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(Message started by: rbarreira on Feb 6th, 2012, 6:49am)
Title: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by rbarreira on Feb 6th, 2012, 6:49am
A few random thoughts:

1- The registration for the postal mixer is supposed to start Feb 1, 2012 but I don't see a way to register yet.

2- Are any bot developers planning to enter their bots? I'm curious to see sharp and marwin playing as they haven't played much postally.

3- Speaking of bots in the Postal Mixer, I noticed that the games start Apr 8. which is around the same time the Challenge games are ongoing. This could create an interesting situation where the defenders of the Challenge can play the bot they're defending against. Of course it's possible to work around this by having the challenging bot avoid playing any/many postal moves until the challenge games are over (at least in the games against Challenge defenders).
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Feb 10th, 2012, 3:23pm
In 2010 Omar forgot about the Postal Mixer until the week before it was supposed to happen.  He opened registration for two weeks with no fee, and 42 people signed up.  I expected a complete disaster on the theory that free signup would encourage people to join who weren't serious enough to complete their games.  As it turned out, there were only an average number of incomplete games.

In 2011 Omar remembered the Postal Mixer ahead of time and opened registration over four months in advance.  He charged a $10 entry fee, which I expected would encourage seriousness and increase the number of completed games, especially as the number of registrants dropped to 29.  Again I was wrong, as a significant number of people abandoned the tournament.

The moral of the story is that opening registration early is a bad idea.  Someone who signs up the week before the tournament and loses interest in Arimaa three months later may actually have completed most of his games before leaving, whereas someone who signs up three months before the tournament and loses interest three months later won't even start his games.  I suggest we learn from experience, open registration at the last minute, and charge no entry fee.  I think we could easily get 50 participants this year, and barring a raft of spurious signups, we could have the best tournament ever.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by tize on Feb 11th, 2012, 3:33am
I'm not completely decided about it yet but I don't think that marwin will play in the postal mixer.

And if I register him then it will probably be with marwin thinking something like 5-10 minutes per move as to not use up to much of my computer.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by omar on Feb 13th, 2012, 4:45pm
I needed to do some work to integrate the postal mixer with the tournament management tool. Sorry about the delay.

I've activated the registration, so anyone who wants can sign up now. I won't announce it in the gameroom until a couple of weeks before the registration ends.

I think it should be OK for a challenge defender to play the challenge bot in a postal. The timecontrols being very different should cause the bot to play differently from even the same position. But as you mentioned the bot could use some of the vacation time to avoid playing the challenge defenders if the bot developer is concerned.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by rbarreira on Mar 21st, 2012, 6:49am
bot_briareus is signed up for 20 games. Hippo said that he registered bot_hippo too.

Omar is there any way we can see the list of signed up players?
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by arimaa_master on Mar 21st, 2012, 8:51am

on 03/21/12 at 06:49:57, rbarreira wrote:
bot_briareus is signed up for 20 games. Hippo said that he registered bot_hippo too.

Omar is there any way we can see the list of signed up players?


I am not Omar - but you can find list of Registered players here:

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/events/reg.cgi?e=2012pt
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Mar 21st, 2012, 10:13am
Is the seeding of bot_Hippo and bot_briareus reversed on that page?  It seems odd for the likely Arimaa Challenger to be the low seed in the Postal Mixer.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by rbarreira on Mar 21st, 2012, 10:15am

on 03/21/12 at 10:13:13, Fritzlein wrote:
Is the seeding of bot_Hippo and bot_briareus reversed on that page?  It seems odd for the likely Arimaa Challenger to be the low seed in the Postal Mixer.


