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Topic: 2013 World Championship Format (Read 31143 times) |
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ginrunner
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Arimaa player #5449
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Re: 2013 World Championship Format
« Reply #90 on: Apr 12th, 2012, 11:21pm » |
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If there is an entry fee then prize money would be nice
With that being said if someone sponsors me they have claim to any and all prize money I receive.
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mistre
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Re: 2013 World Championship Format
« Reply #91 on: Apr 13th, 2012, 8:04am » |
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on Apr 12th, 2012, 9:15am, Fritzlein wrote:| I'm thinking about posting the Survey Monkey poll, via a link from the game room announcements, Friday night, so as to catch the weekend surge, including observers of hanzack's second Challenge game. If there are game commentators, we could also tell people to take the survey from the audio. The protection against ballot-stuffing is just IP-based, but I'd rather just see what happens and keep the ball rolling than get stalled thinking too much about security. Is everyone cool with that? |
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I say "go for it". I will post the link on our Facebook page too (which is up to 31 members).
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omar
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Arimaa player #2
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Re: 2013 World Championship Format
« Reply #92 on: Apr 13th, 2012, 9:43pm » |
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on Apr 12th, 2012, 9:15am, Fritzlein wrote:| I'm thinking about posting the Survey Monkey poll, via a link from the game room announcements, Friday night, so as to catch the weekend surge, including observers of hanzack's second Challenge game. If there are game commentators, we could also tell people to take the survey from the audio. The protection against ballot-stuffing is just IP-based, but I'd rather just see what happens and keep the ball rolling than get stalled thinking too much about security. Is everyone cool with that? |
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I looked into the SurveyMonkey site and found that they are using cookies to prevent someone from taking the survey twice. I was able to take a survey I created twice by opening the survey with another browser. Not good.
I tried out other sites, but they also seem to do the same thing. One good thing that came out of it though is that I found a couple of sites that are free and don't have a limit on the number of questions.
http://www.surveybuilder.com
and
http://kwiksurveys.com/
So, I've been busy trying to build something that will allow one Arimaa account to take the survey only once. Basically one of the questions on the survey will be to enter a unique code that is provided to the user. The code given to each user will be different. In the announcements a link like this can be given:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/survey/take.cgi?e=test1
This page gives the user the code they need and the link to the actual survey. After the survey is over codes that were entered can be checked to see if they are valid without knowing who the code belongs to. So if someone makes up a code it won't be valid and the result won't be counted.
Karl, you can use this tool to setup the link to the survey.
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/survey/
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: 2013 World Championship Format
« Reply #93 on: Apr 13th, 2012, 9:55pm » |
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Omar, thanks for figuring out a way to link surveys to gameroom logins. I'll set up the questions on surveybuilder when I get a chance.
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Hippo
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Arimaa player #4450
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Re: 2013 World Championship Format
« Reply #94 on: Apr 14th, 2012, 7:31pm » |
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This is that long thread that I have read just half of it yet.
I hope I understand both points of view (Omar's and Fritzlein's).
Omar wants a standard to allow game to be classified as an event game. That could lead to some "events" to be classified as organised causal games.
Actually this game classification is not that much important for me.
Actually Omar's motivation is not in this classification but in increasing the event's standard. Unfortunately I am afraid that in most cases it could lead to swithing to "causal event" if the constrains are difficult to achieve.
I agree with Fritzlein that big cheap open turnament would be the best Arimaa promotion. I would hardly be playing arimaa for more than 2 years if not participating in 2010 WC for free. Heaving 2012 WC cheap would do the same for Boo and all strong new players starting on T*. Tripple elimination is fantastic format reducing the dependency on other player's games and being short. And consolidation bracket would eliminate the problem of small number of games played on the event.
I understand the omar's intention to run WC as smooth as possible and I hope he could share his "administration tools" to enough people to be able to cover all WC games. But I understand his doubts.
I personaly have seen just one example ... in last WC (2012) there were 4 volunteer writers. I myself informed others that I will not have enough time for it and Adanac informed us that he will start later. At the end I wrote coverage for first 4 rounds (20 games). Than I went for a holidays and I hoped someone else covers the rest. From the remaining 11 games only 4 were covered. Two by chessandgo which was not among the 4 volunteers and 2 by Adanac. I understand that players may not want to make coverage as it could point out comentator's weakness, so I as not participating in the event was well qualified for that. But why eliminated players have not participate? Actually it was a bit complicated with the volunteers being eliminated at the very end.
So having nice pool of volunteers does not mean the topic is covered ... . In either case I hope for smothly going big cheap tripple elimination WC with volunteer referees (and I don't mind them just to be on call).
Actually the prices are not that much important for me as the pleasure from the good games ...
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: 2013 World Championship Format
« Reply #95 on: Apr 14th, 2012, 10:55pm » |
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I transferred the survey to survey builder. I took it myself and it seems to work. There is nothing to prevent anyone from taking the survey a jillion times, except that we will later throw out ones with invalid codes. How exactly are we going to do that, Omar? Anyway, it is open for business. If I have messed anything up, we can always wipe the slate clean and start over.
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Arimabuff
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Arimaa player #2764
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Re: 2013 World Championship Format
« Reply #96 on: Apr 15th, 2012, 5:54am » |
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on Apr 6th, 2012, 11:31am, Fritzlein wrote:
...First, I notice that everybody except the final two can see their payday vary by a factor of two based on games they weren't involved in. Why should someone get double or half the money depending on events out of their control?... |
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I can certainly think of a possible explanation for that. If one of the opponents they beat turns out to be stronger (or weaker) in later games then their merit grows (or diminishes) accordingly. So why not?
