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Arimaa >> Events >> Endless Endgame Event?
(Message started by: clyring on May 12th, 2012, 8:59am)

Title: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on May 12th, 2012, 8:59am
For an overview of this event, please see its wiki page (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Endless_Endgame_Event).


Original post content:
I've read a few times that computers in Arimaa are much stronger in the endgame (and have seen enough of them to know why). I propose that this be changed- although we may never catch up to computers in the endgame, I see no reason for us not to try. I don't want to believe that the endgame is entirely intractable for humanity!  >:(

As for how I propose this done, the thread title should be enough of a hint. What better way to foster the development of endgame theory than to encourage players to play from endgame positions?

The first issue to resolve is scheduling games with custom starting positions, but Omar's last post in the 'mob vs gang' thread seems to imply that this is possible. Other issues may arise, though...


Old rules: (Left here for my own reference when I write up new official rules)
-Randomized initial setups (first 2 ranks?), to add to variety and ensure that the endgame theory and skills that are likely to develop are broad and can apply in games of regular Arimaa rather than just a few specific positions.
-Use the same setup for every game within a given round.
-What material balances? I choose: "Randomly choose the number of every piece type except the elephant, discarding setups with more than 12 or fewer than 4 pieces per side. (That is: 50% chance of a camel on each side, randomly any of 0-2 horses/side, any of 0-2 dogs/side, any of 0-2 cats/side, and any of 1-8 rabbits/side)"
-Reflection vs rotation for silver setup... I would guess that since your strong wing is conversely your opponent's weak wing when using rotation, I would guess play would focus more on exploiting weaknesses than on creating them, at least relative to using reflection. However, both creating and using weaknesses are important. I will for now simply randomly choose which the setup is.
-Balance. Simply limiting gold's first move to two steps will probably work well enough. If gold violates this, automatic forfeit.
-Pairings (every other Monday at 2359 UTC). I would ideally like to see a 'WHREndgame' and use it to perform pairings... ;)
---I would, as a player, like to see a variety of opponents, not only in name, but in skill. Further, I believe that mismatches are important as learning experiences, but not so much when taken to extremes. (That is, a mismatch of 400 or more elo is ridiculous.)
---The system currently in use is this: Select an unpaired player at random, then generate a normally distributed random number with standard deviation 150 centered around their rating and select from the list of unpaired opponents (excluding the last 3* played) the one whose rating is closest to the normally distributed number as the first player's opponent. If there is no legal opponent, restart the pairing process from the beginning. If there are an odd number of players, when the second-to-last bot is paired, the remaining bot will immediately be paired against a dummy player unless this bot also did not play in the previous 3* rounds, in which case the pairing process will be restarted. After all players have been paired but before the pairings are posted, the pairs will be sorted by total current WHREND rating. *If there are no legal pairings using 3 rounds, I will use the highest possible value for the number of rounds since the most recent non-playing round of the bot eventually paired to the dummy (up to 3 rounds) and then the highest possible value for the number of rounds since the last repeat pairing (up to 3 rounds) in strict priority.
-Time control: 2m/0/100/0/6h/6m (or equivalent)
-All games should, of course, be unrated and affect neither the gameroom ratings nor the WHR ratings for regular games (WHRH, WHRP, and WHRE). Games will still affect my own WHREND ratings.


Is there interest in something like this?
Are there suggestions for improving this?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on May 12th, 2012, 1:54pm
I think at the very least players should be able to setup and play any position as an unrated game.

On the topic of engines and Arimaa endgames, I've never been impressed with their play. Perhaps I haven't played strong enough bots or let the board get empty enough for them to shine.
While it makes sense that bots should perform better, it also makes sense in a way that they might not.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by chessandgo on May 12th, 2012, 2:08pm
I'd like to be able to play endgames-only arimaa games as well.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Fritzlein on May 12th, 2012, 2:48pm
I'm interested in endgame play; I'm tying to think what would be the most plausible code modification.  Omar is unlikely to prioritize this, but the client code is open, so if someone modified the client in a way that left relatively simple server-side modifications, then it might actually happen.

The simplest thing I can think of is a client that allows setting up with fewer than the full set of pieces.  Maybe reserve the single click for swapping piece locations, and let a double-click zap a piece off the board.  Double-clicking on an empty home square could bring back a piece that was earlier zapped.  Also to prevent the feature from annoying people who don't want it, make the ability to remove pieces during setup available only when "expert mode" is turned on, and only if the game is unrated.  While we're at it (if expert mode is turned on and the game is unrated) allow pieces to be set up anywhere on the board.

I don't think it is necessary to code alternate rules about the setup.  Let the players decide what their alternate rules are, and enforce the rules themselves by leaving the game if they can't agree.  Better to give the players great flexibility, so that when they decide some other variant rules are even better, no new coding has to happen.

I have a hunch that modifying the client setup code is the most realistic code path than a tool to create games with arbitrary setup, not least because a non-Omar person could do the bulk of it.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on May 12th, 2012, 4:30pm
Fritzlein, I think you've missed too much of what I am suggesting happen by focusing instead on how I initially thought of implementing it. Please see the thread title. If all I wanted were a more convenient way for players to start with reduced material, I would say nothing and instead continue with the mutual agreement to sacrifice pieces that has worked so well so far. I am looking to create a motivator in the form of an endless (or continuous, if you prefer ;)) endgame event such that more people actually play these endgame positions and the beginnings of endgame theory can develop sooner rather than later.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on May 13th, 2012, 3:57am

on 05/12/12 at 13:54:47, browni3141 wrote:
While it makes sense that bots should perform better, it also makes sense in a way that they might not.


When humans routinely miss goal-in-2 opportunities (both for and against them), which bots can often find in less than one second, it's hard to believe that humans have the edge in sharp endgames. Even some rare goal-in-1 moves can be hard to see optically without shuffling pieces on the board...

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Fritzlein on May 13th, 2012, 9:47am

on 05/12/12 at 16:30:57, clyring wrote:
Fritzlein, I think you've missed too much of what I am suggesting happen by focusing instead on how I initially thought of implementing it.

The tournament is a good idea.  I hope it happens.  I hope a lot of people participate in it.

[EDIT]
I shouldn't have responded so defensively, but clyring quoted me before I thought better of it!  :)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on May 13th, 2012, 11:42am

on 05/13/12 at 09:47:26, Fritzlein wrote:
Before posting, I did read your suggestion in its entirety.  Do you think there could have been a good reason that I focused on only one part in my response?  Or must my limited response have been due to my failure to comprehend the full glory of your proposal?
As you made no mention in your earlier post of the event itself, it was unclear from what context you were writing. I do not mean to insult you, only to ensure that you were considering it from the context of an entire event and not just one game. The second-to-last paragraph of your previous post in particular confuses me when looking at it from the perspective of a tournament- I could hardly call it a competition if, in each matchup, the players use completely different rules.

on 05/13/12 at 09:47:26, Fritzlein wrote:
The harder something is to implement in code, the less likely it is to happen, regardless of how fun it would be.  I have participated in too many "wouldn't it be neato if..." discussions that were then dropped with nothing happening, because the expectation was that Omar would do all the work to implement the entire, exact feature set that had been proposed.  Yes, it matters how nifty your idea is, but also it matters who is going to make it happen and how.  My thoughts are guided to separate the part that you (or some other enthusiastic volunteer) can make happen without Omar from the part that requires Omar to write new code himself.
I don't want to participate in a "wouldn't it be neato if" discussion, but I suppose I deserve this one for listing it as "the first issue to resolve" when in fact it interferes only with the convenience of the players- as things are, the players could simply suicide pieces en masse to create a position I give them before the game and then begin play, but that would be a great hassle for all involved and something that I would like to avoid if possible.

on 05/13/12 at 09:47:26, Fritzlein wrote:
Furthermore, there have been other variant proposals before yours and there will be others after.  I think there is merit in a client modification that subsumes many variant setups all at once, allowing players to experiment not just with (say) symmetrical endgame setups, but also asymmetrical ones, and arbitrary positions they feel like playing out.  Is it wrong of me to muse that, if a code change has to be made, we might make it more general for no extra work?
I never wrote that any code changes must be specific to this event- I would prefer that they be adaptable as well. Adding in specific code to tell the client to generate randomly a setup according to an arbitrarily chosen selection procedure that is only used for one event is more work and gets less done than just allowing a setup editor either in the client or in the scheduling tool. I would not knowingly ask anyone to do such a thing.

on 05/13/12 at 09:47:26, Fritzlein wrote:
If the only obstacle to your event were pairings, you could do them by hand for a small number of players, as I initially did for the Continuous Tournament that I ran.  I didn't ask Omar to implement my pet pairing scheme.  That enabled the Continuous Tournament to get off the ground with less waiting on Omar.  Before long, woh stepped in with a program to automate the maintenance of standings and pairings for me according my peculiar scheme (never used before or since, I might add).  My last post didn't focus on your pairing proposal, because that isn't the biggest technical obstacle to your event happening.
I agree that the pairings are not the biggest obstacle here.

on 05/13/12 at 09:47:26, Fritzlein wrote:
I thought my response was constructive, in that I was brainstorming about the best way to get over the biggest hurdle, but if it was unwelcome then I will bow out.
Your suggested client modification would also speed things along and is a good alternative that I would just as much like to see.

EDIT:

on 05/13/12 at 09:47:26, Fritzlein wrote:
The tournament is a good idea.  I hope it happens.  I hope a lot of people participate in it.

Thank you.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on May 13th, 2012, 7:00pm

on 05/13/12 at 03:57:53, rbarreira wrote:
When humans routinely miss goal-in-2 opportunities (both for and against them), which bots can often find in less than one second, it's hard to believe that humans have the edge in sharp endgames. Even some rare goal-in-1 moves can be hard to see optically without shuffling pieces on the board...


I was thinking about the point where the board is fairly empty, but goal threats and tactics don't completely dominate. There are still strategic elements. I was thinking that bots might not be so strong at this point because their evaluation is tuned for fuller boards, and different things become important as pieces come off the board. I don't know how accurate this is and it certainly will depend on the bot. How does briareus handle this?
I don't think goals in two are as big a deal for humans as you make them out to be. Most goals in two are fairly easy to see. At least in my opinion it only starts to get difficult beyond that. I hope to reach the point where it is almost unheard of to miss a goal in two  :)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Fritzlein on May 14th, 2012, 12:19am

on 05/13/12 at 19:00:34, browni3141 wrote:
I hope to reach the point where it is almost unheard of to miss a goal in two  :)

I just hope that I don't lose any more World Championship games by missing goal in two.  ::)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on May 14th, 2012, 3:13am

on 05/13/12 at 19:00:34, browni3141 wrote:
I was thinking about the point where the board is fairly empty, but goal threats and tactics don't completely dominate. There are still strategic elements. I was thinking that bots might not be so strong at this point because their evaluation is tuned for fuller boards, and different things become important as pieces come off the board. I don't know how accurate this is and it certainly will depend on the bot. How does briareus handle this?
I don't think goals in two are as big a deal for humans as you make them out to be. Most goals in two are fairly easy to see. At least in my opinion it only starts to get difficult beyond that. I hope to reach the point where it is almost unheard of to miss a goal in two  :)


Briareus is not one of the best bots when it comes to "advancing rabbits" strategy, I think Marwin is better at that. It's only when the position gets sharp that I think it starts playing better.

It was very interesting when jdb had bot_clueless playing NoMHH (i.e. no camels/horses on either side) games online, and I've been thinking about doing the same with briareus. Watch out for that (maybe later today now) if you're interested.

As for my comments about goals-in-2, they're based on the fact that I recall several instances of players missing them, sometimes even in postal games.




Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by hyperpape on May 14th, 2012, 7:50am

Quote:
-Randomized initial setups (first 2 ranks?), to add to variety and ensure that the endgame theory and skills that are likely to develop are broad and can apply in games of regular arimaa rather than just a few specific positions.
Why not just grab a bunch of interesting positions from actual games? Take a game that had a complicated endgame and back up 5, 10 or 15 moves to reach a point where you're not just looking for goal in two threats, and play from there.  

That way, you ensure that the positions are ones that plausibly arise in real games.

There is a worry that it may be hard to find even games, and therefore it might be hard to build a rating system. In my opinion, the rating system is the least interesting part of this exercise, but I suspect others would differ.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by mistre on May 14th, 2012, 9:27am
Another idea might be to set up a mob vs bot postal game with reduced material.  That way everyone can learn collectively about a bot's strengths and weaknesses in the endgame at a slow pace.

I think this idea will give the most "bang for the buck" without a great deal of setup and customization that a more detailed proposal such as yours would require.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on May 14th, 2012, 9:37am

on 05/14/12 at 03:13:32, rbarreira wrote:
As for my comments about goals-in-2, they're based on the fact that I recall several instances of players missing them, sometimes even in postal games.