On that page, the bots apparently get the gameroom rating of their owners. But WHRE has the priority over gameroom rating according to the rules of the postal mixer, so it probably doesn't matter. It probably also means that Omar has to seed the players manually.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Hippo on Mar 21st, 2012, 11:45am
Oh I hoped my bot would not be seeded according my WHRE.
I really don't expect it to be par with me in near future.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by rbarreira on Mar 21st, 2012, 11:54am
Vladan your bot will be seeded according to its own gameroom rating, according to the rules (because it doesn't have a WHRE rating).
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Mar 21st, 2012, 1:02pm
Ten players already signed up, ten days left to sign up: It looks good for having more than twenty participants again this year, despite the increased deposit.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by mistre on Mar 21st, 2012, 1:18pm
Omar,

Is there any chance of an increased incentive to play in the postal mixer?  I am fine with the refundable deposit, but it would be nice if there was a little prize money available.  Perhaps one idea is if anyone does drop out that their deposit is distributed equally among remaining players.  Another idea is offering free or discounted entry fees into other tournaments based on the number of completed games.

Regardless of this, I will be joining the mixer, I just thought it would be nice to have some added incentives.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Mar 21st, 2012, 1:29pm

on 03/21/12 at 13:18:51, mistre wrote:
Regardless of this, I will be joining the mixer,

Eleven.  Woohoo!
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by omar on Mar 21st, 2012, 8:10pm

on 03/21/12 at 13:18:51, mistre wrote:
Omar,

Is there any chance of an increased incentive to play in the postal mixer?  I am fine with the refundable deposit, but it would be nice if there was a little prize money available.  Perhaps one idea is if anyone does drop out that their deposit is distributed equally among remaining players.  Another idea is offering free or discounted entry fees into other tournaments based on the number of completed games.

Regardless of this, I will be joining the mixer, I just thought it would be nice to have some added incentives.


I won't make any changes this year. But maybe we can discuss something for next year.

What if the registration fee went into a prize fund and was distributed similar to the WC. That is, the prize fund is divided by the total number of games and players get that amount for each game they win. It would create an incentive to play more games also.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by mistre on Mar 21st, 2012, 8:27pm

on 03/21/12 at 20:10:10, omar wrote:
I won't make any changes this year. But maybe we can discuss something for next year.

What if the registration fee went into a prize fund and was distributed similar to the WC. That is, the prize fund is divided by the total number of games and players get that amount for each game they win. It would create an incentive to play more games also.


I like it, let's do it for next year.  Also, give people the option to contribute more than the registration fee to the prize fund if they choose (like in the WC and prediction contest).
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by hyperpape on Mar 23rd, 2012, 10:38am
How are the games paired? Right now, I'm the weakest player to join, and without thinking, I signed up for a ridiculous number of games.

I'm definitely ok to play a number of truly uneven games--it's a chance to learn, and I'm not overly proud (about this). But if my choices mean I'm going to play non-stop games against every strong player, perhaps I should ask for my number of minimum games to be lowered.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Mar 23rd, 2012, 4:50pm
Hand-wavy description:  Games are paired first by closest rating, and then by who still wants games, and then if people still want games after that duplicate pairings with colors reversed are added.

With the present, registration, yes, you would get a bunch of mismatched games.  There is no cutoff such as "up to 12 games, up to 500 rating points difference".  (A rating limit should be easy to add to the algorithm if we want it, but that's another story).  I don't think you should panic about a bunch of mismatches until closer to the deadline, because in the past there have been plenty of lower-rated registrants.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by mistre on Apr 6th, 2012, 2:54pm
Are the postal mixer games being paired based on WHRP?

http://home.scarlet.be/~woh/whr/whrp.htm

If not, they should be...
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by ChrisB on Apr 6th, 2012, 4:00pm

on 04/06/12 at 14:54:31, mistre wrote:
Are the postal mixer games being paired based on WHRP?

http://home.scarlet.be/~woh/whr/whrp.htm

If not, they should be...

Yes, I also think it would be better to pair based on WHRP. Even though the potential exists to bias one's WHRP by self-selecting opponents, I believe very little of that has occurred.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by omar on Apr 7th, 2012, 12:10am

on 04/06/12 at 14:54:31, mistre wrote:
Are the postal mixer games being paired based on WHRP?

http://home.scarlet.be/~woh/whr/whrp.htm

If not, they should be...


