that Omar selected hanzack in the same year as chessandgo . So even if hanzack loses, it doesn't affect the Arimaa Challenge. And the results of this year's Challenge will affect his decisions in future years. Hanzack has been taking all of his World Championship games seriously for the past 2 years, and I'm sure he'll give his best effort in the AC. I'm expecting him to win his match, with a good chance at 3-0.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
omar
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2
Gender:
Posts: 1003
|
|
Re: 2012 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #24 on: Mar 13th, 2012, 11:59pm » |
Quote Modify
|
I usually like to have one very strong player (like chessandgo, Fritzlein or Adanac), and two rising star type players who have not played in the AC before. Since Fritzlein and Adanac have played in recent AC, I want to let chessandgo have a chance. Nombril and hanzack haven't played before and are definitely rising stars.
I asked hanzack not resign in his WC games and he as cooperated, so I trust he will cooperate in the AC as well.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Hippo
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #4450
Gender:
Posts: 883
|
|
Re: 2012 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #25 on: Mar 15th, 2012, 2:23am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Mar 13th, 2012, 11:59pm, omar wrote:I usually like to have one very strong player (like chessandgo, Fritzlein or Adanac), and two rising star type players who have not played in the AC before. Since Fritzlein and Adanac have played in recent AC, I want to let chessandgo have a chance. Nombril and hanzack haven't played before and are definitely rising stars.
I asked hanzack not resign in his WC games and he as cooperated, so I trust he will cooperate in the AC as well. |
|
OK, this point of view explains it well. And according the screening games I am not afraid of humanity being defeated this year. Max, ocmiente, Harren overplayed them easily ... I myself was much more frustrated by the game length than the playing strength of the bots.
Definitely this is not wise to beleive in fast goal attack or any races (capture/goal/or even mixed).
This is where the alpha-beta bots are amazing.
But keeping good piece allignment and key squares guarant there would be captures nonetheless to tactics and finally win on depleted board by any means.
Restricting bot's elephant mobility helps a lot, as well as space advantage whenever there is safe way to advance.
... of course these are general advices what could be summarised as ... play Fritzlein style.
|
| « Last Edit: Mar 15th, 2012, 2:30am by Hippo » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Eltripas
Forum Guru
Meh-he-kah-naw
Gender:
Posts: 225
|
|
Re: 2012 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #26 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 3:43pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Mar 13th, 2012, 3:41pm, mistre wrote:Prediction:
Briareus wins screening and then shocks with 2 wins in Challenge. Of course neither are vs. Chessandgo... |
|
So you are pretty much predicting that Nombril will lose his mini-match or that Hanzack won't take his games seriously, Hanzack is the best bot basher around and almost as good if not as good as C&G, if he takes his games seriously there is no chance he will lose.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
mistre
Forum Guru
Gender:
Posts: 553
|
|
Re: 2012 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #27 on: Mar 17th, 2012, 9:27pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Ok, here is my prediction by player:
Chessandgo - 3-0
Hanzack - 2-0
Nombril - 2-1
Omar subbing for Hanzack - 0-1
Seriously, you are probably right, neither Hanzack or Chessandgo should lose a game and I give Nombril 50-50 odds of going undefeated.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
|
|
Re: 2012 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #28 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 2:08pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Mar 13th, 2012, 1:20am, thomastanck wrote:| and hanzack's name isn't Tarou Asou either, I think it'd be better to just have him stay anonymous. |
|
QFT. Omar, if hanzack had given his name as "Omar Syed", would you go around saying "Omar Syed is defending the Challenge."?
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
|
|
Re: 2012 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #29 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 2:59pm » |
Quote Modify
|
I will update bot performance here as I have time. (Sorry about my complete absence last week.)
Year Pairs Decisive Winner / Score / Perf Loser / Score / Perf
---- ----- -------- --------------------- --------------------
2007 12 . 2 . bomb / 2 / 2087 . Zombie / 0 / 1876
2008 16 . 7 . bomb / 6 / 1918 . sharp / 1 / 1576
2009 23 . 7 clueless / 5 / 1910 . GnoBot / 2 / 1792
2010 25 . 11 marwin / 6 / 2065 clueless / 5 / 1960
2011 40 . 11 marwin / 6 / 2110 . sharp / 5 / 2109
2012 33 . 7 briareus / 5 / 2232 . marwin / 2 / 2128
So far briareus is 14-4 for a performance of 2181 and marwin is 9-8 for a performance of 1955. This just shows how much variability there is in a small number of games; it seems highly unlikely that marwin is weaker than last year. I hope we get 40 completed pairs again this year!
[EDIT]
Now briareus is 16-6 for a performance of 2196 and marwin is 11-9 for a performance of 1969. Harren and Adanac completed their respective sweeps, which would have taken briareus down a peg but for my loss.  Briareus has opened a 2.5-game lead over marwin, which looks huge, but recall last year when sharp dashed out to a similar early lead over marwn. We all thought sharp was invincible, but marwin came back to win the screening. Will history repeat itself?
[EDIT]
Strangely, the six games since last update all involved briareus. Briareus went 5-1, improving its record to 21-7, increasing its lead over marwin to 3.5 games, and increasing its performance rating to 2214.
[EDIT]
Mawin has come roaring back since last update, going 6-1 with its only loss to me, while briareus lost the only game it played, to browni3141, rated 1830. Briareus is now 21-8 while marwin is 17-10. Briareus' performance rating dipped to 2173 while marwin's shot up to 2086. In the only statistic that actually matters, marwin now trails by only 1.5 games. With one week of screening left, it's still anybody's match.
[EDIT]
The bots are 9-0 since last update, bringing briareus to 25-8 with performance rating 2204 and marwin to 22-10 with performance rating 2113. With just a couple of days left in the screening, Briareus's lead of 1.5 games is going to hold up, especially if nobody can beat either bot!
[EDIT]
The bots finish on a 14-1 run, with briareus going 8-0 to close out with an overall record of 33-8 and a performance of 2232. Marwin finishes 28-11 with a performance of 2128, just a touch higher than last year. Unlike the photo-finishes in 2010 and 2011, this year had a clear winner. The bot that gave humanity the most fits was clearly briareus. Congratulations rbarriera!
|
| « Last Edit: Mar 31st, 2012, 10:13pm by Fritzlein » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
|
Home
Help
Search
Members
Login
Register
Reply
Notify of replies
Send Topic
Print