:) Yep, I agree. I often see a goal in 2 which actually can be defended ... . At least in the "almost mentioned" postal with Nombril.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on May 14th, 2012, 6:42pm
no_MHH briareus didn't play very well in my first game with it, but I must say I'm impressed that it apparently sees forced goal before I even know it is close (31g).
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=230109

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Fritzlein on May 15th, 2012, 6:03am

on 05/14/12 at 18:42:27, browni3141 wrote:
but I must say I'm impressed that it apparently sees forced goal before I even know it is close (31g).
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=230109

Perhaps 31g is responding to the threat that you would switch your dog and rabbit on a3 and b3?  (That better not have been a goal in two on 31s, since you don't miss those ;))

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on May 15th, 2012, 9:36am

on 05/15/12 at 06:03:11, Fritzlein wrote:
Perhaps 31g is responding to the threat that you would switch your dog and rabbit on a3 and b3?  (That better not have been a goal in two on 31s, since you don't miss those ;))


Indeed 31s db3n db4w ra3e da4s is a forced win, but according to the bot it's a goal-in-3:

31s db3n db4w ra3e da4s
32g Ed2s Ed1w Rb1w Ec1w
32s Rf5n Rf6x df4n De3n ed3e
... and the goal threat is unstoppable so silver goals on 33s.

So browni3141 did not miss a goal-in-2 here, but in another game he played yesterday he did miss a goal-in-2 against him at 18g:

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=230097

18g Cat to f1 seems to defend for the time being.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on May 15th, 2012, 3:21pm
I'd like to revise my previous statement and say that goals in two should be easy. I could argue that that game you cited was a blitz game, and that 15s isn't quite enough time to find all goals in two, but I'm sure you could find instances where I miss goal in two in longer games. Even if I went as far as saying that it only counts if the game is at least 45s per move and the goal missed was in a critical position (the miss potentially would affect the outcome of the game), you could probably find one. I think if we practiced tactics more perhaps we could be nearly immune to these mistakes. Perhaps becoming a tactical monster will help me on my quest to become WC.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on May 16th, 2012, 5:54pm
It looks like briareus just allowed a preventable goal in one in this game on move 45g
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=230281
I guess humans aren't the only ones that need to work on tactics  ;). Of course it's probably just a bug.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on May 17th, 2012, 3:42am

on 05/16/12 at 17:54:29, browni3141 wrote:
It looks like briareus just allowed a preventable goal in one in this game on move 45g
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=230281
I guess humans aren't the only ones that need to work on tactics  ;). Of course it's probably just a bug.


Thanks, replied in the game comments :)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on May 20th, 2012, 12:48am

on 05/14/12 at 07:50:17, hyperpape wrote:
Why not just grab a bunch of interesting positions from actual games? Take a game that had a complicated endgame and back up 5, 10 or 15 moves to reach a point where you're not just looking for goal in two threats, and play from there.  

That way, you ensure that the positions are ones that plausibly arise in real games.

There is a worry that it may be hard to find even games, and therefore it might be hard to build a rating system. In my opinion, the rating system is the least interesting part of this exercise, but I suspect others would differ.

I like the idea of using real-game positions for this, but it seems to bring up a number of issues:

-How would positions be selected for addition to the lineup?
-What can be done about positions which display a significant advantage for one side?
-Have there been enough such positions that this method could be implemented without position-specific theory developing?
-How far back from the end of the game should the positions be taken?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on May 20th, 2012, 12:51am

on 05/14/12 at 09:27:03, mistre wrote:
Another idea might be to set up a mob vs bot postal game with reduced material.  That way everyone can learn collectively about a bot's strengths and weaknesses in the endgame at a slow pace.

I think this idea will give the most "bang for the buck" without a great deal of setup and customization that a more detailed proposal such as yours would require.


This would indeed require much less setup effort, but I strongly suspect it would also yield much less progress. How long will it take? Can the mob handle two games at once? How likely is the mob to play a risky experiment? Will a bot learn the mob's strategies and try specifically to counter them? How useful will reviewing the game be when the silicon opponent has nothing to add?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by hyperpape on May 20th, 2012, 7:32pm

Quote:
How would positions be selected for addition to the lineup?
Someone looks and chooses. I suppose there is no great way to organize that.

Quote:
What can be done about positions which display a significant advantage for one side?
Try to avoid them. For that reason, we'd want solid players to choose the positions.

Quote:
Have there been enough such positions that this method could be implemented without position-specific theory developing?
There have been a lot of Arimaa games. I'd be surprised if there weren't enough.

Quote:
How far back from the end of the game should the positions be taken?
As far back as they "look like an endgame".

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by mistre on May 21st, 2012, 9:09am

on 05/20/12 at 00:51:38, clyring wrote:
This would indeed require much less setup effort, but I strongly suspect it would also yield much less progress. How long will it take? Can the mob handle two games at once? How likely is the mob to play a risky experiment? Will a bot learn the mob's strategies and try specifically to counter them? How useful will reviewing the game be when the silicon opponent has nothing to add?


All valid concerns.  It was just meant as a suggestion and I wouldn't be the one to pursue it anyways as I have plenty of other stuff keeping me busy.

It appears that being able to play Bot_NoMHH in the gameroom is a first step in the direction you want to go.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on May 23rd, 2012, 7:32am

on 05/20/12 at 19:32:01, hyperpape wrote:
Try to avoid them. For that reason, we'd want solid players to choose the positions.
Ah, then you see the problem here: There are not yet any solid players in the endgame.


on 05/20/12 at 19:32:01, hyperpape wrote:
There have been a lot of Arimaa games. I'd be surprised if there weren't enough.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were, but relatively few games trade down into an almost-even endgame. I'd estimate that at least 100 of them would be needed, and considering how few games trade down evenly, it would also not surprise me if we could not yet find enough using only real-game positions. This is something to consider before starting to scan through the long list of played games, not after.

on 05/20/12 at 19:32:01, hyperpape wrote:
As far back as they "look like an endgame".
But when does a position "look like an endgame?" I suppose "when neither player can defend without putting themselves at a large disadvantage" would be a criterion, but who is currently capable of judging this accurately?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by hyperpape on May 23rd, 2012, 2:56pm

Quote:
Ah, then you see the problem here: There are not yet any solid players in the endgame.
There is no one who can look at an endgame position and guess whether it's equal with at least some reliability? Bear in mind that the penalty for a false positive is some degree of wasted time, not something disastrous.  If your goal is to make an accurate rating system, you need to be terribly fearful of uneven setups. If you just want interesting games that teach about the endgame, then you don't.


Quote:
I wouldn't be surprised if there were, but relatively few games trade down into an almost-even endgame. I'd estimate that at least 100 of them would be needed, and considering how few games trade down evenly, it would also not surprise me if we could not yet find enough using only real-game positions. This is something to consider before starting to scan through the long list of played games, not after.
I don't see why you'd even need 100. Not to start with, at least. And I'm not so sure there aren't games that trade down. I feel like they're pretty common (the games don't have to be expert games, since you're just snapshotting a position).  But if there were a script to verify the existence of materially even games, that would be great.


Quote:
But when does a position "look like an endgame?" I suppose "when neither player can defend without putting themselves at a large disadvantage" would be a criterion, but who is currently capable of judging this accurately?
I'm not sure I understand why you'd choose this criterion.

Players and commentators talk about games being in the endgame all the time. This thread depends on us knowing an endgame when we see one--otherwise how would we have noticed that bots are better at them?

Honestly, it seems like this is the strange situation where you're proposing a great idea while also potentially bikeshedding it.

So as not to do my own bikeshedding, let me say that if you insist on random setups, that's not necessarily a disaster. It just has the problem that you won't have setups that are likely to ever arise in real games.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jul 11th, 2012, 5:50am

on 05/13/12 at 11:42:59, clyring wrote:
I don't want to participate in a "wouldn't it be neato if" discussion, but I suppose I deserve this one for listing it as "the first issue to resolve" when in fact it interferes only with the convenience of the players- as things are, the players could simply suicide pieces en masse to create a position I give them before the game and then begin play, but that would be a great hassle for all involved and something that I would like to avoid if possible.

In a few hours, it will have been 60 days since I first posted this topic. I take this as clear evidence that avoiding this inconvenience will not be possible anytime soon. However, I still have a strong desire to make this event happen. Anyone still interested in participating is free to contact me via PM on the forum before 2359 UTC Monday.

-I don't think I've yet addressed the issue of time controls. If there are no objections, I'll proceed with 2/0/100/0/90t/6.

Title: EEE Week 1 Pairings
Post by clyring on Jul 16th, 2012, 7:39pm
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=1cr1rrrr/2e2r1c/////2E2R1C/1CR1RRRR


browni3141 (1500) vs supersamu (1500) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=238543)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by supersamu on Jul 17th, 2012, 12:48pm
I have a proposal: Silver should start with two moves; Then gold does 4 moves.
After this the game progresses as usual. This would minimize the starting advantage of gold.

Since we cannot start a game at this point, we would have a bit of time in reserve as soon as we start the game from this point on. Is this intended?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 17th, 2012, 5:43pm

on 07/17/12 at 12:48:28, supersamu wrote:
I have a proposal: Silver should start with two moves; Then gold does 4 moves.
After this the game progresses as usual. This would minimize the starting advantage of gold.

Interesting: Until now I have always seen the reverse proposal, namely Gold starts with two steps and then Silver continues with four.  Since the setup is mirrored, the effect is identical.  I guess the only reason to choose one over the other is that there is a tradition of having Gold move first.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jul 17th, 2012, 9:06pm

on 07/17/12 at 12:48:28, supersamu wrote:
I have a proposal: Silver should start with two moves; Then gold does 4 moves.
After this the game progresses as usual. This would minimize the starting advantage of gold.
I've already made a similar rule for this event, except with gold moving first with only two steps. See the first post in this thread.

on 05/12/12 at 08:59:51, clyring wrote:
-Balance. Simply limiting gold's first move to two steps will probably work well enough. If gold violates this, automatic forfeit.
Why have gold move first instead of silver? The first reason is tradition, as Fritzlein mentioned, and the second is a practical matter. The client will have gold begin the setup process anyway, so requiring silver to make the first move requires gold not only to setup their pieces, but intentionally take one move longer than needed to do so.

on 07/17/12 at 12:48:28, supersamu wrote:
Since we cannot start a game at this point, we would have a bit of time in reserve as soon as we start the game from this point on. Is this intended?
It's not exactly intended, but it is why there is no initial reserve in the time control being used. You'll already get plenty enough from actually setting the pieces up.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by supersamu on Jul 20th, 2012, 9:57am
I don´t know if this is the right place to post this, but i have a proposal:
I think there is a way to setup and play a position against a bot without making changes to the client.
It could work this way:
The player chats the moves that he wants the bot to play.
Of course the player has to chat the moves before the bot would make a move, and the games should be unrated.
I don´t know about bots, but this could be easy to implement.

@ rbarreira:
If your bot is ready playing the game using the starting position from the Endless Endgame Event, could you please post the results here?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on Jul 20th, 2012, 10:06am

on 07/20/12 at 09:57:03, supersamu wrote:
@ rbarreira:
If your bot is ready playing the game using the starting position from the Endless Endgame Event, could you please post the results here?