Good idea. Although there are some players who have not established (need at least 5 games) a WHRP rating yet. As backups I'll use WHRE (if 5+ games played), then WHRH (if 5+ games played) and finally gameroom ratings.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by mistre on Apr 8th, 2012, 8:55pm
Let the games begin!  Everyone have a great postal mixer!  ;D
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by mistre on Apr 21st, 2012, 8:58am
When is this page going to be updated? http://arimaa.com/arimaa/tourn/postal/2012/showGames.cgi

One of my games is over already....
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by geez on Apr 21st, 2012, 2:08pm

on 04/21/12 at 08:58:44, mistre wrote:
When is this page going to be updated? http://arimaa.com/arimaa/tourn/postal/2012/showGames.cgi

One of my games is over already....


Oh, there's no hurry... :-/

;)
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by ChrisB on May 25th, 2012, 11:27am
13 games have been completed.  First year players Tellmarch and browni3141 are off to an early lead:


Player ......... Win ... Loss ... Win-Loss

Tellmarch ....... 3 ..... 0 ........ 3
browni3141 ...... 2 ..... 0 ........ 2
mistre .......... 2 ..... 1 ........ 1
bot_briareus .... 1 ..... 0 ........ 1
woh ............. 1 ..... 0 ........ 1
Nombril ......... 1 ..... 0 ........ 1
ChrisB .......... 1 ..... 0 ........ 1
hyperpape ....... 2 ..... 2 ........ 0
Dolus ........... 0 ..... 1 ....... -1
geez ............ 0 ..... 1 ....... -1
rsjonmoeas ...... 0 ..... 2 ....... -2
Jacka ........... 0 ..... 2 ....... -2
mwest ........... 0 ..... 4 ....... -4
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by hyperpape on May 26th, 2012, 8:16pm
As the lowest ranked human player at the start of the tournament, I'm pretty thrilled at these results. Looking at the boards, I feel like I might even win one or two more.

(Actually, if I ignore the name on the other side, the game against Fritzlein looks like it's still going fine ) ::)
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by rbarreira on Jun 6th, 2012, 7:00am
People are playing their games slower this year, bot_briareus has been mostly inactive in the past few days.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by mistre on Jun 6th, 2012, 8:32am

on 06/06/12 at 07:00:32, rbarreira wrote:
People are playing their games slower this year, bot_briareus has been mostly inactive in the past few days.


Yeah, it appears that way.  And Briareus is giving me fits!  It has already beat me in one game and is playing me very tough in the other...
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Jun 6th, 2012, 9:51am
I'm much busier now than I was last summer.  I'll try not to time out in any games...  :-/
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Hippo on Jun 14th, 2012, 2:53pm

on 06/06/12 at 09:51:45, Fritzlein wrote:
I'm much busier now than I was last summer.  I'll try not to time out in any games...  :-/


Tell me about it ;) ... I hope my bot would not timeout as well ... each windows actualisation makes it inaccessible and stopped. I have not looked at it for about a month except today ... . It seemed to me I would be happy if it will finish all games on board. Anything better would be a success ;). I hoped the mixer would make a presure on me to make a lot of progress, but ... :(
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Hippo on Jun 16th, 2012, 4:48pm
I had to let my bot play in parallel not to time out.
What happens too often to it is it computes move, sends it to AEI and AEI fails to make the move so the bot is called again for next 8 hours of computation. I should solve this problem in AEI, not in the bot ;).

Sorry to every opponent for so often repeated chat ... may be it will improve ;).

Hmm, AEI received "Invalid session ID" what was reason for rejecting the move. May be logging to gameroom as bot to check the state of the games makes the bot's session invalid? Or just the gameroom timeouted it?

Nevermind I should change AEI to deal with this situation.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Janzert on Jun 16th, 2012, 6:32pm
Yes, I would think there is at least a possibility that logging something else into an account would invalidate other session id's.

I suppose there is also a timeout on the session but I don't recall ever having a problem with it and I think there were a few times that went up to at least 12 hours of thinking time.

Janzert
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Hippo on Jun 16th, 2012, 7:08pm
I suppose following would not be the required fix :(

Code:
if not self.move(response.move):
    gameroom.login(bot_username, bot_password)
    #have to solve Invalid Session Id situation!
    #hope this helped
    self.move(response.move)


I am afraid the gameroom sid is not the game sid and therefore there must be table sit in between as well.

