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        Arimaa >> Events >> cheating in the WC
        
(Message started by: froody on Dec 14^th, 2011, 2:33am)

Title: cheating in the WC
Post by froody on Dec 14^th, 2011, 2:33am

Hanzack and I are considering cheating our way to a world title by entering the WC as a team. Thus increasing our playing strength and giving us two chances.

I think it's good for Arimaa, cos it will mean we play stronger and Arimaa might have a different champ.

It would be *bad* for Arimaa if anyone found out we were cheating, but of course we will deny it and say this post was just a joke/devils advocate/philosophy experiment. And nobody will be able to prove it. We will take the secret to our graves.

I think it's also a fun idea to make this public to add to the drama of the WC. People will watch our games closely and speculate if we're cheating. They will never know, of course.

I think it's only slightly immoral. You could say it's unfair on c&g cos we're cheating him out of another title, but he won 3 already. I think he will be happy to lose to a strong hybrid opponent. I don't care about the money. I'm a zillionaire. I'll give anything we win to charity.

Ohh, and if words and ideas upset you, and you don't like playing with trolls or advocating devils, just ignore this post.

For the rest of you: What do you think of my idea? Also would it actually make us stronger? I think it would. We would only collaborate on very sharp positions when we have some reserve to use.

Of course, Omar will have to publicly say he does not approve, but I will always suspect he secretly thinks it's a cute idea and good for the game.

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by megajester on Dec 14^th, 2011, 4:31am

You're nuts.

OK, here's a quick and dirty way of invigilating a match.

Make the players play at a physical table. They provide a live webcam feed of the room they're playing in. An invigilator watching the feed makes the players show him as they turn off the monitor, and then train the webcam onto the table they'll be playing at. The invigilator announces the moves to the player. The player makes his moves on the board and shouts "Send", and the moves are updated by the invigilator. Something along those lines...

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by froody on Dec 14^th, 2011, 5:06am

I don't understand the point of this. Do you really think you're going to stop me cheating with a web-cam? Surely I don't need to explain all the ways to get around this. Send a real person to my house, no problem, I'll still be able to cheat. It's very easy. The point is, there is no way anyone is going to try and stop me, and even if you did, it would fail.

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by froody on Dec 14^th, 2011, 5:07am

Also that is slander! I am NOT NUTS. Apologise at once or I'm suing.

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by chessandgo on Dec 14^th, 2011, 7:08am

Hah.

on 12/14/11 at 02:33:36, froody wrote:

but he won 3 already.

4 by the last count actually :p
I'll be fine to be cheated out of another title, but not out of one I've won in the past. Give back to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar (do you guys say that in english?).

Oh and what does WWBFD mean?

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by froody on Dec 14^th, 2011, 7:19am

What Would Bobby Fischer Do?

We do not say that about Ceasar. What is the connection?

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by Fritzlein on Dec 14^th, 2011, 8:30am

If you could effectively cheat I would worry, but in this case I will happily accept your entry fee as an increase to my prize payout.

For the future, I note that it is a bad idea to make the Arimaa World Championship more about money, as it encourages psychopathic behavior. (I know, froody, you are only pretending to be a psychopath, but I am only pretending to believe you, so we are even.)

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by froody on Dec 14^th, 2011, 9:07am

(((((-:

I am a psychopath but I want people to love me.

And it's nothing to do with the money. If I wanted to make money I'd sell pizza instead of playing Arimaa for hours.

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by froody on Dec 14^th, 2011, 9:47am

"I think sensational players and great commentators is what attracts non-player spectators." --Omar

Perhaps I misunderstood what he meant by 'sensational' :-)

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by Fritzlein on Dec 14^th, 2011, 10:17am

on 12/14/11 at 09:47:08, froody wrote:

"I think sensational players and great commentators is what attracts non-player spectators." --Omar

Incidentally, Omar's theory will be tested this cycle. We have the hype he wants but not the large tournament participation that I want. In terms of games played and unique users per day, the Arimaa community grew about 10% compared to the previous year, so we should expect the audience for the commentated games to grow by 10% as well. That's the benchmark; if we exceed it I will tip my hat to Omar for knowing how to promote his game. If we fall short, I'll call the tournament format a failure.