It's not done yet, but I'll paste the moves here and update it once in a while. 5g was not a great move of course (but I guess it compensates giving it 4 steps for the first move)... You can paste the moves in the game planner (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/planGame.cgi)


EDIT - it's over now. This was at 1 hour per turn:

1g Cb1 Rc1 Re1 Rf1 Rg1 Rh1 Ec2 Rf2 Ch2
1s ec7 rf7 ch7 cb8 rc8 re8 rf8 rg8 rh8
2g Ec2w Eb2n Eb3n Eb4n
2s ec7w ch7w eb7s cg7s
3g Eb5w Ea5n Ea6n Ea7e
3s eb6s eb5s eb4s eb3s
4g Eb7e cb8s Rf2w Re2n
4s re8w rc8w rf8w cb7w
5g Ec7w Eb7e ca7e Re3n
5s rb8w ra8s ra7s ra6s
6g Cb1w Re1w Re4w Ca1n
6s cg6w cf6w ra5e rb5s
7g Rd4w Rc1w Rd1w Rc1n
7s Rc2s eb2e rb4s rb3e
8g Rf1w Re1n Re2n Re3w
8s rd8w ce6s ce5s ce4s
9g Ch2w Rc4e Rd4n Rd5n
9s re8w rf7w Rd3n ce3w
10g Ca2e Cg2w Cf2w Ce2w
10s cd3e rc3e Cd2s ec2e
11g Cd1e Rd6e Ec7e Rc1e
11s rd8e rc8e ed2w rd3s
12g Rd4w Ce1n Rb1e Rc4n
12s Cb2n ec2w ce3w cb7e
13g Ce2s rd2e re2n Ce1n
13s cd3n cd4n Rc5n Rc6x cd5w
14g re3e rf3x Ce2n Rc1n Ce3n
14s Cb3e eb2n cc5e cd5n
15g cd6s Ed7s Cc3e Ce4n
15s re8e rd8w cc7e rc8s
16g cd7n Ed6n Ce5e Re6e
16s cd5e rf8s eb3n ce5n
17g rc7s rc6x Ed7w Rf6e Cf5n
17s re7w ce6n rf7e ce7e
18g rd7e Ec7e re7s Ed7e
18s rg8w rg7e cf7e rf8w
19g Cf6s re6e rf6x Ee7e re8s
19s Rg6e cg7s Rh6s cg6e
20g Ef7s re7e Ef6e rf7s rf6x
20s Rh5s ch6s eb4e ec4e
21g Rd1n Cd3w Cf5n Cc3w
21s ed4n ed5e ee5n ee6n
22g Cf6s Eg6w Ef6w Cf5e
22s cd8w cc8w ee7w ed7s
23g Cg5n Rc2n Rd2n Rc3n
23s cb8s cb7s ed6s
24g Ee6w Rc4n Cg6s Cg5w
24s ed5e Rc5e ee5n Rd5e
25g Re5w Rd5w Rc5n Rc6n
25s ee6n ee7w Rc7s ed7w
26g Rd3e Re3n Re4n Re5n
26s ec7e Rc6n cb6e cc6x rh7w
27g Cb3w Ed6w Rh1n Rc7n Ec6x

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by chessandgo on Jul 21st, 2012, 4:45am
Clyring, is is still possible to register to this event?

@Ricardo: there's some serious defense going on there :) It'd be cool if briareus could participate. You know, to settle for good and all... who holds sway, over the arimaa engame.

Hmmm, now I realize that when I have to google for ten minutes before finding out the quote, and then point out that it's from Gangs of NY, then it certainly doesn't count :)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jul 21st, 2012, 6:56am
chessandgo: Registration is always open until further notice.

As for bots participating, that would be nice, but keep in mind that the bot will need to handle the custom setups and be able to play only two steps on the first turn as gold. I also want to avoid having too many bots on the list...

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by chessandgo on Jul 21st, 2012, 9:38am
alright, so I register :) When's the next game?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by odin73 on Jul 21st, 2012, 12:04pm
I also would like to play. :)

It will be always the suggested starting configuration (eccrrrrrr)?

We could introduce a round of 2 games between two players meaning that each player can start for one time as gold, i.e. the beginnig player?
Which player is at first at gold side could be defined by throwing a coin.  

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jul 21st, 2012, 3:26pm
-I'll run the pairings at roughly the same time each week.
-I intended for there to be a different setup for each game, but now that I think about it more, it might be better if every game in a given week has the same setup.
-2 games per match with reversed colors seems like too much for me. At 2 mins/move, the scheduling issues might be too much then.

-About the setups: From experience, positions with a shortage of rabbits tend to behave very differently from positions with an abundance of rabbits, so I've decided to remove the option for setups with 4 or fewer rabbits.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by chessandgo on Jul 22nd, 2012, 4:15am

on 07/21/12 at 15:26:13, clyring wrote:
-About the setups: From experience, positions with a shortage of rabbits tend to behave very differently from positions with an abundance of rabbits, so I've decided to remove the option for setups with 4 or fewer rabbits.


Oh. Are you sure you don't want to remove setups with too many pieces (for example >10) [edit : pieces meaning "with rabbits included") instead? If I understand correctly with a little bit of unluck we could get an almost full board, especially with R>4 enforced. It seems to me that few rabbits make very interesting positions as well.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jul 22nd, 2012, 8:13am
Interesting, but a different kind of interesting. Pieces < 10 still isn't enough to ensure 'endgame-like' positions with goal attacks being the main idea. For example, this position has only 9 pieces per side but hardly seems to play like a 'typical' endgame.
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=1rc1c2e/1r2hhdd/////1R2HHDD/1RC1C2E
(See also game 230006.)

On the other hand, if the primary goal of this event is to accelerate the development of endgame theory, is knowing when you have enough rabbits in reserve to launch a useful goal attack not a part of endgame theory? Setting an upper bound on the number of pieces seems useful either way, but I might prefer 12 instead of 10. (It seems arbitrary where to draw the line...)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by odin73 on Jul 22nd, 2012, 1:32pm
I find this position is too constructed. It will never occur in reality.

Beside ERR/err there is only six pieces on each side. When you scatter these pieces as well as the remaining rabbits around all four traps it could again have a strong endgame character depending on the position of the rabbits and the balance of each trap control (consider as well elephant on 6th line beside a trap and a rabbit already on 7th line).

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by odin73 on Jul 22nd, 2012, 1:56pm
Just take this starting position:

1w Rb6 Rc2 Cc5 Cg4 Df1 De8 He5 Hf7 Eb2
1b rb3 rc7 cc4 cg5 df8 de1 he4 hf2 eb7

When Gold has only 2 steps I don´t find it trivial.

By the way: How can I post an image of a position directly?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jul 22nd, 2012, 2:33pm
What, did you expect a randomly generated position to be particularly realistic? (Placing the pieces on more natural squares is no particularly difficult task...) That the position can become highly tactical in the future is almost useless given that this is true of nearly any position.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by odin73 on Jul 23rd, 2012, 4:30am
Maybe the main lack of a constructed position is that it is contructed..

All real positions have its history meaning that one can find a certain structure due to the previous game. But in most cases "one can see" that it is a real position.

An advantage of placing all pieces in the first two ranks (as you proposed) is that the game can develop quickly within a few moves to a more realistic endgame position. For this reason I would play any time with your proposed starting position.

It might be interesting to randomize the position of all pieces of the initial setup limited to the first or at most first two lines (if we intend to establish a more flexible solution for exercising endgame positions)?
In this case we could scatter arbitrary piece combinations from ERRerr to ERRRRRRRerrrrrrrr or EHHDDCCRRehhddccrr and so on.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by chessandgo on Jul 23rd, 2012, 7:14am
I think the "non-endgame" feeling that you might have in the above position comes from the too numerous (non-rabbit)pieces, not the lack of rabbits. How about a rule like "at most 5 o(r w/e) non-rabbit pieces" if you want to rule this type of endgame out?

Although I think it's a perfectly valid type of endgame. Could happen when players both manage to stop the opponent's goal attack and start capturing rabbits in turns. I seem to recall an Adanac-robinson game from the 2006 WC where they finish with a tense endgame with one or two rabbits each?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by aaaa on Jul 23rd, 2012, 8:20am

on 07/23/12 at 07:14:39, chessandgo wrote:
I seem to recall an Adanac-robinson game from the 2006 WC where they finish with a tense endgame with one or two rabbits each?

Here (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=22999) it is.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by chessandgo on Jul 23rd, 2012, 1:43pm
Yeah that's the one, thanks! Oh my, are you sure you don't wanna play that endgame starting on 77g (with a two-step move in the actual game!)?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jul 23rd, 2012, 6:59pm
To call such positions uninteresting would be to lie. I merely suggest that they are interesting for different reasons than are 'typical' endgames. But is different bad? No. Now that I have thought more, I don't want every position that is used in this event to strategically require exactly the same approach.




Week 2 setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=1rre/r3h1rc/////R3H1RC/1RRE


chessandgo (1500) vs browni3141 (1592) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=239799)
odin73 (1500) vs clyring (1500) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=239402)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Jul 23rd, 2012, 8:35pm
What if somebody tries to get an advantage by studying the position before the game? This seems a little bit unfair.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jul 23rd, 2012, 8:48pm
All players are allowed to study the position. There is no real way to stop this since withholding the position until the game's start would require me to attend every game- a commitment I am unwilling to make. Allowing players to see the positions in advance also permits the added benefit of using the same setup for each game during a week and seeing the thoughts on it from a greater variety of players.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Fritzlein on Jul 24th, 2012, 1:03am
What about rotational symmetry instead of mirror symmetry?  Mirror symmetry leads to positions where strength meets strength and weakness meets weaknees, whereas rotational symmetry leads to positions where strength meets weakness and weakness meets strength.  I'm not sure which is more typical and I'm not sure how to play in either case, but I imagine both types are common and thus both important.

I'm interested in this round, but soon will be travelling, so I will probably miss the live games and discussion. :-/

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by chessandgo on Jul 24th, 2012, 5:59am
I haven't seen a reference to scheduling. Do players play the game when want to? If that's so, when do you want to play browni?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jul 24th, 2012, 11:07am
There is no formal scheduling system in place.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by odin73 on Jul 24th, 2012, 1:05pm
clyring, you live in the US. do you have a general time window to play?

possible days from my side for the remaining week are from tomorrow to friday. you may send me a message for further timing arrangement.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jul 26th, 2012, 10:37am
Since the gameroom apparently doesn't handle the 90t properly, I suppose it should just be changed to 6h.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Jul 26th, 2012, 11:37am
chessandgo, how about we just play next time you are online? As long as I am also of course. We seem to be on at some of the same times.

Title: EEE Week 3 Setup & Pairings
Post by clyring on Jul 30th, 2012, 6:59pm
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=1hccrrr/h2rre/////H2RRE/1HCCRRR


clyring (1617) vs chessandgo (1421) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=240473)
odin73 (1408) vs supersamu (1426) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=240189)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Jul 31st, 2012, 12:30pm
Can I join for the next round?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jul 31st, 2012, 2:08pm
Yes. Will you?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Jul 31st, 2012, 3:55pm
That's an interesting position, too bad I don't get to play it. I guess they are all interesting but this one is really imbalanced.

Edit: Good luck to all players! I'm not sure what to think about clyring vs. chessandgo. clrying has been doing this longer, but chessandgo is chessandgo. Hopefully it will turn out to be pretty even. I think experience with endgames should trump experience and skill in a normal game, but it would be crazy to underestimate chessandgo ;)
I will hopefully be able to watch and comment on both games. I'm not sure that I should give my thoughts on the position here though.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Aug 1st, 2012, 7:25pm
For anyone that wants to watch it live, chessandgo and I will be playing our game around 1600 UTC Sunday.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by chessandgo on Aug 5th, 2012, 11:16am

on 07/31/12 at 15:55:46, browni3141 wrote:
I think experience with endgames should trump experience and skill in a normal game, but it would be crazy to underestimate chessandgo ;)

Man, I was playing endgames long before you or clyring had even heard about arimaa :p

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Aug 5th, 2012, 12:22pm
Are you sure you want to remove any excuse for when you lose? :P

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by qswanger on Aug 5th, 2012, 2:14pm
Wow, these endgame experiments (as I prefer to call them) are truly very interesting. I can see how a totally different skill set would be required to play them and play them well. Of course the trick is to have the opening and middlegame skills, not to mention the stamina, to get there in the first place! This exercise reminds me of something I thought I read about some time ago regarding the initial stages of Omar's development and evolution of Arimaa's rules where he and Aamir would play chess with just the Kings and Pawns, basically racing to get a promotion. I too did that (earlier by many years) by setting up the Kings and Pawns on their traditional starting squares on my old electronic Excaliber chess computer and then playing from there. It 'twas a nice diversion from the full-complement-of-pieces game.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by chessandgo on Aug 6th, 2012, 1:26pm
Don't need no excuse when my opponent simply played better :)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Aug 6th, 2012, 7:00pm
Week 4 setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=2d1d1r/4ehh/////4EHH/2D1D1R


clyring (1664) vs browni3141 (1627) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=241192)
odin73 (1485) vs chessandgo (1374) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=241321)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Aug 6th, 2012, 7:32pm
Whoops! I forgot to make sure the setup had 12 or fewer pieces. It should be fixed now.
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=100&imgtype=jpeg&ranks=d1rrrrrc/2rmrrce/////2RMRRCE/D1RRRRRC -> http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=100&imgtype=jpeg&ranks=2d1d1r/4ehh/////4EHH/2D1D1R




It had to happen eventually- #1 vs #2 in the top matchup- definitely one to watch.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Aug 6th, 2012, 8:14pm
Only one rabbit a side? This will be interesting.
Only one of us will remain undefeated after this.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Fritzlein on Aug 6th, 2012, 10:08pm

on 08/06/12 at 20:14:28, browni3141 wrote:
Only one rabbit a side? This will be interesting.

Will capture threats dominate goal threats?  That would be unusual for an endgame.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Aug 6th, 2012, 11:48pm
For those who want to watch, browni and I will be playing starting at 1600 UTC Sunday. (The same time as my game against c&go but one week later.)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by odin73 on Aug 7th, 2012, 5:12am
Only one rabbit? Ok..