I should probably wait with bot's logins for some time ... before I fix it.

May be

Code:
        table.reserveseat()
        table.sitdown()
        table.engine = engine_ctl
        # ^ needed for update_chat
        table.updatestate()


Should be added as well.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Hippo on Jun 18th, 2012, 2:37pm
I hope I have fixed the problem ... caching move chosen by engine and clearing cache after successfull play of the move, running engine only when the cache is empty.
So restart after "unknown exception" should replay it without new search.

(May be I should invoke the exception to force it.)
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Janzert on Jun 18th, 2012, 3:09pm
I would be careful that if you accidentally get two instances running on the same game that the second one can't end up submitting an illegal move. I think currently the second one will get thrown out with an error. But further discussion should probably move to its own thread.

Janzert
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by mistre on Jul 10th, 2012, 8:32am
3 months in and still no update to the standings.   :(  I haven't seen Omar on here in a long while.  Must be really busy?
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Hippo on Jul 14th, 2012, 12:19pm

on 07/10/12 at 08:32:09, mistre wrote:
3 months in and still no update to the standings.   :(  I haven't seen Omar on here in a long while.  Must be really busy?


I have expected that was done by code previous year.
If yes, where the code is?
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by woh on Jul 16th, 2012, 6:17am
A possible reason why the page isn't updated automatically might be that this year the games are marked with the event PT 2012 R1 where previous years the games were marked just under PT 2011, PT 2010, ...
The routine might be looking for games for the event PT 2012 and finding none.
Just something that caught me eye and might explain why the page isn't updated.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by browni3141 on Jul 19th, 2012, 10:23pm
Why do some games have a radio, and how was it decided which games get them? I feel so left out  :'(
Also, has anyone actually given commentary on any of the games?
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Nombril on Jul 20th, 2012, 1:04pm
What games have a radio?  I know my game against bot_briareus does, but I figured that was because of challenge games having the audio.

So maybe any matchups between players that later had audio commentary (from iron man tournament or other event games) were flagged for the embedded radio.  (So it is based on players, not on game id?)
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by ChrisB on Aug 25th, 2012, 11:12pm
65 games have been completed, 34 remain.
Here are some statistics:




Results for 2012 Arimaa Postal Mixer                                                
As of August 25, 2012                                                                              


  .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .   .  Internal
  .   .   .   Initial .   .   .   .   .   .  Games   Performance   Current   Rating      
Player .   .   Rating  . Won   Lost   W - L   Left   .Rating   .  . WHR-P   . Change
------------   -------   ---   ----   -----   -----   -----------   -------   --------

browni3141  .   1799   .   7   .  0   .  7   .  10   .  1771 2nd   . 2135   .  336 1st
Tellmarch   .   1860   .  11   .  4   .  7   .   4   .  1630   .   . 2074   .  214 2nd
Fritzlein   .   2741   .   5   .  0   .  5   .   6   .  1852 1st   . 2778   .   37      
Nombril .   .   2373   .   6   .  1   .  5   .   8   .  1644   .   . 2310   .  -64      
ChrisB  .   .   2157   .   4   .  0   .  4   .   6   .  1656   .   . 2232   .   74      
bot_briareus.   2116   .   6   .  3   .  3   .   5   .  1630   .   . 2198   .   81      
chessadngo  .   2614   .   2   .  0   .  2   .   2   .  1696 3rd   . 2653   .   39      
Adanac  .   .   2318   .   4   .  2   .  2   .   2   .  1680   .   . 2373   .   55      
mistre  .   .   2035   .   6   .  4   .  2   .   3   .  1560   .   . 2033   .   -3      
woh .   .   .   1899   .   4   .  2   .  2   .   6   .  1469   .   . 1889   .  -10      
Alfons  .   .   2308   .   1   .  0   .  1   .   2   .  1598   .   . 2420   .  112      
omar    .   .   2069   .   1   .  2   . -1   .   1   .  1429   .   . 2050   .  -19      
geez    .   .   1939   .   1   .  2   . -1   .   2   .  1427   .   . 1833   . -106      
bot_Hippo   .   1500   .   2   .  4   . -2   .   2   .  1380   .   . 1666   .  166      
Dolus   .   .   1743   .   0   .  2   . -2   .   3   .  1316   .   . 1683   .  -60      
Jacka   .   .   1557   .   2   .  5   . -3   .   3   .  1359   .   . 1667   .  111      
rsjonmoeas  .   1943   .   0   .  3   . -3   .   0   .  1270   .   . 1871   .  -72      
hyperpape   .   1514   .   3   .  9   . -6   .   3   .  1325   .   . 1697   .  183 3rd
mwest   .   .   1647   .   0   .  8   . -8   .   0   .  1100   .   . 1577   .  -70      
Tuks    .   .   2254   .   0   . 14   .-14   .   0   .  1105   .   . 1916   . -339      