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: 2013 World Championship Format
« Reply #97 on: Apr 15th, 2012, 9:39am » |
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on Apr 15th, 2012, 5:54am, Arimabuff wrote:| I can certainly think of a possible explanation for that. If one of the opponents they beat turns out to be stronger (or weaker) in later games then their merit grows (or diminishes) accordingly. So why not? |
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Indeed, why not? I didn't mean for my argument to sound like I was staking out an absolute position or cutting off debate.
One number that I would like to see, relevant to your argument, is the in-tournament performance rating of the various prize scenarios. If chessandgo had kept winning (thus reducing the prizes of places #3 through #11) would the performance rating of the top two have risen higher above the rest, or would they just have changed places with each other while staying the same distance above? Chessandgo's extra wins (making him look more dominant) would be balanced by hanzack's extra losses (making him look less dominnant). If the combination of extra wins and extra losses at the top doesn't really affect the performance ratings at the bottom, then extra wins by chessandgo wouldn't seem to be an indicator that the lower ranks deserve less prize money. Would you agree?
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hyperpape
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Arimaa player #7113
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Re: 2013 World Championship Format
« Reply #98 on: Apr 15th, 2012, 11:56am » |
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Is it possible to only answer certain questions?
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: 2013 World Championship Format
« Reply #99 on: Apr 15th, 2012, 12:46pm » |
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on Apr 15th, 2012, 11:56am, hyperpape wrote:| Is it possible to only answer certain questions? |
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Yes, the only question that is mandatory is the first one, asking for the survey code. But if you don't answer all questions, at least click the arrow in the lower right corner to indicate that you are done.
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Posts: 5928
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Re: 2013 World Championship Format
« Reply #100 on: Apr 15th, 2012, 3:32pm » |
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We have 19 survey responses already. Super-awesome!
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omar
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Arimaa player #2
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Posts: 1003
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Re: 2013 World Championship Format
« Reply #101 on: Apr 18th, 2012, 6:50pm » |
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on Apr 14th, 2012, 10:55pm, Fritzlein wrote:| I transferred the survey to survey builder. I took it myself and it seems to work. There is nothing to prevent anyone from taking the survey a jillion times, except that we will later throw out ones with invalid codes. How exactly are we going to do that, Omar? Anyway, it is open for business. If I have messed anything up, we can always wipe the slate clean and start over. |
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After the survey is over, you can download the survey data file from SurveyBuilder and then upload the file into survey tool. It will tell you which codes if any are invalid. If the person took the survey multiple times and used a valid code then just use the most recently completed survey record in the data file.
The tool also tells you the usernames of the people who took the survey. So if you see Guest or usernames that were recently created you might want to check the IP addresses recorded in the survey file to see if there are duplicate records with the same IP and detect fake accounts.
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Posts: 5928
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Re: 2013 World Championship Format
« Reply #102 on: Apr 18th, 2012, 7:22pm » |
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on Apr 18th, 2012, 6:50pm, omar wrote:After the survey is over, you can download the survey data file from SurveyBuilder and then upload the file into survey tool. It will tell you which codes if any are invalid. If the person took the survey multiple times and used a valid code then just use the most recently completed survey record in the data file.
The tool also tells you the usernames of the people who took the survey. So if you see Guest or usernames that were recently created you might want to check the IP addresses recorded in the survey file to see if there are duplicate records with the same IP and detect fake accounts. |
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Awesome. I would like to leave the survey open at least a week, but maybe I will try out the powers of the tool even before then to see how it works. Thanks for building this.
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Posts: 5928
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Re: 2013 World Championship Format
« Reply #103 on: Apr 28th, 2012, 1:28pm » |
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on Apr 18th, 2012, 6:50pm, omar wrote:After the survey is over, you can download the survey data file from SurveyBuilder and then upload the file into survey tool. It will tell you which codes if any are invalid. If the person took the survey multiple times and used a valid code then just use the most recently completed survey record in the data file.
The tool also tells you the usernames of the people who took the survey. So if you see Guest or usernames that were recently created you might want to check the IP addresses recorded in the survey file to see if there are duplicate records with the same IP and detect fake accounts. |
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I closed the survey, downloaded the results, converted to tab delimited format, and uploaded into your tool. There were two eleven-digit survey codes that were declared invalid. Or, to be more precise, the survey results I got from Survey Builder contained two eleven-digit codes, which I assumed had been automatically shortened because they contained a leading zero. I added a leading zero to the eleven-digit codes, and those two twelve-digit codes were rejected. I can't test whether the codes are accepted without the leading zero, because the tool only allows the results to be uploaded once.
Before I tabulate and analyze the results, would you please check these two codes?
012570180306 013656795332
The two matrix questions can't be read inside the arimaa.com uploaded results, and are difficult to tabulate even in Excel. For analyzing those, the best option appears to be giving a list of codes to Survey Builder, and letting them tabulate the filtered results. That will also let me do an analysis split by over/under 1800 rating, or by have/haven't previously played in the championship, or by likely/unlikely to play personally. But first I need to settle on a list of which codes I am using.
Thanks in advance.
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omar
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Arimaa player #2
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Re: 2013 World Championship Format
« Reply #104 on: Apr 28th, 2012, 1:48pm » |
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Sorry, I didn't see this earlier. No need to add the leading zero's the codes can be shorter than 12 digits. Try uploading the file again without those leading zeros.
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