Before I fight against c&g, I should again study his book to be prepared for his winning strategy...  ;)

c&g: when shall we play?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by chessandgo on Aug 7th, 2012, 9:25am
I don't really have constraints; what are your preferred times?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Aug 7th, 2012, 11:19am

on 08/06/12 at 22:08:42, Fritzlein wrote:
Will capture threats dominate goal threats?  That would be unusual for an endgame.

With this rabbit to piece ratio I doubt either side can generate serious goal threats. The single rabbit is more of a vulnerability than an asset. I think I know how I will play this one, but I'll see how odin73 vs. chessandgo goes.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by odin73 on Aug 7th, 2012, 1:20pm
@c&g: I prefer this evening, Thursday, Friday or Saturday evening.

@browni: I agree, that this is a special case, hardly found in a real game. The rabbit isn´t an asset, it´s rather a burden. It motivates to think about how to play this setup. Anyway I think games never evolve as expected, one has to wait for the match to find a way to win.  

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Aug 7th, 2012, 3:21pm
Seems I had missed opportunity to play ...

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by chessandgo on Aug 13th, 2012, 7:38am
Alright, we'll finally be playing tomorrow (tuesday) 9 pm-ish (German time I think, which should be UTC+2). Sorry for the delay, my mistake.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Aug 14th, 2012, 5:19pm
Week 5 setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=r2e1hd/1rrrrh1r/////R1HRRRR/1DH1E2R

odin73 (1416) vs browni3141 (1754) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=241765)
Hippo (1500) vs chessandgo (1468) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=241402)
clyring (1612) vs supersamu (1328) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=241661)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by chessandgo on Aug 15th, 2012, 4:01am
Have we switched to central symmetry?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by odin73 on Aug 15th, 2012, 4:24am
@c&g: It was a proposal (also by me) to play also some point-symmetric match avoiding the direct confrontation of equal pieces

@clyring: Is it possible to switch the colors for my next game? So far I played always as gold. I would like to play some games as silver as well.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Aug 15th, 2012, 3:37pm
I haven't switched, but I have been randomly choosing between rotational and reflective symmetry since round 3. (It just so happened that the next three setups all featured reflective.) odin73: The colors are randomly selected for each individual game- it will even out eventually.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by aaaa on Aug 16th, 2012, 9:24pm
I'm interested in having my bot take part in this.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Aug 17th, 2012, 11:43pm
If quad can both handle the custom setups and handle the fact that gold's first real move is limited to two steps then I would love to see it play.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Aug 18th, 2012, 3:11am

on 08/17/12 at 23:43:23, clyring wrote:
If quad can both handle the custom setups and handle the fact that gold's first real move is limited to two steps then I would love to see it play.

The most challenging part would be detection the opponent is ready to start next turn ... :) but may be we can change rules such that silver has to start symmetrically. As in unrated mode the moves could be taken back ... But would taking back be bigger problem for bot?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by aaaa on Aug 18th, 2012, 7:56am
It won't be hard as long as the opponent sets up in a number of moves that has been agreed on in advance (and stays on his side of the board for the duration); then, I can just make my bot start out by following a script of moves. For convenience sake, every time a new setup is published, it could be accompanied by a move list that is mandatory for both sides if at least one of them is a bot.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Aug 18th, 2012, 12:50pm
That would be easy enough for me to do. Tell me when you have these things implemented and I will put quad on the list.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by aaaa on Aug 18th, 2012, 1:09pm
Any time will be fine, as long as I get some latitude in setting things up at the start.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Aug 21st, 2012, 4:41pm
Week 6 setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=1r2r1e/hrc1r/////HRC1R/1R2R1E


chessandgo (1532) vs browni3141 (1783) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=242489)
clyring (1636) vs odin73 (1399) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=242368)
supersamu (1292) vs bot_quad (NR) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=242159)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Aug 21st, 2012, 9:16pm
Wow, this week's games are going to be quick I think. Maybe this time I will study the starting position to try and get an edge.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by odin73 on Aug 27th, 2012, 5:45am
clyring, as you are used to release the current internal WHRE ratings after a game in the chat, you could add a table here in this forum as well. So everybody could check the latest standings?

Title: Re: 1Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Aug 27th, 2012, 7:18am
I've added a table to the first post of the thread.

Title: Re: 1Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Aug 27th, 2012, 9:16pm
What happened to the thread title?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Aug 27th, 2012, 9:18pm
Good question.

Title: Re: Hey, clrying!
Post by browni3141 on Aug 27th, 2012, 9:21pm
It seems to be fixed...

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Aug 28th, 2012, 7:45pm
Week 7 setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=3crce/5dd/////1DD/1ECRC
Suggested path to reach setup:
1g Ea1 Cb1 Rc1 Rd1 Ce1 Rf1 Rg1 Rh1 Da2 Db2 Rc2 Rd2 Me2 Rf2 Hg2 Hh2
1s ha7 hb7 rc7 md7 re7 rf7 dg7 dh7 ra8 rb8 rc8 cd8 re8 rf8 cg8 eh8
2g Rc2n Rc3x Rc1n Rc2n Rc3x Rf2n Rf3x
2s rf7s rf6x rf8s rf7s rf6x rc7s rc6x
3g Rd2n Rd3w Rc3x Hg2n Hg3w Hf3x
3s re7s re6e rf6x hb7s hb6e hc6x
4g Db2e Da2e Cb1e Ea1e
4s dg7w dh7w cg8w eh8w
5g Me2e Mf2n Mf3x Rf1n Rf2n Rf3x
5s md7w mc7s mc6x rc8s rc7s rc6x
6g Rg1w Rf1n Rf2n Rf3x Hh2w
6s rb8e rc8s rc7s rc6x ha7e
7g Hg2w Hf2n Hf3x Rh1w
7s hb7e hc7s hc6x ra8e
8g Rg1w Rf1n Rf2n Rf3x
8s rb8e rc8s rc7s rc6x




chessandgo (1514) vs clyring (1664) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=243100)
browni3141 (1820) vs supersamu (1279) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=243105)
bot_quad (NR) vs odin73 (1376) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=242843)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by aaaa on Aug 28th, 2012, 8:39pm

on 08/28/12 at 19:45:41, clyring wrote:
bot_quad vs odin73

I'm going to assume it's a complete coincidence that both I as well as my bot are going to play the same person this week.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Aug 28th, 2012, 8:42pm
I hadn't even noticed that. Yes, entirely coincidental.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on Aug 29th, 2012, 3:45am
bot_ziltoid_eee is available for practice games with the newest setup, as you can see in today's chat archive :)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by chessandgo on Aug 29th, 2012, 5:08am
will ziltoid_eee join the event? Or maybe you need to implement the 2-step 1st Gold move first, I guess?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on Aug 29th, 2012, 5:09am
Maybe next week.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by odin73 on Aug 30th, 2012, 6:55am
This will be a hard week for me....both aaaa and his bot to play.

How to play bot_quad? aaaa, shall we appoint a time when the bot is available for play?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Sep 3rd, 2012, 6:59pm
Week 8 setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=3r/r4er/////R4ER/3R
Suggested path to reach setup:
1g Ra1 Rb1 Rc1 Rd1 Re1 Ef1 Rg1 Rh1 Da2 Hb2 Cc2 Rd2 Me2 Cf2 Hg2 Dh2
1s da7 hb7 cc7 rd7 me7 cf7 hg7 dh7 ra8 rb8 rc8 rd8 re8 ef8 rg8 rh8
2g Cf2n Cf3x Me2e Mf2n Mf3x Cc2n Cc3x
2s cf7s cf6x me7e mf7s mf6x cc7s cc6x
3g Rd2w Rc2n Rc3x Hb2e Hc2n Hc3x
3s rd7w rc7s rc6x hb7e hc7s hc6x
4g Hg2w Hf2n Hf3x Dh2w Dg2w
4s hg7w hf7s hf6x dh7w dg7w
5g Df2n Df3x Rh1n Rh2w Rg2w
5s df7s df6x rh8s rh7w rg7w
6g Rf2n Rf3x Da2e Db2e Dc2n Dc3x
6s rf7s rf6x da7e db7e dc7s dc6x
7g Ra1n Rb1n Rc1n Re1n
7s ra8s rb8s rc8s re8s
8g Rg1n Rc2n Rc3x Re2e Rf2n Rf3x
8s rg8s rc7s rc6x re7e rf7s rf6x
9g Rb2n Rb3e Rc3x Ef1n
9s rb7s rb6e rc6x ef8s




bot_quad (NR) vs browni3141 (1829) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=243999)
clyring (1595) vs bot_ziltoid (NR) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=243604)
chessandgo (1576) vs odin73 (1366)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Sep 3rd, 2012, 9:02pm
Okay, time for me to find a forced win :P. Hopefully I get lucky and I am either on the winning side and can actually find the forced win, or quad's search isn't strong enough to play perfectly and I can win from the losing side anyways.

Edit: Before doing any analysis, my intuition tells me that silver should be able to demonstrate a forced win, since two steps for gold isn't enough to establish an immediate initiative in this case. I hope this is the case, since I am silver this game against a bot. I could be wrong, but I will need to do some analysis to find out.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Sep 3rd, 2012, 10:36pm
It's amazing how with so few pieces on the board, perfect play still seems to lead to a fairly balanced game. With decent tactical ability and understanding of the few strategic principles of this type of endgame the games should last at least 10-15 moves. So far in analysis I haven't been able to determine which side has the advantage. This is a little bit comforting for me, but I am still determined to find out the truth.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Sep 4th, 2012, 2:15am
I am almost sure the first move for gold is forced ...

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on Sep 4th, 2012, 3:33am
My bot cannot find a big advantage for either side, not quickly at least...

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by chessandgo on Sep 4th, 2012, 5:18am
what was jdb's table conditions again? E+3 pieces vs E + 2 pieces, max? Or 3 pieces total vs 2 pieces total max?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on Sep 4th, 2012, 5:22am

on 09/04/12 at 05:18:49, chessandgo wrote:
what was jdb's table conditions again? E+3 pieces vs E + 2 pieces, max? Or 3 pieces total vs 2 pieces total max?


It was 3 vs 3. Here's the thread:

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=talk;action=display;num=1220968839

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Fritzlein on Sep 4th, 2012, 8:30am

on 09/04/12 at 02:15:41, Hippo wrote:
I am almost sure the first move for gold is forced ...

If that it true, then I hope it is the two steps that immediately occurred to me when I saw the position.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Sep 4th, 2012, 11:08am

on 09/04/12 at 02:15:41, Hippo wrote:
I am almost sure the first move for gold is forced ...

I'm fairly certain I know which move your referring to, and I agree that it's the best move, but there seem to be other golds moves that don't give silver an obvious advantage also. I'm a little worried that it is gold that has a forced win because my mainline currently results in a gold advantage and I need to find an improvement for silver. Notice that it is silver who is in the predicament I described before, where two steps might not be enough to prove an initiative, after gold's first move.

@Fritz: Those two steps are hopefully the same two steps I immediately saw.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Sep 4th, 2012, 2:05pm
I'm not even sure that the move I previously thought as gold's best is actually gold's best. I think gold has several good first moves, or at least other moves that deserve attention. I'm fairly confident now in my ability to play this endgame. It might be against intuition, but I think strategy still dominates tactics. The tactics are too simple in my opinion to be a difficulty for humans. I did come up with an improvement for silver in my mainline. My most recent analysis again says the game is even, without a clear advantage for either side, but there are plenty of pitfalls both strategic and tactical. I'd like to play a non-official game with anybody that wants to play. I'm fairly confident that I understand the positions well enough that I can beat anybody, and perhaps anything. Of course if you also have done analysis that puts us on even ground, and I'm not so confident anymore :P

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Sep 4th, 2012, 7:20pm

on 09/04/12 at 14:05:09, browni3141 wrote:
The tactics are too simple in my opinion to be a difficulty for humans.

Apparently this is not the case, it's just that I can't see the tactics, and therefore get the impression that they are easy :P

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Sep 7th, 2012, 6:52am

on 09/04/12 at 08:30:00, Fritzlein wrote:
If that it true, then I hope it is the two steps that immediately occurred to me when I saw the position.

Seems we agree on the move and browni still fails in disproving the statement.

I am going to investigate the following position:
1g Ra1 Rd1 Ef2 Rg2
1s ra7 rd8 ef7 rg7
2g Ra1n Ra2n Ra3n
2s rc8w
3g Ra4s Ra3s
3s rb8e

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on Sep 7th, 2012, 7:59am

on 09/07/12 at 06:52:40, Hippo wrote:
Seems we agree on the move and browni still fails in disproving the statement.

I am going to investigate the following position:
1g Ra1 Rd1 Ef2 Rg2
1s ra7 rd8 ef7 rg7
2g Ra1n Ra2n Ra3n
2s rc8w
3g Ra4s Ra3s
3s rb8e


Rabbits moving towards home and non-existing rabbits moving? :O

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Sep 7th, 2012, 8:50am

on 09/07/12 at 06:52:40, Hippo wrote:
Seems we agree on the move and browni still fails in disproving the statement.