ALL .   .   .   .   .  .  65   . 65   .  0   .  34



Browni3141 and Tellmarch still lead in win-loss difference and rating improvement.  Fritzlein has the highest internal performance rating.

The Rating Change values are also influenced by auto-postal games.

The Internal Performance Rating, however, is limited to the 65 completed postal mixer games.   It was calculated using woh's In Tournament WHR Calculator (see: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=talk;action=display;num=1264551079).  I used the default prior of one win and one loss against a dummy player with a fixed rating of 1500.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 26th, 2012, 12:24am
Wow, thanks for this incredible summary, ChrisB.  That must have taken you quite some time to compile.

You should say something about Alfons, who has quietly moved up another couple of notches in WHR.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by ChrisB on Aug 26th, 2012, 5:17am

on 08/26/12 at 00:24:47, Fritzlein wrote:
You should say something about Alfons, who has quietly moved up another couple of notches in WHR.


Yes, although Alfons has only one postal mixer win, he has been 8-0 in rated postal games since the initial ratings were set in early April, moving up to #3 in the WHR-Postal ratings.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Hippo on Sep 4th, 2012, 9:22am
Seems my bot is finishing his last game ... :)
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Dolus on Sep 18th, 2012, 2:42pm
Yay! I completed my last game!
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Sep 19th, 2012, 8:05am
I have five games left... and it is my move in all of them!
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by rbarreira on Sep 28th, 2012, 3:42am
bot_briareus's postal mixer games are over with a result of 10-4 (compared to 12-6 last year).
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by browni3141 on Sep 28th, 2012, 9:00am

on 09/28/12 at 03:42:44, rbarreira wrote:
bot_briareus's postal mixer games are over with a result of 10-4 (compared to 12-6 last year).

And half of it's losses were to me!  ;D
So only three people beat it :(. Arimaa needs more humans players. If our numbers exploded I bet the bots wouldn't seem nearly as close as they do. At least the bots are farther than they look (IMO).
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by odin73 on Sep 28th, 2012, 12:14pm
What about c&g´s postal game:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/java/ys/ms4/v5/js_sit.cgi?sid=9134884924&grid=3&rand=24360577 ?
It´s not a part of the mixer event?

I mention that game since I find it quite funny to watch the roaming bot´s horse. ;)
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by browni3141 on Sep 28th, 2012, 2:47pm

on 09/28/12 at 12:14:05, odin73 wrote:
What about c&g´s postal game:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/java/ys/ms4/v5/js_sit.cgi?sid=9134884924&grid=3&rand=24360577 ?
It´s not a part of the mixer event?

I mention that game since I find it quite funny to watch the roaming bot´s horse. ;)

That's not part of the mixer. Since chessandgo didn't get paired in the mixer rbarreira offered to start a separate game.
I would probably find it funny too if chessandgo's position didn't worry me.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Sep 28th, 2012, 6:51pm

on 09/28/12 at 03:42:44, rbarreira wrote:
bot_briareus's postal mixer games are over with a result of 10-4 (compared to 12-6 last year).