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by Dolus on Dec 14^th, 2011, 10:30am

on 12/14/11 at 10:17:11, Fritzlein wrote:

I suppose part of what could make this championship a success versus a failure is as Omar wanted, lower rated players have not signed up for the tournament, leaving higher rated players. Seeing stronger players playing against other stronger players are the games that people want to watch. Hardly anybody wants to see me while I play a game, whether I'm dominating, getting dominated, or up in a fair match (the latter might be interesting to some, but would be difficult to identify before a game starts). So just because there should be a higher density games pitting two strong opponents against each other, that could create a larger audience.

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by Fritzlein on Dec 14^th, 2011, 2:42pm

on 12/14/11 at 10:30:27, Dolus wrote:

So just because there should be a higher density games pitting two strong opponents against each other, that could create a larger audience.

Indeed. But my hypothesis was that if 33 players register for the tournament, those top-level games have a built-in audience of 31. In general I feel that people won't watch Arimaa unless they also play Arimaa. For example, my father doesn't enjoy watching me play even if I am battling chessandgo for world supremacy. He doesn't understand the moves, so it is boring to him. Omar, however, believes that Arimaa is fun to watch as long as the commentary is good. I guess that he can also produce members of his family as examples of people who don't play Arimaa but like to watch it along with commentary.

We'll have about the same number of high-level games as last year, so we'll see if the increased density helps build the audience.

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by Eggman on Dec 14^th, 2011, 2:42pm

on 12/14/11 at 07:19:15, froody wrote:

What Would Bobby Fischer Do?

We do not say that about Ceasar. What is the connection?

Sure we do, though I've usually heard it "Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_unto_Caesar...

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by froody on Dec 14^th, 2011, 4:40pm

How is this relevant to me not making explicit that c&g has 4 titles?

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by Dolus on Dec 14^th, 2011, 4:46pm

on 12/14/11 at 16:40:50, froody wrote:

How is this relevant to me not making explicit that c&g has 4 titles?

C&G has four titles?

Chess Champion
Go Champion
Arimaa Champion

What's the fourth? Is C&G a Tic-Tac-Toe champion?

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by Fritzlein on Dec 14^th, 2011, 6:10pm

on 12/14/11 at 16:46:54, Dolus wrote:

What's the fourth? Is C&G a Tic-Tac-Toe champion?

He is also a poker champion, but that is not his fourth title. His fourth title is "Overlord of the Universe".

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by froody on Dec 14^th, 2011, 6:33pm

I want to take that title from him, too!

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by Eggman on Dec 14^th, 2011, 7:07pm

on 12/14/11 at 18:33:06, froody wrote:

I want to take that title from him, too!

This aggression will not stand, man.

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by chessandgo on Dec 15^th, 2011, 6:07am

on 12/14/11 at 18:10:10, Fritzlein wrote:

His fourth title is "Overlord of the Universe".

Well, so far my title is actually "Underlord of Flat 11, 105 Church Road", but I'm not losing faith (yet).

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by chessandgo on Dec 15^th, 2011, 6:09am

on 12/14/11 at 14:42:41, Eggman wrote:

Sure we do, though I've usually heard it "Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_unto_Caesar...

Ah, thanks!
Froody: In French we use it as a pompous way of saying "it's mine, give it back!".

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by megajester on Dec 16^th, 2011, 12:45am

on 12/15/11 at 06:07:41, chessandgo wrote:

Well, so far my title is actually "Underlord of Flat 11, 105 Church Road", but I'm not losing faith (yet).

I checked and there's at least 4 Church Road's in London alone. Ah well, I suppose there's a reason these smart bombs come in 6-packs...

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by froody on Dec 16^th, 2011, 1:42am

Ohhh, cool! Are you in London!? I'm coming to visit you as part of my training regime! Is good?

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by chessandgo on Dec 16^th, 2011, 5:57am

Heh. How many in the entire UK though? I hope you can get a mass discount for a wholesale price.

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by Arimabuff on Dec 25^th, 2011, 12:50am

on 12/14/11 at 16:46:54, Dolus wrote:

C&G has four titles?

Chess Champion
Go Champion
Arimaa Champion

What's the fourth? Is C&G a Tic-Tac-Toe champion?

How about his opinion? He's entitled to his opinion, is he not?

Title: Re: cheating in the WC
Post by Nazgand on Feb 20^th, 2012, 7:09pm

The Overlord of the Universe is not entitled to an opinion; though it is counter-intuitive, The Overlord of the Universe is but a figurehead.