I am going to investigate the following position:
1g Ra1 Rd1 Ef2 Rg2
1s ra7 rd8 ef7 rg7
2g Ra1n Ra2n Ra3n
2s rc8w
3g Ra4s Ra3s
3s rb8e

I agree now, it wasn't obvious to me before why another move was bad, but it is now. All moves except for Ra2n Ra3n lose for gold.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Sep 7th, 2012, 10:25am

on 09/07/12 at 07:59:01, rbarreira wrote:
Rabbits moving towards home and non-existing rabbits moving? :O

:) rabbits backward is must, but c/d bug must be corrected.

Grrr, I must start by implementing go2 :(

... 2 go implemented, but this position is far from reach of my bot.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Sep 12th, 2012, 12:08pm
In near future my AEI will be able to start eee games.
I expect following interface:
As gold it looks for current last valid position in this threat and it offers to play this game, but if opponent complains, it would be ready to play position defined by opponent.
As silver it will look at the position as well and could wait for position defined by opponent, but it would allow "followmirror" and "followcentral" chat command in which case it will mimic gold till "start" chat command appears followed by at most two steps of gold.
Game could end on illegal move in this case when playing on opponent half.

Playing gold the bot would play fastest way to reach the eee position while not leaving piece further than on 2nd row after each step. There would be exception to this if it detects the opponent is not able to reach the eee position in time in which case it will wait.

Playing silver would mimic gold even on agreed position till the eee position appears.

Most of this is already codded ... it generates correct  gold setup sequence for current eee. ... So I hope in few weeks ... :)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Sep 13th, 2012, 3:05pm
Whatever happened with the chessandgo vs odin73 game?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Sep 13th, 2012, 4:32pm

on 09/13/12 at 15:05:51, clyring wrote:
Whatever happened with the chessandgo vs odin73 game?

I didn't think it happened at all.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by chessandgo on Sep 15th, 2012, 4:10am
Hmm odin PMed me saying he wouldn't be able to play the EEE game this week, and that he had already contacted you?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by odin73 on Sep 15th, 2012, 5:57am
Hello clyring,

I´m very sorry.

I thought that I sent you both c&g and you already a message that I can´t play any event game for several weeks. But it was probably only c&g and woh who received a message (woh is my team captain in the AWL)?!



Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Sep 15th, 2012, 1:23pm
I don't doubt that you sent it, but I don't think I ever received it. Normally if I receive such a message I will reply to it within a day or two, so if you don't get a reply please send another message to be sure. I've removed you from the list and will run pairings again in a few hours...

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Sep 15th, 2012, 6:37pm
Round 9 setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=r1r2e1h/rrr1m1dr/////RRR1M1DR/R1R2E1H
Suggested path to reach setup:
1g Ra1 Rb1 Dc1 Rd1 Me1 Ef1 Dg1 Hh1 Ra2 Rb2 Cc2 Rd2 He2 Cf2 Rg2 Rh2
1s ra7 rb7 cc7 rd7 he7 cf7 rg7 rh7 ra8 rb8 dc8 rd8 me8 ef8 dg8 hh8
2g Cc2n Cc3x Dc1n Dc2n Dc3x Cf2n Cf3x
2s cc7s cc6x dc8s dc7s dc6x cf7s cf6x
3g Rd2w Rc2n Rc3x He2e Hf2n Hf3x
3s rd7w rc7s rc6x he7e hf7s hf6x
4g Rg2w Rf2n Rf3x Rb1e Rc1n
4s rg7w rf7s rf6x rb8e rc8s
5g Rd1w Dg1n Me1n
5s rd8w dg8s me8s




clyring (1595) vs browni3141 (1829) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=245184)
chessandgo (1576) vs bot_quad (NR) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=245026)
supersamu (1268) vs bot_ziltoid (NR) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=245275)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Fritzlein on Sep 15th, 2012, 7:20pm
I want to play the side with two elephants, please.  ;)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Sep 15th, 2012, 7:25pm
A funny typo, but those reading the suggested path as well know better... :P (fixed)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by chessandgo on Sep 18th, 2012, 2:30pm
When will quad be available for this game, aaaa? Anything particular to do for me besides following clyring's path to the starting position?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by aaaa on Sep 18th, 2012, 3:25pm
Whenever you find yourself having time to play, you can indicate this by entering the chatroom. If this won't work out, we can explicitly schedule a time.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Sep 24th, 2012, 10:20pm
supersamu? rbarreira? When are you planning to play your game?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on Sep 25th, 2012, 2:25am
It's been a busy week, I'll PM supersamu to see if he can play the game tonight.

edit - he replied, we'll make the game happen around 20:00 CET today (18:00 GMT).

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Sep 26th, 2012, 9:23pm
Round 10 setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=1dr2rcc/hrrerrd/////HRRERRD/1DR2RCC
Suggested path to reach setup:
1g Ha1 Db1 Rc1 Ed1 Re1 Rf1 Cg1 Ch1 Ra2 Rb2 Rc2 Md2 Re2 Rf2 Hg2 Dh2
1s ra7 rb7 rc7 md7 re7 rf7 hg7 dh7 ha8 db8 rc8 ed8 re8 rf8 cg8 ch8
2g Rc2n Rc3x Rf2n Rf3x Md2w Mc2n Mc3x
2s rc7s rc6x rf7s rf6x md7w mc7s mc6x
3g Hg2w Hf2n Hf3x Rf1n
3s hg7w hf7s hf6x rf8s
4g Re1e Rb2e Ra2e
4s re8e rb7e ra7e
5g Ha1n Ed1n Dh2w
5s ha8s ed8s dh7w




bot_ziltoid (NR) vs browni3141 (1729) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=245643)
supersamu (1268) vs clyring (1659) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=245652)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Sep 26th, 2012, 11:43pm
Did chessandgo and/or quad withdraw?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Sep 27th, 2012, 7:43am
Number of stones says this is not eee position ...

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on Sep 27th, 2012, 8:24am

on 09/27/12 at 07:43:15, Hippo wrote:
Number of stones says this is not eee position ...


The OP says "discarding setups with more than 12 or fewer than 4 pieces per side."

So 12 pieces is the maximum.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Sep 28th, 2012, 11:08am
OK, I have to change the rule to 12 instead of 10 :(. But it is almost full board ...

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Oct 2nd, 2012, 6:59pm
Round 11 setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=c4her/2r2m1r/////R1M2R/REH4C
Suggested path to reach setup:
1g Ra1 Eb1 Hc1 Md1 Re1 Rf1 Rg1 Ch1 Ra2 Rb2 Cc2 Dd2 Re2 Rf2 Hg2 Dh2
1s da7 hb7 rc7 rd7 de7 cf7 rg7 rh7 ca8 rb8 rc8 rd8 me8 hf8 eg8 rh8
2g Cc2n Cc3x Rb2e Rc2n Rc3x Rf2n Rf3x
2s cf7s cf6x rg7w rf7s rf6x rc7s rc6x
3g Dd2w Dc2n Dc3x Re2e Rf2n Rf3x
3s de7e df7s df6x rd7w rc7s rc6x
4g Hg2w Hf2n Hf3x Md1n Md2w
4s hb7e hc7s hc6x me8s me7e
5g Re1n Rg1n Dh2n Re2n
5s rd8s rb8s da7s rd7s
6g Re3e Rf3x Dh3w Dg3w Df3x
6s rd6w rc6x da6e db6e dc6x
7g Rg2w Rf2n Rf3x Rf1n
7s rb7e rc7s rc6x rc8s




browni3141 (1714) vs bot_quad (NR) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=246210)
bot_ziltoid (NR) vs clyring (1580) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=246105)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Oct 7th, 2012, 11:31pm
Humanity ftw!

@clyring, don't degrade yourself by admitting inferiority to a tin can (check the OP).

Also, it's funny how you suggested that rbarreira sign up ziltoid for an easy win, and it then lost that round and two out of three since then.

I think my theory given earlier about bots in the endgame is somewhat valid.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on Oct 8th, 2012, 1:20am

on 10/07/12 at 23:31:35, browni3141 wrote:
Humanity ftw!

@clyring, don't degrade yourself by admitting inferiority to a tin can (check the OP).

Also, it's funny how you suggested that rbarreira sign up ziltoid for an easy win, and it then lost that round and two out of three since then.

I think my theory given earlier about bots in the endgame is somewhat valid.


In the bot's defense, one of the lost rounds doesn't really look like an endgame ;)

Still, you and clyring were able to pull off some impressive play, and the participating bots do have some strategic holes regarding goal attacks.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Oct 8th, 2012, 8:08am

on 10/08/12 at 01:20:10, rbarreira wrote:
In the bot's defense, one of the lost rounds doesn't really look like an endgame ;)


That's true, although goal threats played a much larger role in that game than they usually do. I even missed an earlier forced goal.


Quote:
Still, you and clyring were able to pull off some impressive play, and the participating bots do have some strategic holes regarding goal attacks.

I wonder what would happen if bots were programmed for the endgame rather than normal Arimaa, and humans studied the endgame instead of normal Arimaa. I wonder who would be on top then. Right now humans haven't done a lot of study of the endgame except for EEE, and the bots' evaluation is more based on the middlegame and opening.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Oct 8th, 2012, 8:27pm
Round 12 setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=1rm2rdr/r3derc/////R3DERC/1RM2RDR
Suggested path to reach setup:
1g 1g Ra1 Rb1 Rc1 Md1 De1 Rf1 Dg1 Rh1 Ra2 Hb2 Hc2 Rd2 Ee2 Cf2 Rg2 Ch2
1s ra7 hb7 hc7 rd7 ee7 cf7 rg7 ch7 ra8 rb8 rc8 md8 de8 rf8 dg8 rh8
2g Cf2n Cf3x Hc2n Hc3x Hb2e Hc2n Hc3x
2s cf7s cf6x hc7s hc6x hb7e hc7s hc6x
3g Ee2e De1n Rd2n Rd3w Rc3x
3s ee7e de8s rd7s rd6w rc6x
4g Rc1n Rc2n Rc3x Rb1n Ra1e
4s rc8s rc7s rc6x rb8s ra8e
5g Rb2e Rc2n Rc3x Md1w
5s rb7e rc7s rc6x md8w




browni3141 (1731) vs knak (1500) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=246883)
clyring (1580) vs harvestsnow (1500) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=246624)
bot_ziltoid (NR) vs bot_quad (NR)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on Oct 9th, 2012, 6:49am
That move sequence does not lead to the position in the image.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Oct 9th, 2012, 10:01am

on 10/09/12 at 06:49:13, rbarreira wrote:
That move sequence does not lead to the position in the image.


It was just reccomendation ... you neednot follow it ;).

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by aaaa on Oct 10th, 2012, 7:59am
Due to hardware problems I need to withdraw my bot until further notice.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Oct 15th, 2012, 3:22pm
When will browni3141 vs knak be played?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Oct 15th, 2012, 8:12pm
I've tried messaging him, inviting him, and addressing him in the chatroom, but he hasn't responded to anything yet. I remember trying to say something back when he played his AWL game, but I got no response.

Edit: For the record, the message was sent yesterday, and the invite today while he was in the gameroom (possibly afk).

Edit: He is no longer in the gameroom. I don't know how I'm supposed to play him if I can't communicate with him. I did say to him earlier in the week that I like to play my games on the weekend, and he didn't seem to have a problem with that.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Oct 15th, 2012, 10:29pm
Our game has been played.
I hope you enjoyed it knak, although I'm not sure I got that impression since you left so quickly afterwards. Were you in a hurry?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Oct 16th, 2012, 6:53pm
Round 13 setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=1rrr4/em3dd1/////1DD3ME/4RRR




harvestsnow (1418) vs browni3141 (1757) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=247836)
clyring (1628) vs knak (1452) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=247999)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by knak on Oct 16th, 2012, 7:14pm
Hi Browni,  Thanks for the game.  Yes I was in quite a bit of a hurry and I saw your message so I tried to make time last night.  Also I'm sorry I resigned instead of playing it out, but I'm fairly sure I was out of options.  

For the record, I messaged you a couple times in the chatroom as well for our game, but I admit I was gone from the computer over the weekend.  Weekends are generally bad times for me to play arimaa.

Thanks again for the game!


Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Oct 16th, 2012, 7:48pm
I'm sorry that I assumed it would be okay to wait until the weekend, knak.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Fritzlein on Oct 16th, 2012, 9:03pm

on 10/16/12 at 18:53:28, clyring wrote:
Round 13 setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=rrr4/em3dd1/////1DD3ME/4RRR

The position is not quite symmetrical.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Oct 16th, 2012, 9:35pm
I have no idea how the 1 in the original image URL ended up getting lopped off.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by knak on Oct 16th, 2012, 11:03pm

on 10/16/12 at 19:48:56, browni3141 wrote:
I'm sorry that I assumed it would be okay to wait until the weekend, knak.


