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   Author  Topic: Gauging Level of Interest:  May-Dec Match Tourney  (Read 7616 times)
Nombril
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Re: Gauging Level of Interest:  May-Dec Match Tour
« Reply #15 on: Mar 8th, 2012, 11:19pm »
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Regarding the 48 hour tournament:
 
If you want "official" event games, the Swiss tournaments I ran last year (? maybe 2 now ?) allowed people to drop and enter over the course of the tournament.  It was about 8 hours, to cover Europe and US times.  I believe it is aaaa 's contribution to the tournament scheduling tool.  I scheduled a new round every 60 minutes, it was 30s games, such that there was a 10 min break for people to (un)register from the tournament.  People were paired according to performance in previous games, but could come and go as they wanted to.
 
I also recall some discussion of "club" days/times being set up, for casual games.  Maybe this is closer to what you were thinking?
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Tuks
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Re: Gauging Level of Interest:  May-Dec Match Tour
« Reply #16 on: Mar 9th, 2012, 5:32am »
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I'm interested in this
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ginrunner
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Re: Gauging Level of Interest:  May-Dec Match Tour
« Reply #17 on: Mar 9th, 2012, 9:20am »
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The way I see it the hardest part of running/constructing a viable tournament is participation and dropping out. People drop out typically because of scheduling (long time period) and loss of interest once they realize they can't win. The 48 hour thing is only an idea but my goal isn't to run a tournament (I don't have the interest to do a good job honestly). All I am saying is if we want to make a tournament to boost activity then we need to look at the reason that tournaments in the past had issues and then design a tournament that compensates for these. The WC this year had a monetary incentive to spark interest in not dropping out for example.  
 
If I were running the 48 hour tourney I would make an announcement in the gameroom roughly a week prior and require people to register. Make the rules very short but say something along the lines of "The first game of (specified game control) with another registered participant counts toward the tournament" explain that people can only play two games with one person counted toward the tourney (one of each color). The registration stops people from sandbagging or just playing all new people. The short time frame allows for "burst" interest which seems to me to be the case (everyone is really excited at the start and that feeling wanes). The idea of scoring even for losses generates incentive to play even with huge rating gaps.
 
The idea is far from perfect but that was my rational. Figure out why things haven't worked perfectly and make something to fix those problems. I will say I do not have interest in running something though.
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Sconibulus
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Re: Gauging Level of Interest:  May-Dec Match Tour
« Reply #18 on: Mar 11th, 2012, 12:47pm »
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I'm expressing interest in this event, but I'm not sure if I can scrape together the entry fee at the moment. I'll be back in a week or three with a more definite answer, but it certainly seems like a fun idea.
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Eltripas
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Re: Gauging Level of Interest:  May-Dec Match Tour
« Reply #19 on: Mar 11th, 2012, 5:20pm »
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on Mar 11th, 2012, 12:47pm, Sconibulus wrote:
I'm expressing interest in this event, but I'm not sure if I can scrape together the entry fee at the moment. I'll be back in a week or three with a more definite answer, but it certainly seems like a fun idea.

 
Pretty much this for me too.
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omar
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Re: Gauging Level of Interest:  May-Dec Match Tour
« Reply #20 on: Mar 12th, 2012, 12:06am »
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I guess since the players just have to play seven games against an opponent over a 12 week period it might be better to not use the scheduler and allow the players to organize when they want to play the games.
 
Before starting the game the players should chat in the game window and agree that this game will count as part of this event. The chat is saved with the game so the agreement can be verified later if needed. I'll add the time control for this event as one of the time control choices available when inviting someone.
 
Also after the game is over both players must post in the game comments that this game counts as part of the event. Greg can then check the game comments and use a tool to mark this game as part of the event.
 
The TMT will still be used, but only to track the winner of each series. So in the TMT this can be setup as a single elimination tournament. The TMT will also make it easy to handle the event registration and the collection and distribution of the Arimaa points.
 