Updated game-room performance rating table:

Bot .    Year Record Postal Performance
---      ---- ------ ------------------
Bomb     2005   4-6   1716
Zombie   2007   1-14  1409
Sharp    2008   1-8   1568
OpFor    2008   8-9   2060
OpFor    2009   3-7   1798
OpFor    2010   6-8   1848
Clueless 2010   9-7   2072
Briareus 2011  12-6   2167
Hippo    2012   4-4   1798
Briareus 2012  10-4   2221

Hippo made a good start, tying OpFor in 2009.  Briareus set a new record, breaking its old record from last year.  Thanks to both developers for taking part!
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by rbarreira on Sep 28th, 2012, 6:55pm

on 09/28/12 at 14:47:10, browni3141 wrote:
Since chessandgo didn't get paired in the mixer rbarreira offered to start a separate game.


Pretty close, actually I asked for a game and he generously accepted ;)

Thanks Fritzlein for the updated results table. Nice to see that the performance rating didn't get worse from last year, and may even have improved with some margin of error.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Hippo on Sep 29th, 2012, 3:00am

on 09/28/12 at 12:14:05, odin73 wrote:
What about c&g´s postal game:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/java/ys/ms4/v5/js_sit.cgi?sid=9134884924&grid=3&rand=24360577 ?
It´s not a part of the mixer event?

I mention that game since I find it quite funny to watch the roaming bot´s horse. ;)



on 09/28/12 at 14:47:10, browni3141 wrote:
That's not part of the mixer. Since chessandgo didn't get paired in the mixer rbarreira offered to start a separate game.
I would probably find it funny too if chessandgo's position didn't worry me.


Wow, briareus traded dog for rabbit what gave it superrior position. It seems to me c&g is out of pieces ...
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by mistre on Oct 2nd, 2012, 8:20am
That is one crazy game Chessandgo and Briareus have going on... 56 moves with no foreseeable end in sight.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by mistre on Oct 8th, 2012, 12:19pm
How many postal games are remaining? I just have one left to finish.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by ChrisB on Oct 8th, 2012, 3:48pm

on 10/08/12 at 12:19:01, mistre wrote:
How many postal games are remaining? I just have one left to finish.


90 down and 9 to go!

The remaining games are:

    Adanac-Nombril
    browni3141-ChrisB
    browni3141-mistre
    ChrisB-Adanac
    ChrisB-Fritzlein
    Fritzlein-Nombril
    Nombril-ChrisB
    woh-ChrisB
    woh-omar

Either browni or Fritz will finish up with the best win-loss difference.  Now it's browni at 13-2 = +11 and Fritz at 9-0 = +9.  briareus is third at 10-4 = +6.  All of the other players are now no higher than +3.

Alfons finished undefeated at 3-0.  The only other player who could finish undefeated is Fritzlein.

The best internal performance ratings, using woh's In Tournament WHR Calculator (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=talk;action=display;num=1264551079) are:

    Fritzlein     2002
    browni3141    1802
    Alfons   .    1769
    chessandgo    1732
    Adanac   .    1692
    bot_briareus  1691

All the other players are now under 1600.  (The "prior" used was one win and one loss against a dummy player
with a fixed rating of 1500.)
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Oct 9th, 2012, 1:07am
Thanks for the update, ChrisB.  Over half the unfinished games are yours?  You have taken over "slow finisher" mantle from woh, who has held it for years, if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Hippo on Oct 9th, 2012, 9:58am

on 10/09/12 at 01:07:59, Fritzlein wrote:
Thanks for the update, ChrisB.  Over half the unfinished games are yours?  You have taken over "slow finisher" mantle from woh, who has held it for years, if I remember correctly.


This title could be shared between them at the end ;) ... but previous year not Herve, but Eric shared it with me.

P.S.: Language question ... among or between?


on 10/09/12 at 10:30:23, novacat wrote:
Use "between" when you are talking about two people/things.  Use "among" if you are talking about more than two people/things.


Thanks novacat, I were not sure if it applies in all cases.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by novacat on Oct 9th, 2012, 10:30am

on 10/09/12 at 09:58:56, Hippo wrote:
P.S.: Language question ... among or between?