No worries!  I apologize; I am notoriously bad at checking messages.   I visit the forum more frequently, however.


Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Oct 22nd, 2012, 7:52pm
It's taken me 13 rounds to realize I should try communicating with my opponents as soon as possible :(
I've always been a terrible procrastinator.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by harvestsnow on Oct 23rd, 2012, 7:36am

on 10/22/12 at 19:52:20, browni3141 wrote:
I've always been a terrible procrastinator.

You don't know whom you're dealing with!
Tell me when you're available for the game :)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Oct 23rd, 2012, 10:44am

on 10/23/12 at 07:36:42, harvestsnow wrote:
You don't know whom you're dealing with!
Tell me when you're available for the game :)

I'm avalailable today from 12-5 pm and 9-12 pm EDT

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Oct 25th, 2012, 1:48pm
Our game has been played, although I don't see it showing up as an EEE game: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=247836
It shows up as EEE now.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Oct 28th, 2012, 9:22am
My current AEI interface gameroom_tst.py with some changes of Janzert's AEI could be found here ...

http://hrosi.dyndns.org/arimaa/AEI_eee.zip

I will probabbly let gold wait for an opponent to join the game.
In that case the zip would be updated.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Oct 30th, 2012, 10:50pm
Round 14 setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=1rdrdr/rrr1e1rc/////CR1E1RRR/2RDRDR
Suggested path to setup:
1g Ca1 Rb1 Rc1 Dd1 Re1 Df1 Rg1 Rh1 Ha2 Rb2 Mc2 Ed2 Re2 Cf2 Hg2 Rh2
1s ra7 hb7 cc7 rd7 ee7 mf7 rg7 hh7 ra8 rb8 dc8 rd8 de8 rf8 rg8 ch8
2g Mc2n Mc3x Ha2n Ha3e Hb3e Hc3x
2s mf7s mf6x hh7s hh6w hg6w hf6x
3g Rb2e Rc2n Rc3x Rb1n Ca1n
3s rg7w rf7s rf6x rg8s ch8s
4g Cf2n Cf3x Hg2n Hg3w Hf3x
4s cc7s cc6x hb7s hb6e hc6x
5g Re2e Rg1n Rh1w
5s rd7w rb8s ra8e




browni3141 (1779) vs clyring (1652) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=248790)
bot_Hippo_eee (NR) vs knak (1397) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=248554)
harvestsnow (1407) vs bot_ziltoid (NR) F-1

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by knak on Nov 1st, 2012, 8:28pm
Hippo,

I can play the game this weekend sometime.  (Unusual for me, since usually I can't play at the weekend...)


Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Nov 2nd, 2012, 5:58am

on 11/01/12 at 20:28:28, knak wrote:
Hippo,

I can play the game this weekend sometime.  (Unusual for me, since usually I can't play at the weekend...)

Oh sorry, I will not be near the comp till after 28 hours ... I expected you have already played and this is why I have switched the time controll back ...
I would try to arrange the time controll back but not now ... the remote desktop problems ...

I have not expect you would play learning game on turnament time controll before the official one ...

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Nov 2nd, 2012, 7:35am
I think perhaps the first game with correct setup, colors, time control between the two players should always count- otherwise I can imagine some abusive behavior possible against an always-available bot.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Fritzlein on Nov 2nd, 2012, 8:39am
Indeed, the simpler the position (i.e. the more endgame-like) the more advantage a human could gain from practice games.  I doubt bot developers would want to allow such games, so clyring's rule makes perfect sense to me.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by knak on Nov 2nd, 2012, 9:45am
Hippo,

I posted that message before the second game was played;  I hadn't yet realized that you had switched the time controls.  I am happy to count that as the official game.  I may play another game against the bot for fun though.

Thanks!


Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Nov 3rd, 2012, 9:44am

on 11/02/12 at 09:45:01, knak wrote:
Hippo,

I posted that message before the second game was played;  I hadn't yet realized that you had switched the time controls.  I am happy to count that as the official game.  I may play another game against the bot for fun though.

Thanks!

I am happy that everything is OK, especially as there happened something with the computer while I was away. I expect to restart it soon.

Oh, it is ready again without my help. I must check what happened anyways.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Nov 5th, 2012, 3:48pm
When will harvestsnow vs bot_ziltoid be played?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on Nov 5th, 2012, 4:24pm

on 11/05/12 at 15:48:58, clyring wrote:
When will harvestsnow vs bot_ziltoid be played?


I contacted harvestsnow two days ago but haven't received a reply yet.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Nov 9th, 2012, 9:38pm
Round 15 setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=c1errd/r2r2rm/////MR2R2R/2DRRE1C
Suggested path to setup:
1g Ma1 Rb1 Dc1 Rd1 Re1 Rf1 Eg1 Ch1 Ra2 Hb2 Cc2 Rd2 Re2 Df2 Hg2 Rh2
1s ra7 hb7 dc7 rd7 re7 cf7 hg7 rh7 ca8 eb8 rc8 rd8 re8 df8 rg8 mh8
2g Cc2n Cc3x Hb2e Hc2n Hc3x Df2n Df3x
2s cf7s cf6x hg7w hf7s hf6x dc7s dc6x
3g Rd2w Rc2n Rc3x Hg2w Hf2n Hf3x
3s hb7e hc7s hc6x re7e rf7s rf6x
4g Ra2e Rb2e Ma1n Rb1n
4s rh7w rg7w rg8s mh8s
5g Rc2n Rc3x Rf1n Rf2n Rf3x Eg1w
5s rf7s rf6x rc8s rc7s rc6x eb8e




browni3141 (1816) vs bot_ziltoid (NR) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=250476)
bot_Hippo_eee (NR) vs clyring (1637) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=249846)
supersamu (1439) vs knak (1396) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=249741)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Nov 9th, 2012, 9:56pm
Apologies for the delays- this has been a rather busy week for me.  I will not be running pairings again until the 20th. I have removed harvestsnow from the list for future pairings and counted his last week's match as a win for bot_ziltoid at 0200 UTC Tuesday for rating purposes.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Nov 9th, 2012, 11:22pm
I wonder what happened with harvestnow. I've seen him in the forums, so why didn't he say anything?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by harvestsnow on Nov 13th, 2012, 1:09am

on 11/09/12 at 23:22:34, browni3141 wrote:
I wonder what happened with harvestnow. I've seen him in the forums, so why didn't he say anything?

I guess I wasn't keen on having a new set of blunders registered.
I've made my peace with it though, count me in for the future pairings.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Nov 20th, 2012, 7:09am
When will browni3141 vs bot_ziltoid be played?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on Nov 25th, 2012, 5:44pm

on 11/20/12 at 07:09:13, clyring wrote:
When will browni3141 vs bot_ziltoid be played?


Finally it was played today, sorry for the delay:

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=250476

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Nov 26th, 2012, 12:03am
Congrats to ziltoid! I can't win them all, and I don't really like to :)
This game and others has made me feel I've been getting rusty already, and I haven't even been inactive very long. Hopefully I can come back stronger after my break.

Edit: @clyring: In the chatroom you indicated that you had not received any communication from me. If you didn't get my message then I will state here that I'd like to be removed from EEE until further notice. I didn't really want to play the game this week and the delay was largely my fault. I just want a short break from Arimaa.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Nov 26th, 2012, 10:59pm
Round 16 setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=cr2rr1m/rrr1rr1e/////RRR1RR1E/CR2RR1M
Suggested path to setup:
1g Ca1 Rb1 Hc1 Rd1 Re1 Rf1 Rg1 Mh1 Ra2 Rb2 Dc2 Dd2 Re2 Cf2 Hg2 Eh2
1s ra7 rb7 dc7 dd7 re7 cf7 hg7 eh7 ca8 rb8 hc8 rd8 re8 rf8 rg8 mh8
2g Dc2n Dc3x Cf2n Cf3x Dd2n Dd3w Dc3x
2s dc7s dc6x cf7s cf6x dd7s dd6w dc6x
3g Hc1n Hc2n Hc3x Hg2w Hf2n Hf3x
3s hc8s hc7s hc6x hg7w hf7s hf6x
4g Rd1w Rc1n Rf1n Rg1w
4s rd8w rc8s rf8s rg8w




clyring (1637) vs harvestsnow (1398) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=250715)
bot_ziltoid (NR) vs knak (1323) 1-F

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Dec 4th, 2012, 10:24pm
When will bot_ziltoid vs knak be played?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on Dec 7th, 2012, 2:19pm

on 12/04/12 at 22:24:46, clyring wrote:
When will bot_ziltoid vs knak be played?


I sent a PM to knak or Wednesday and I'm waiting for a reply.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Dec 12th, 2012, 9:50pm
I have removed knak from the list and by aaaa's request have made forfeits no longer count toward the ratings.




Round 17 setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=2rr1rrd/2rerrr/////1RRRER/DRR1RR
Suggested path to setup:
1g Da1 Rb1 Rc1 Rd1 Re1 Hf1 Dg1 Rh1 Ra2 Rb2 Cc2 Md2 Ee2 Cf2 Hg2 Rh2
1s ra7 hb7 cc7 ed7 me7 cf7 rg7 rh7 ra8 db8 hc8 rd8 re8 rf8 rg8 dh8
2g Cc2n Cc3x Cf2n Cf3x Hg2n Hg3w Hf3x
2s cf7s cf6x cc7s cc6x hb7s hb6e hc6x
3g Md2n Md3w Mc3x Hf1n Hf2n Hf3x
3s me7s me6e mf6x hc8s hc7s hc6x
4g Rb2e Ra2e Rd1n Dg1n
4s rg7w rh7w re8s db8s
5g Dg2n Dg3w Df3x Rh1w
5s db7s db6e dc6x ra8e
6g Rh2w Rg2w Rg1w
6s ra7e rb7e rb8e




clyring (1654) vs UMDRevan (1500) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=252171)
bot_Hippo_eee (NR) vs harvestsnow (1368) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=252377)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Dec 18th, 2012, 4:13pm
Whatever happened with bot_hippo vs harvestsnow?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Dec 19th, 2012, 8:48am
Sorry for unknown reason the comp was switched off. Remote desktop didn't help :(.

Hippo

It is ready now.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by harvestsnow on Dec 20th, 2012, 10:26pm
Thanks, Hippo.
Here it it: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/games/jsShowGame.cgi?gid=252377&s=w

I liked my position until 17g.
Perhaps
16s. rh3s rh2e dh4s rg5e
would have been better? Or ...rg5s, to prevent the h2 rabbit from being flipped back.
The rabbit move on 19s was another blunder that cut one move from my opponent's path to the goal.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Dec 25th, 2012, 7:55am
Round 18 setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=2ch1r/rr1rerr/////RR1RERR/2CH1R
Suggested path to setup:
1g Ca1 Rb1 Rc1 Hd1 Re1 Rf1 Rg1 Mh1 Ra2 Rb2 Dc2 Rd2 Ee2 Cf2 Hg2 Dh2
1s ra7 rb7 dc7 rd7 ee7 cf7 hg7 dh7 ca8 rb8 rc8 hd8 re8 rf8 rg8 mh8
2g Dc2n Dc3x Cf2n Cf3x Rc1n Rc2n Rc3x
2s dc7s dc6x cf7s cf6x rc8s rc7s rc6x
3g Dh2n Dh3w Dg3w Df3x Mh1n
3s dh7s dh6w dg6w df6x mh8s
4g Hg2w Hf2n Hf3x Rb1e Rc1n
4s hg7w hf7s hf6x rb8e rc8s
5g Mh2w Mg2w Mf2n Mf3x
5s mh7w mg7w mf7s mf6x
6g Rf1n Rg1n Re1e
6s rf8s rg8s re8e
7g Rc2n Rc3x Ca1e Cb1e
7s rc7s rc6x ca8e cb8e




bot_ziltoid (NR) vs clyring (1687) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=253499)
harvestsnow (1368) vs UMDRevan (1432) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=253181)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jan 7th, 2013, 12:09pm
2013 round 1 (19) setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=2m2r/d1rr1r1e/////D1RR1R1E/2M2R
Suggested path to setup:
1g Ra1 Rb1 Mc1 Rd1 Re1 Rf1 Rg1 Dh1 Da2 Hb2 Cc2 Rd2 Re2 Cf2 Hg2 Eh2
1s ra8 rb8 mc8 rd8 re8 rf8 rg8 dh8 da7 hb7 cc7 rd7 re7 cf7 hg7 eh7
2g Cc2n Cc3x Hb2e Hc2n Hc3x Rb1n
2s cc7s cc6x hb7e hc7s hc6x rb8s
3g Rb2e Rc2n Rc3x Ra1e Rb1n
3s rb7e rc7s rc6x ra8e rb8s
4g Rb2e Rc2n Rc3x Rd2w Rd1n
4s rb7e rc7s rc6x rd7w rd8s
5g Cf2n Cf3x Hg2w Hf2n Hf3x Rg1n
5s cf7s cf6x hg7w hf7s hf6x rg8s
6g Rg2w Rf2n Rf3x Dh1w Dg1n
6s rg7w rf7s rf6x dh8w dg8s
7g Dg2w Df2n Df3x Re2n
7s dg7w df7s df6x re7s
8g Re3e Rf3x Re1n Re2e
8s re6e rf6x re8s re7e




bot_Hippo_eee (NR) vs clyring (1687) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=258273)
harvestsnow (1450) vs bot_ziltoid (NR) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=258946)
UMDRevan (1330) vs Brendan_M (1500) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=262081)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by odin73 on Jan 18th, 2013, 12:56pm
may I rejoin for next round?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jan 18th, 2013, 3:05pm
Yes, but will you be rejoining for the next round?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by odin73 on Jan 18th, 2013, 5:38pm
if I can I will... ;) ...yes.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Jan 30th, 2013, 4:23am
What happened with the event? My bot avaits an opponent.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Fritzlein on Jan 30th, 2013, 7:33am

on 01/30/13 at 04:23:55, Hippo wrote:
What happened with the event?