Greg, I'll have to show you the other tool to mark games as part of an event.
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Adanac
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Re: Gauging Level of Interest:  May-Dec Match Tour
« Reply #21 on: Mar 12th, 2012, 10:51am »
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Based upon more feedback, I’ll make the following changes to the tournament:
 
Loans:   A small amount will be put into a loan fund for people that would like to play in this event but cannot afford the entry fee.  This will deduct from my prize fund donations, but hopefully not too much Wink  Just send me a message if you don’t have enough Arimaa Points in your account and cannot afford to transfer money into the account.  Ideally players should cover at least the 50% portion for the deposit to discourage withdrawals.  If I get overwhelmed with requests, I might not be able to cover everyone.  However, since it’s a small event, there shouldn’t be a problem Smiley.  Loans don’t need to be paid back if you complete the tournament, otherwise it’ll be re-paid out of your deposit and/or prize winnings.
 
Divisions:  The two divisions will now be Open and Under-2200.  Of course, more divisions can be created but so far there hasn’t been any demand for a lower-rated division.  There have been lots of high-rated players showing interest in my message box and I want to make sure everyone can fit into one of the divisions, hence the bump from U2000 to U2200.
 
Scheduling Flexibility
Omar taught me how to use the Tournament Management Tool (TMT) on the weekend.  It's quite powerful and intuitive. It can handle flexible scheduling, as Omar mentioned earlier.  So the games can be scheduled:
 
1. Spontaneously:  the players agree to play whenever they’re in the gameroom together.  Just be 100% sure to get the colour assignments correct and use the tournament time control.  Players are responsible for completing all their games within a 12-week period.
 
OR
 
2. Pre-Arranged Dates:  The players negotiate and then announce the game dates & times in advance.  This can be done periodically throughout the match – you don’t have to announce the full 7-game schedule on the first day.  I’ll enter the games into the “Scheduled Games” section of the gameroom through the TMT.  This is more spectator-friendly as the game times are announced in advance.  
 
OR
 
3. Scheduled by the TMT: similar to the World Championship by selecting 60 preferred time slots and then running the program each Monday/Tuesday.  Each player will have 2 vacation weeks (announced before the start of the match), and there will be a 12th week that is used for emergency postponements, etc.  This is the default method if players can't agree to either of the previous two methods.  Just remember to submit your vacation weeks before the match begins.
 
Prize Fund Shares  
An additional prize fund share is earned by not forfeiting any games in a particular round.  This will give a bit more prize funds to players, even if they don’t win any games, so long as they show up to all their games.
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Harren
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Re: Gauging Level of Interest:  May-Dec Match Tour
« Reply #22 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 6:04pm »
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I'm interested!
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Eltripas
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Re: Gauging Level of Interest:  May-Dec Match Tour
« Reply #23 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 6:18pm »
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Nevermind.
« Last Edit: Mar 18th, 2012, 6:19pm by Eltripas » IP Logged
mistre
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Re: Gauging Level of Interest:  May-Dec Match Tour
« Reply #24 on: Mar 18th, 2012, 8:19pm »
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Wow, I wasn't expecting this to work out.  Thanks Adanac for making this possible!  With the changes, I am almost certain to be joining in.
 
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Adanac
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2012 Ironman Tournament
« Reply #25 on: Mar 25th, 2012, 4:55pm »
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Rules:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2012_Ironman_Tournament
 
Registration:  This event will be open for registration on March 26 at 23:00 GMT.  I'll follow Omar's advice and experiment with hidden registrations.  You'll be able to see how many people joined, and I'll post the average (mean) rating on the registration page but you won't be able to see who has already joined each division.
 