Use "between" when you are talking about two people/things.  Use "among" if you are talking about more than two people/things.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by browni3141 on Oct 9th, 2012, 10:36am
I doubt that I will beat Fritzlein in the win-loss category. It seems unlikely that I can win both of my remaining games, and likely that Fritzlein will win his, so I think the best I can do is match him. Either way his undefeated record is much more impressive.
There's a different category that I should have in the bag at least ;)
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Oct 15th, 2012, 12:23am

on 04/21/12 at 08:58:44, mistre wrote:
When is this page going to be updated? http://arimaa.com/arimaa/tourn/postal/2012/showGames.cgi

Now.  It's good to have you back, Omar!  :)
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Hippo on Oct 15th, 2012, 12:31pm

on 10/15/12 at 00:23:32, Fritzlein wrote:
Now.  It's good to have you back, Omar!  :)


Wow :), it's much more fun to watch postal mixer games now ... Nombril, ChrisB, browni and their opponents ... and pseudoPostalMixer game briareus vs. c&g (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/java/ys/ms4/v5/js_sit.cgi?sid=5674128067&grid=3&rand=43898622)
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by browni3141 on Oct 15th, 2012, 12:49pm

on 10/15/12 at 12:31:16, Hippo wrote:
... and pseudoPostalMixer game briareus vs. c&g (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/java/ys/ms4/v5/js_sit.cgi?sid=5674128067&grid=3&rand=43898622)

Looking at this game is depressing me :(
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Oct 15th, 2012, 1:48pm

on 10/15/12 at 12:49:13, browni3141 wrote:
Looking at this game is depressing me :(

When you get your wish and win the World Championship, the pressure will be on you.  Then you will get to have people be disappointed in you for losing.  (Actually maybe a lot of people would enjoy being the point man more than I did.  It is an implicit compliment when everyone expects you to win every game.  I didn't enjoy the pressure, though, so there has been a side benefit of not being the best any more...)
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by browni3141 on Oct 15th, 2012, 8:13pm

on 10/15/12 at 13:48:21, Fritzlein wrote:
Then you will get to have people be disappointed in you for losing.

I guess I'll have to try not to do that then ;)
The stronger I get the more human the top players feel because I still feel pretty human and whoever is left stronger than me must be only a little stronger, and therefore only slightly more inhuman :P. I have to stop pretending that you, chessandgo and hanzack are invincible against these bots at longer time controls. It had felt that way for a long time. This victory for briareus worries me a bit. The gap is getting too thin :(. I hope that we can widen it again.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Oct 16th, 2012, 10:08am

on 10/15/12 at 20:13:29, browni3141 wrote:
This victory for briareus worries me a bit. The gap is getting too thin :(. I hope that we can widen it again.

I agree that the narrowing gap is worrisome, which is why I was glad to see hanzack win the World Championship last year, and why I am rooting for you this year.  We need fresh ideas to push back the boundaries of human understanding of Arimaa.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by mistre on Oct 16th, 2012, 1:47pm
Nice to see it updated  :D

Looks like only 3 games left and the Chessandgo/Briareus debacle.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by browni3141 on Oct 22nd, 2012, 11:35am
And the game is over: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=247433

I think I'll try and look over the game soon.

Only two of the official postal mixer games are left.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by browni3141 on Nov 7th, 2012, 2:34pm
All games have concluded.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by chessandgo on Nov 19th, 2012, 5:21am

on 10/15/12 at 12:49:13, browni3141 wrote:
Looking at this game is depressing me :(


Well if it's depressing you, what do you think it's doing to me? :p
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by ChrisB on Nov 19th, 2012, 11:45pm
Here are the final results:



Results for 2012 Arimaa Postal Mixer                                                                  
FINAL

                                                                 
   .    .    .    .    Number    .    .    .    .    .    . Internal    .   November            
   .    .    Initial   of   .    .    .    .    .    .    . Performance .   13, 2012    Rating      
Player   .    Rating    Games    Won    Lost    W - L .    . Rating  .   .   WHR-P    .  Change      
-----------   ------    ------   ---    ----    ---------    -----------     --------    ---------
                                               