Let me guess... um.... maybe... clyring started commentating fifteen games per week?  ;)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jan 30th, 2013, 1:35pm
I think Fritzlein might be on to something there... ;)

I have no idea why the other games for 2013 round 1 are unplayed so far, though. If those were played, that would definitely increase my motivation to donate even more of my time to Arimaa by playing against bot_Hippo_eee. :P

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by harvestsnow on Jan 31st, 2013, 3:45am
rbarreira hasn't answered my answer to his PM yet. It should be coming...

By the way, is there a way to be more agressively notified of new incoming messages? I could easily miss the modification of the number if I don't delete them.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by novacat on Jan 31st, 2013, 6:54am

on 01/31/13 at 03:45:31, harvestsnow wrote:
By the way, is there a way to be more agressively notified of new incoming messages? I could easily miss the modification of the number if I don't delete them.

You can send players emails through Arimaa rather than PMs (you can also exchange email addresses, but some people like their privacy).  
Just bring up a player's profile (by clicking on their name) and click "Message."  You can search for players under the "Players" menu in the gameroom.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jan 31st, 2013, 3:08pm
There is a setting that allows the forum to notify you by e-mail when you receive a message if that would help. From your IM inbox, click on "Preferences" on the right above the list of messages, then select "Yes" for "Notify by e-mail:", then save your preferences.

The forum should already know where to send notifications, but just to be sure, I recommend checking. Click on the profile button at the top center of any forum page and verify that the e-mail field is correctly filled in. If not, fix it, then click on "Change profile" at the bottom.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by harvestsnow on Feb 3rd, 2013, 12:33pm
Thank you, that works!
The thread notification could also be useful in that case.
Sorry for the off-topic.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Feb 21st, 2013, 9:26pm
Now that the World Championship has reached the finals, I would like to see the lengthy intermission caused by my putting so much effort into the World Championship come to an end.  The games for 2013 round 1 still need to be played, after which I will resume running pairings on a regular basis.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on Mar 13th, 2013, 1:15pm

Quote:
-Computer programs participating in, but not yet eliminated from an ongoing Arimaa World Computer Championship may not participate.
-Computer programs participating in the Arimaa Challenge Screening may not participate during the screening period.
-The Arimaa Challenge program may not participate during the Arimaa Challenge match.


Here are my thoughts about these new rules, as I've written in the chatroom (tldr: I think those rules are unnecessary)


Quote:
2013-03-10 14:46:47 rbarreira hi
2013-03-10 14:47:45 rbarreira yes, I think Janzert is correct
2013-03-10 14:48:10 rbarreira it's not a problem for the screening bots to play the defenders in the postal mixer, in open gameroom games etc.
2013-03-10 14:48:50 rbarreira much less in the EEE which is more like a variant of the game
2013-03-10 14:50:00 rbarreira in fact it would be infeasible to forbid this, because I could claim that I have changed the software behind bot_ziltoid a lot, and then it would be a different game
2013-03-10 14:50:21 rbarreira *name
2013-03-10 14:51:02 rbarreira so IMO you don't need to change the EEE rules
2013-03-10 14:53:52 rbarreira oh, actually this has been discussed before with regards to the postal mixer: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=events;action=display;num=1328532554;start=0
2013-03-10 14:54:03 rbarreira and here is what Omar said: "I think it should be OK for a challenge defender to play the challenge bot in a postal. The timecontrols being very different should cause the bot to play differently from even the same position. But as you mentioned the bot could use some of the vacation time to avoid playing the challenge defenders if the bot developer is concerned. "

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by browni3141 on Mar 13th, 2013, 2:20pm
I don't see why this is necessary at all. Bot developers are allowed to put up their bot for play during the screening and Challenge, aren't they? Why shouldn't they be able to voluntarily participate in EEE due to the Challenge when I may play bot_ziltoid (even at challenge time controls) during the Challenge or screening?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by novacat on Mar 14th, 2013, 6:58am

on 03/13/13 at 14:20:38, browni3141 wrote:
Why shouldn't they be able to voluntarily participate in EEE due to the Challenge when I may play bot_ziltoid (even at challenge time controls) during the Challenge or screening?

I assume you are using "I" as meaning most people because as a Challenge defender you are not allowed to play bot_ziltoid during the screening.

Edit: by play during the screening I mean participate in it.  It is not my opinion on whether you should or should not be able to play bot_ziltoid in the EEE.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Janzert on Mar 14th, 2013, 8:50am
Novacat, that is really the debate here. I believe along with Browni and others that defenders, developers, etc. are only restricted from participating in screening games. Not from playing the bot at all. Unfortunately the rules are written rather ambiguously.

Janzert

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by UMDRevan on Apr 1st, 2013, 3:52pm

on 02/21/13 at 21:26:18, clyring wrote:
Now that the World Championship has reached the finals, I would like to see the lengthy intermission caused by my putting so much effort into the World Championship come to an end.  The games for 2013 round 1 still need to be played, after which I will resume running pairings on a regular basis.


Hey clyring, BrendanM and I will play our game, but if I can be removed from the event after that game, that would be best.  Real life is hitting me rather hard right now and leaving me with very irregular recreation time right now (or none at all), and my attempt at participation will continue to be disruptive to scheduled events for the near future.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Apr 1st, 2013, 7:11pm
Ok, I have removed you from the list.

Also, a special note on your last game:
Spending more than two steps on the first gold move is an automatic forfeit. Please, all participants be very careful to abide by this rule.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Apr 1st, 2013, 10:31pm
2013 round 2 (20) setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=rr1c3d/2dme1r/////2DME1R/RR1C3D
Suggested path to setup:
1g Ra1 Rb1 Rc1 Cd1 Re1 Rf1 Rg1 Dh1 Da2 Hb2 Cc2 Md2 Ee2 Rf2 Hg2 Rh2
1s da7 hb7 cc7 md7 ee7 rf7 hg7 rh7 ra8 rb8 rc8 cd8 re8 rf8 rg8 dh8
2g Cc2n Cc3x Hb2e Hc2n Hc3x Rc1n
2s cc7s cc6x hb7e hc7s hc6x rc8s
3g Rc2n Rc3x Da2e Db2e Rf2n Rf3x
3s rc7s rc6x da7e db7e rf7s rf6x
4g Hg2w Hf2n Hf3x Rf1n Rf2n Rf3x
4s hg7w hf7s hf6x rf8s rf7s rf6x
5g Rh2w Rg2w Rf2n Rf3x Rg1n
5s rh7w rg7w rf7s rf6x rg8s
6g Re1e Rf1n Rf2n Rf3x
6s re8e rf8s rf7s rf6x




Brendan_M (1554) vs clyring (1669) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=262795)
Harren (1500) vs bot_Hippo_eee (NR) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=262553)
Nombril (1500) vs supersamu (1513) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=262787)
harvestsnow (1438) vs odin73 (1432) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=262208)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Apr 2nd, 2013, 12:36pm
OK, I am starting the bot again :). Still the original interface:(.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Nombril on Apr 2nd, 2013, 1:38pm
Just to check, since I'm new to the EEE.  Is it OK to play bot_Hippo_EEE or other players with the current position as practice before our match game?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Apr 2nd, 2013, 3:08pm
You are free to do whatever you please as far as preparing yourself to play the given starting position as well as you can before the game is concerned.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Apr 5th, 2013, 2:48pm

on 04/02/13 at 13:38:07, Nombril wrote:
Just to check, since I'm new to the EEE.  Is it OK to play bot_Hippo_EEE or other players with the current position as practice before our match game?


As you are not my bot's opponent, it is OK. Otherwise I hope the first game played against it would be considered to be the turnament one.

I still hope to find time to finish the new interface to allow the bot to play fast at standard but to allow restart at asked time controll ... . So far I have to let it here play at turnament speed till the turnament game is played.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by aaaa on Apr 5th, 2013, 5:51pm
I never had my bot play in the EEE with the new hardware and am curious to find out how it would manage now. Consider this its reentry in the event.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Apr 5th, 2013, 6:25pm

on 04/05/13 at 17:51:37, aaaa wrote:
I never had my bot play in the EEE with the new hardware and am curious to find out how it would manage now. Consider this its reentry in the event.

I have added it to the list.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on May 20th, 2013, 7:00pm
2013 round 3 (21) setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=1mh1ecrr/rd2rrd/////RD2RRD/1MH1ECRR
Suggested path to setup:
1g Ra1 Mb1 Hc1 Rd1 Ee1 Cf1 Rg1 Rh1 Da2 Rb2 Cc2 Rd2 Re2 Hf2 Rg2 Dh2
1s da7 rb7 cc7 rd7 re7 hf7 rg7 dh7 ra8 mb8 hc8 rd8 ee8 cf8 rg8 rh8
2g Cc2n Cc3x Rd2w Rc2n Rc3x Hf2n Hf3x
2s cc7s cc6x rd7w rc7s rc6x hf7s hf6x
3g Rb2e Da2e Ra1n
3s rb7e da7e ra8s
4g Rc2n Rc3x Rg2w Dh2w
4s rc7s rc6x rg7w dh7w
5g Rd1n Rd2w Rc2n Rc3x
5s rd8s rd7w rc7s rc6x




Nombril (1627) vs Brendan_M (1669) F-1
bot_quad (1633) vs bot_ziltoid (1577) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=270443)
clyring (1605) vs supersamu (1385) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=266809)
odin73 (1493) vs Harren (1500)
harvestsnow (1337) vs crazyharry (1500) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=267453)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by chessandgo on Jul 13th, 2013, 11:07am
Hi there. I'd like to rejoin the event on the next round if that's possible.

Have fun!
Jean

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on Jul 14th, 2013, 5:29am
aaaa, I'm free the next few days to have our bots play the long overdue EEE game!

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jul 16th, 2013, 12:07pm

on 07/13/13 at 11:07:19, chessandgo wrote:
Hi there. I'd like to rejoin the event on the next round if that's possible.

Have fun!
Jean

I've put you on the list for whenever the current round ends. (Though given this round's exceptional slowness, I don't know how long that will be. ???)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by aaaa on Jul 16th, 2013, 12:29pm
I'll indicate any opportunity on my part to have the game be played by being present in the chatroom.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by rbarreira on Jul 16th, 2013, 12:59pm

on 07/16/13 at 12:29:53, aaaa wrote:
I'll indicate any opportunity on my part to have the game be played by being present in the chatroom.


Good idea, I'll do the same thing.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Aug 3rd, 2013, 8:49pm
I grow weary of this waiting. Are the remaining games of this round ever going to be played?

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Aug 4th, 2013, 5:21am

on 08/03/13 at 20:49:33, clyring wrote:
I grow weary of this waiting. Are the remaining games of this round ever going to be played?


Yes, it seems to me, the time for each round should be limited. Players have option not to register for the round ...