Under-1800:  There was a request for an easier division so there will also be an under-1800 division.
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ginrunner
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Re: Gauging Level of Interest:  May-Dec Match Tour
« Reply #26 on: Mar 27th, 2012, 4:46pm »
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Maybe this deserves its own thread; maybe not. I am clicking on registering and I am having a personal problem. Do I sign up for the open division where I will get to play the people I really want to play that will crush me (then again maybe they don't want to play me) and I will learn something or do I register for the 2200- division where I have a chance to win my money back? Though I am not a fan of paying an entree fee to play in a tournament I can understand it for the WC but if the plan is to hold more smaller and less distinguished tournaments then it might be worth a thought of abandoning the pay to play mentality.  
 
I will figure out which division to register for eventually ...
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Adanac
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Re: Gauging Level of Interest:  May-Dec Match Tour
« Reply #27 on: Mar 27th, 2012, 7:34pm »
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on Mar 27th, 2012, 4:46pm, ginrunner wrote:
Maybe this deserves its own thread; maybe not. I am clicking on registering and I am having a personal problem. Do I sign up for the open division where I will get to play the people I really want to play that will crush me (then again maybe they don't want to play me) and I will learn something or do I register for the 2200- division where I have a chance to win my money back? Though I am not a fan of paying an entree fee to play in a tournament I can understand it for the WC but if the plan is to hold more smaller and less distinguished tournaments then it might be worth a thought of abandoning the pay to play mentality.  
 
I will figure out which division to register for eventually ...

 
You probably won't win/lose more than $10 over an 8-month period in either division so you should choose whichever division you think would be more enjoyable.  The Open Division will definitely provide a learning experience if that's what you're looking for.
 
Generally, I prefer to have entry fees or deposits for events that require a long commitment, such as the World Championship or Postal Mixer.  The horrendously high rate of forfeits/withdrawals in the 2008-2010 events is a good example of why deposits are a good idea (remarkably, some people paid $20 for past World Championships and then never bothered to play -- it would be far worse in a free WC). But I think it's also good to run free events, and short weekend tournaments are ideal for that.
 
As for Entry Fee vs. Free events, you've reminded me that I wanted to run a free practice event before the big one that I'm running.  And if anyone else out there wants to practice running a tournament, I can show you everything that Omar taught me Wink.
 
I don't think Omar would mind if we periodically run free weekend tournaments throughout the Spring & Summer.  I'll try running an event this weekend.  Does anyone want to be a co-tournament director?  With this practice anyone can also be an assistant TD for my Ironman Tournament Smiley
 
Here are some ideas that should be easy to implement:
 
1. Ginrunner's suggestion of an open 48-hour tournament where anyone can challenge any other registered player whenever they want.  I'll test out this format on the weekend.
2. A one-day 15s/move 4-round blitz tournament.  These were tried in 2009 and, though they didn't draw big crowds,  they were fun.  The Arimaa community is much bigger now and getting 10 players might be possible.
3. A two-day 30s/move 4-round fast tournament.
 
 
Finally, as a reminder, if anyone wants to participate in the Ironman Tournament but cannot afford the entry fee, I'm more than happy to lend you the Arimaa Points.  Just read the “Loan” section from the Rules link in the Gameroom Announcements.
« Last Edit: Mar 28th, 2012, 2:51pm by Adanac » IP Logged


mistre
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Re: Gauging Level of Interest:  May-Dec Match Tour
« Reply #28 on: Apr 14th, 2012, 9:26pm »
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I guess my message didn't reach you in time, but I wanted to play in the U2200 division.  It looks like you decided to combine it with the U1800 division and now it is full.
 
I guess I will play in the Open division if needed - because you guys need 1 more to have 4.  However, maybe someone else in the U2200 feels more suited to take on the heavy hitters.  I venture to guess that I don't yet have a win vs any of the players in the open division.
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Adanac
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Re: Gauging Level of Interest:  May-Dec Match Tour
« Reply #29 on: Apr 15th, 2012, 8:12am »
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We only had 2 interested players Under-1800.  I contacted a few players but most people are too busy to compete in the tournament.  I'll send a message to a few players to see if anyone wants to move up to the Open Division.
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