Fritzlein    . 2741    .  11    . 11   .  0    .  11 1st(t) .  2041 1st    .   2833    .    92      
browni3141   . 1799    .  17    . 14   .  3    .  11 1st(t) .  1759 3rd    .   2293    .   494 1st
bot_briareus . 2116    .  14    . 10   .  4    .   6 3rd    .  1699 6th    .   2324    .   208 3rd
Adanac  .    . 2318    .   8    .  6   .  2    .   4 4th    .  1769 2nd    .   2429    .   111      
Alfons  .    . 2308    .   3    .  3   .  0    .   3 5th(t) .  1751 4th    .   2486    .   178 4th
Tellmarch    . 1860    .  19    . 11   .  8    .   3 5th(t) .  1551   .    .   2028    .   169 5th
chessandgo   . 2614    .   4    .  3   .  1    .   2   .    .  1749 5th    .   2503    .  -111      
ChrisB  .    . 2157    .  10    .  6   .  4    .   2   .    .  1598   .    .   2219    .    62      
woh     .    . 1899    .  12    .  7   .  5    .   2   .    .  1499   .    .   2005    .   106      
mistre  .    . 2035    .  13    .  7   .  6    .   1   .    .  1566   .    .   2094    .    59      
bot_Hippo    . 1485    .   8    .  4   .  4    .   0   .    .  1433   .    .   1900    .   415 2nd
Nombril .    . 2373    .  15    .  7   .  8    .  -1   .    .  1531   .    .   2183    .  -190      
geez    .    . 1939    .   5    .  2   .  3    .  -1   .    .  1433   .    .   1865    .   -74      
Dolus   .    . 1743    .   5    .  2   .  3    .  -1   .    .  1361   .    .   1751    .     9      
omar    .    . 2069    .   4    .  1   .  3    .  -2   .    .  1381   .    .   1992    .   -78      
rsjonmoeas   . 1943    .   3    .  0   .  3    .  -3   .    .  1263   .    .   1902    .   -40      
Jacka   .    . 1557    .  10    .  2   .  8    .  -6   .    .  1239   .    .   1646    .    89      
mwest   .    . 1647    .   8    .  0   .  8    .  -8   .    .  1055   .    .   1675    .    29      
hyperpape    . 1514    .  15    .  3   . 12    .  -9   .    .  1243   .    .   1658    .   144 6th
Tuks    .    . 2254    .  14    .  0   . 14    . -14   .    .  1077   .    .   1932    .  -322      

ALL     .    .    .    .  99    . 99   . 99    .   0

The win-loss difference and the internal performance rating are based solely on the 99 postal mixer games.  However, the rating change is based on all rated postal games that finished between the start of the event in April and November 13, 2012.  Thus, the rating change often appears inconsistent with the other results.

The internal performance rating was calculated using woh's  In Tournament WHR Calculator (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=talk;action=display;num=1264551079), with a "prior" of one win and one loss against a dummy player with a fixed rating of 1500.

Fritzlein and browni3141 tied for best win-loss difference, with bot_briareus a distant third.

Fritzlein had the best internal performance rating by a wide margin, with Adanac, browni3141, Alfons and chessandgo tightly bunched for 2nd through 5th.  bot_briareus came in 6th.

browni3141 had the biggest rating improvement, with bot_Hippo not too far behind.  bot_briareus came in a distant third.

The only undefeated players over the time of the event were Fritzlein (11-0 in the mixer and 0-0 in other rated postal games) and Alfons (3-0 in the mixer and 8-0 in other rated postal games).  Go Rockies!

Quite an impressive performance by the two bots!
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Fritzlein on Nov 20th, 2012, 9:05am
Thanks for the summary, ChrisB.  I need to file away a last moment of glory before browni and Alfons start dominating future Postal Mixers.
Title: Re: 2012 Postal Mixer
Post by Hippo on Nov 20th, 2012, 11:43am
bot_Hippo gained a lot of rating points in the autopostals, but now it will lost a lot of them ... it is losing in most of it's games now.


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