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Aug 10th, 2013, 8:58pm
2013 round 4 (22) setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=1e2r2r/r2rh1r/////1R1HR2R/R2R2E
Suggested path to setup:
1g Ra1 Rb1 Rc1 Rd1 Re1 Rf1 Eg1 Rh1 Da2 Hb2 Cc2 Hd2 Me2 Cf2 Rg2 Dh2
1s da7 rb7 cc7 md7 he7 cf7 hg7 dh7 ra8 eb8 rc8 rd8 re8 rf8 rg8 rh8
2g Cc2n Cc3x Hb2n Hb3e Hc3x Cf2n Cf3x
2s cf7s cf6x hg7s hg6w hf6x cc7s cc6x
3g Rc1n Rc2n Rc3x Rf1n Rf2n Rf3x
3s rf8s rf7s rf6x rc8s rc7s rc6x
4g Da2e Db2e Dc2n Dc3x Rb1n
4s dh7w dg7w df7s df6x rg8s
5g Me2e Mf2n Mf3x Re1n
5s md7w mc7s mc6x rd8s
6g Rg2w Rf2n Rf3x Dh2w
6s rb7e rc7s rc6x da7e
7g Dg2w Df2n Df3x Rh1n
7s db7e dc7s dc6x ra8s




Brendan_M (1654) vs bot_quad (NR) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=273617)
bot_ziltoid (NR) vs bot_Hippo_eee (NR) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=273976)
supersamu (1513) vs chessandgo (1583) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=273487)
harvestsnow (1423) vs clyring (1554) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=273463)
crazyharry (1376) vs half_integer (1500) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=273640)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Aug 22nd, 2013, 2:28am

on 08/10/13 at 20:58:13, clyring wrote:
2013 round 4 (22) setup and pairings:

Brendan_M (1696) vs bot_quad (1697)
bot_ziltoid (1528) vs bot_Hippo_eee (1542)
supersamu (1500) vs chessandgo (1565)
harvestsnow (1366) vs clyring (1633)
crazyharry (1331) vs half_integer (1500)


bot_ziltoid (1528) vs bot_Hippo_eee (1542)
game planned to 2013.08.22 CEST 21:00.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Aug 26th, 2013, 7:21pm
2013 round 5 (23) setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=1r1r1m1r/rrre1rhr/////RRRE1RHR/1R1R1M1R
Suggested path to setup:
1g Ra1 Rb1 Rc1 Rd1 Re1 Mf1 Hg1 Rh1 Da2 Rb2 Cc2 Ed2 De2 Cf2 Hg2 Rh2
1s da7 rb7 cc7 ed7 de7 cf7 hg7 rh7 ra8 rb8 rc8 rd8 re8 mf8 hg8 rh8
2g Cf2n Cf3x Hg2n Hg3w Hf3x Cc2n Cc3x
2s cf7s cf6x hg7s hg6w hf6x cc7s cc6x
3g De2e Df2n Df3x Hg1n Da2n
3s da7s de7e df7s df6x hg8s
4g Ra1n Da3e Db3e Dc3x
4s ra8s da6e db6e dc6x
5g Rc1n Re1n Re2e
5s rc8s re8s re7e




bot_quad (NR) vs clyring (1497)
harvestsnow (1522) vs chessandgo (1660) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=275593)
bot_Hippo_eee (NR) vs crazyharry (1461) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=275379)
supersamu (1471) vs half_integer (1372) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=274760)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by chessandgo on Sep 1st, 2013, 5:21am
I can't seem to reach harvestnow via PM. I'm moving flats this week-end and should get my connection back only on the 5th, so I'll be available to play only on the 6th and later. Please let me know when you wanna play harvestnow!

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Sep 11th, 2013, 6:05pm
I don't expect to have my bot ready during next 14 days so I will skip the event during this period.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Sep 11th, 2013, 11:32pm
Oh? It looks like your bot has already played its game (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=275379) for this round, though. (Or do you mean I should temporarily remove your bot from the list for future pairings?)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Hippo on Sep 12th, 2013, 8:59am
Yes, it played with crazyharry, but as I expect next round to be early, I am afraid the new version of my bot would not be ready in time ... so remove it from future pairings till I say opposite.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by deep_blue on Jan 18th, 2015, 7:51pm
I would like to join the EEE. (and I write post this in the thread because I hope that those who read it will join as well  ;) )

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Feb 16th, 2015, 9:16am
See the wiki page for a brief overview of the new format. Pairing for the next round will be at approximately 2359 UTC every fourth Wednesday beginning this week.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by odin73 on Feb 16th, 2015, 1:47pm

on 02/16/15 at 09:16:31, clyring wrote:
See the wiki page for a brief overview of the new format. Pairing for the next round will be at approximately 2359 UTC every fourth Wednesday beginning this week.

It took me some clicks, to find it. For everybody, the link to clyring´s eee wiki page:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/EEE

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Feb 18th, 2015, 7:04pm
2015 round 1 (24) setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=ecrrdr2/hrr1cr1r/////R1RC1RRH/2RDRRCE




kzb52 (1500) vs clyring (1497) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=327481)
clyring (1409) vs supersamu (1472) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=332102)
SilverMitt (1620) vs supersamu (1459) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=331578)
SilverMitt (1500) vs Heyckie (1592) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=327893)
deep_blue (1500) vs Heyckie (1500) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=327219)
deep_blue (1384) vs supersamu (1405) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=331971)
chessandgo (1705) vs supersamu (1517) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=325950)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Mar 16th, 2015, 8:09am
Registration for the next round is open now, btw.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Mar 18th, 2015, 7:35pm
2015 round 2 (25) setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=er1r/4h2h/////H2H/4R1RE




SilverMitt (1666) vs supersamu (1404) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=334292)
Heyckie (1494) vs SilverMitt (1700) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=334487)
Heyckie (1430) vs clyring (1557) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=334685)
clyring (1516) vs supersamu (1375) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=334662)
supersamu (1336) vs deep_blue (1379) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=334708)
deep_blue (1260) vs Heyckie (1515) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=334704)
SilverMitt (1737) vs kzb52 (1618) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=334572)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by harvestsnow on Mar 18th, 2015, 8:18pm

on 02/16/15 at 09:16:31, clyring wrote:
every fourth Wednesday

You meant third, right?

Now I think of it, that probably meant "every four weeks", regardless of the current month.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Apr 8th, 2015, 7:14pm

on 03/16/15 at 08:09:16, clyring wrote:
Registration for the next round is open now, btw.

I say the same again, but with nearly the full week's warning rather than two and a half days.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by PerkofBR on Apr 11th, 2015, 10:35am
I would like to play in the next round, if its still possible.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by CraggyCornmeal on Apr 12th, 2015, 12:48am
I'd like to play in the next round, too.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Apr 12th, 2015, 3:21pm
It will remain possible until pairing is done Wednesday evening, but as outlined on the event's wiki page (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/EEE), you need to tell me the number of games you want to play before I can register you.
Please give that page a good reading over so you know exactly what you're getting yourself into. :)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by PerkofBR on Apr 13th, 2015, 10:46pm
Only one game for me in this first round, clyring.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Apr 15th, 2015, 8:00pm
2015 round 3 (26) setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=rr3r1r/remrhrr/////1RRHRMER/R1R3RR




SilverMitt (1584) vs supersamu (1388) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=337623)
supersamu (1362) vs deep_blue (1301) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=337288)
deep_blue (1249) vs SilverMitt (1606) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=337939)
SilverMitt (1611) vs Heyckie (1397)
Heyckie (1397) vs PerkofBR (1500)

novacat (1500) vs SilverMitt (1650) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=335433)
supersamu (1365) vs clyring (1461) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=338084)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on May 12th, 2015, 10:23am
Registration for the next round is again open.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on May 13th, 2015, 8:24pm
2015 round 4 (27) setup and pairings:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=r2err1m/r3hrr/////1RRH3R/M1RRE2R




clyring (1665) vs CraggyCornmeal (1419) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=344712)
SilverMitt (1611) vs CraggyCornmeal (1500) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=340933)
SilverMitt (1675) vs clyring (1612) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=344353)
clyring (1586) vs supersamu (1446) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=343651)
supersamu (1382) vs novacat (1588) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=342863)
SilverMitt (1644) vs novacat (1671) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=341333)
supersamu (1440) vs CraggyCornmeal (1378) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=345300)
PerkofBR (1500) vs clyring (1512) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=342588)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Tuks on May 17th, 2015, 5:21am
register me for 3 games please, this round or next

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jun 3rd, 2015, 11:26am
Registration for the next round is now open if you wish to repeat that request.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by PerkofBR on Jun 3rd, 2015, 12:44pm
One game for me clyring.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by Tuks on Jun 5th, 2015, 6:24am
yes, put me in  :)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jun 8th, 2015, 4:13pm
(Done, 1 and 3 games.)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by deep_blue on Jun 9th, 2015, 6:13am
Don't know if it's too late but if not put me in for 2 or 3 games. (depending what makes the number of game requests even)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jun 9th, 2015, 5:36pm

on 06/09/15 at 06:13:11, deep_blue wrote:
Don't know if it's too late but if not put me in for 2 or 3 games. (depending what makes the number of game requests even)

Allowing this kind of registration becomes headache-inducing if there are several. I've tentatively put you down for two games regardless of how the parity eventually works out, but feel free to make my life easy and only give me one number. :)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jun 10th, 2015, 10:00pm
2015 round 5 (28) setup:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=1drr1d1e/ch1r2hr/////CH1R2HR/1DRR1D1E




I've elected to delay the pairings themselves somewhat due to not having decided how to handle an incomplete pairing under the current protocol. Feel free to look up more details in the chatroom archive and provide comments. The round itself will not be shortened but will simply start on a later date.



SilverMitt (1640) vs clyring (1680) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=357224)
clyring (1712) vs Tuks (1346)
Tuks (1389) vs SilverMitt (1626) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=355788)
SilverMitt (1629) vs supersamu (1448) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=352564)
supersamu (1399) vs clyring (1676) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=351883)
CraggyCornmeal (1491) vs clyring (1652) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=356628)
novacat (1482) vs CraggyCornmeal (1457) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=357049)
novacat (1413) vs deep_blue (1290) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=357506)
deep_blue (1284) vs SilverMitt (1581) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=352860)
PerkofBR (1420) vs SilverMitt (1591) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=354299)
Tuks (1500) vs supersamu (1497) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=354790)



This round will end 2015 July 15 2359 UTC.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by novacat on Jun 12th, 2015, 10:18am
I think pairing the players again, but with reversed colors, is a good logical solution going forward.  However, I place a high value on games being enjoyable to the players.  So if you would not enjoy playing the same opponent twice in this round, I would let deep_blue play the game.  I suppose the proper thing to do is redo the pairings, but I am fine if deep_blue simply replaces you as a matter of expediency to get the pairings out sooner  :)

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jun 12th, 2015, 11:16pm
The pairings don't take terribly long manually when I have some peace and quiet, which (when combined with the infrequent need to pair in the new format) is why I haven't done more to automate (and in so doing fully specify) the process just yet. The source of my concern was rather that knowing the content of the pairing I wanted to throw out could influence my decision on whether or not to do so.

I finally decided that the combination of the history of throwing out pairings leading to forced 'too soon' rematches in the old format, my feeling that repeat pairings should be avoided where reasonable as shown by the current procedure avoiding them where possible, and the lack of objection were enough for me to evaluate this as the best option independent of the particular partial pairing being discarded.

Title: Re: Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jul 13th, 2015, 1:32am
It seems I forgot to actually post here that registration for the next round is open.

Title: Re:  Endless Endgame Event?
Post by clyring on Jul 15th, 2015, 10:11pm
2015 round 6 (29) setup:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/notconv/old/boardimg.php?orient=n&size=300&imgtype=png&ranks=rm1e2ch/5r/////5R/RM1E2CH
Suggested path to setup:
1g Ra1 Mb1 Rc1 Ed1 Re1 Rf1 Cg1 Hh1 Da2 Hb2 Cc2 Rd2 Re2 Rf2 Rg2 Dh2
1s da7 hb7 cc7 rd7 re7 rf7 rg7 dh7 ra8 mb8 rc8 ed8 re8 rf8 cg8 hh8
2g Cc2n Cc3x Rc1n Rc2n Rc3x Hb2n
2s cc7s cc6x rc8s rc7s rc6x hb7s
3g Hb3e Hc3x Da2e Db2e Dc2n Dc3x
3s hb6e hc6x da7e db7e dc7s dc6x
4g Rd2w Rc2n Rc3x Rf2n Rf3x Rf1n
4s rd7w rc7s rc6x rf7s rf6x rf8s
5g Rf2n Rf3x Dh2n Dh3w Dg3w Df3x
5s rf7s rf6x dh7s dh6w dg6w df6x
6g Re2e Rf2n Rf3x Rg2n
6s re7e rf7s rf6x rg7s
7g Rg3w Rf3x Re1n Re2e
7s rg6w rf6x re8s re7e



supersamu (1543) vs SilverMitt (1618) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=366639)
CraggyCornmeal (1505) vs supersamu (1520) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=366973)
SilverMitt (1656) vs CraggyCornmeal (1463) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=606431)
SilverMitt (1647) vs deep_blue (1339) 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=371304)
deep_blue (1364) vs supersamu (1547) 0-1 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=367861)
SilverMitt vs clyring



bot_Meijin vs SilverMitt 1-0 (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=359561)
clyring vs bot_Meijin



This round is supposed to end 2015 August 12 at 2359 UTC. We'll see when it really ends.



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