Arimaa Forum (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi)
Arimaa >> Events >> 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
(Message started by: kzb52 on Dec 15th, 2016, 5:36pm)

Title: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by kzb52 on Dec 15th, 2016, 5:36pm
Hello Everyone!

I'm happy to be here hosting the 2017 WC! As always the tournament cannot succeed without the help of the Arimaa community. I look forward to an exciting event.

I personally like the format which we've used in the past couple years. I have no major intended changes planned. If clyring (or anyone) has improved the pairing program we can switch to that if desired.

Tentatively I would like to host a warmup round in slightly over a month (the weekend of January 19th/20th/21st), and begin the tournament proper the week after that. Registration for both will open as soon as possible, and 1 week from the time of this post at the latest.

As usual the entry fee will be 1000 Arimaa Points (approx. 10 USD). I will again be funding the entry fees for some players. The scope of the program is to be determined.

Any comments on the rules, regulations, and so forth belong in this thread.

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by kzb52 on Dec 19th, 2016, 7:05pm
Please see the link to the rules:

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2017_World_Championship_Rules

I would like to finalize them as soon as possible so that registration can be opened.  Without any replies to this post I will move ahead with the tournament on December 22nd, sometime in the evening (US EST).

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by risteall on Dec 19th, 2016, 8:14pm
Thanks for doing this; I look forward the tournament. I had a potential change in mind since the last one:

One problem with the 2016 format seemed to be the way forfeits by stronger players to weaker players distorted the performance rating and subsequent pairings. I wonder whether this could be mitigated by ignoring forfeits for purposes of tpr and bracketing, but counting them for elimination and bye assignment. For instance, after Brendan's 2016 forfeit to deep_blue, both players would have had unchanged tpr, and Brendan would have continued to play in the 0-loss bracket, but had only two lives remaining and been ineligible for a bye. The point of ignoring forfeits for bracketing is to hopefully remove any incentive to forfeit a game that would likely be lost: a forfeiter has to play in a higher bracket against presumably stronger opponents.

I don't know if there's time to properly work out the effect this would have. A downside is that the format becomes more complex: there are more possible results for each game (currently non-double forfeits are treated exactly the same as normal results).

More trivially, the current rules say "Players with 3 or more losses in the first 6 rounds are ranked in reverse order of losses, with ties broken by STPR." This means that byes count as wins, which is dubious because in the Swiss section byes go to players with many losses. Of course the ranking of non-finalists doesn't much matter.

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by kzb52 on Dec 20th, 2016, 7:27pm
I will have to think a bit more about this proposal.  My two main rules priorities are

1.  The issue you brought up
2.  Handling of timeouts

I am open to other suggestions but most other things in the rules I see as non-controversial.  For example, I support the 50% refund to players who complete all 6 rounds.

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by mattj256 on Dec 21st, 2016, 3:18pm
kzb52 thanks for stepping up as TD!

In the "Technical Problems" section, it says: "The one-minute load average was 4.00 or more in the log".  The directory that it links to doesn't have any recent load averages.  (Most recent is last year.)
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2017_World_Championship_Rules#Technical_Problems

Also the link to Pingdom ping times isn't publicly accessible without logging in.

I don't care how this section is written as long as there are reasonable and objective criteria for when "technical problems" have occurred.

You only gave us three days to comment.  Can this deadline be extended to say, December 26? (One week)  Not everyone reads the forum every day.

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by kzb52 on Dec 22nd, 2016, 5:10pm
I will hold off on opening registration for the moment.  It's just that the WC seems to get pushed back a little more every year and I wanted to make sure we had a large enough registration window :-/

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by clyring on Dec 25th, 2016, 6:22pm
Some quick thoughts:

-The forfeit handling proposed by risteall is perhaps the least unreasonable other than the current scheme I've yet heard. I'll have to think about it more. Is this disincentive of playing a bracket higher strong enough to avoid forfeit losses being 'too often' better than regular losses? Is taking a punitive approach to forfeit losses a good thing? Do we care about the slightly increased potential for collusion and pairing influence?
Some care also needs to be taken about the edge cases of this. What about players who enter the Swiss section after a forfeit loss? Should a forfeit that eliminates a player, for critical TPR, be treated as a normal loss, since the eliminated player can play no more games? Should a forfeit be plugged back into critical TPR in general when the forfeiting player is eliminated? What about in the final rankings for prize distribution? I have some serious doubts still, but maybe this idea will turn out to be an improvement when correctly implemented.

-The phrase 'reverse order of losses' dates to 2014. Also note that the 2016 pairing scheme largely attempts to assign byes in the Swiss section largely on an as-is-convenient basis rather than preferring lower brackets. Generally I like treating byes as (weak) wins, and don't see much reason for having the reverse policy in the Swiss section.

-As mentioned in chat and also pointed out by mattj256, the timeout handling procedure for last year ended up being technically sketchy at best, and does sorely want improvement for this year. Also like mattj256, I think we merely need something reasonable, working, and verifiable. (Though the login detail situation for the Pingdom setup never bothered me too much, now that it's been mentioned.)

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by mattj256 on Dec 26th, 2016, 6:47pm
What is needed for the rules to be finalized and registration to begin?
It was never my intention to significantly delay the schedule.

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by mattj256 on Jan 11th, 2017, 6:07pm
Bump?  I'm sure we're all eager for the rules to be finalized and registration to be opened.  As I said before, it was never my intention to significantly delay the schedule.

kzb52, have you reached a decision regarding the issues raised by clyring and risteall?

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by clyring on Jan 11th, 2017, 9:30pm
I also noticed a few days ago the lack of new information as well and poked him by a direct message. The gameroom suggests last seen 20 days ago, and I have no evidence of more recent activity. I begin to get a bit concerned...

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by mattj256 on Jan 15th, 2017, 6:58pm
Thanks clyring.  Can we wait X amount of time, then contact the authorities and/or start looking for a new TD?  Please let us know if kzb52 responds to you privately and doesn't comment publicly (so we know he's alive and ok).

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by omar on Jan 18th, 2017, 8:53am
I've tried to contact kzb52 yesterday, but have not heard back yet. He had mentioned that he would be very busy Jan 10 to 16. Maybe he is still tied up with that. Lets wait another day or two and hope he returns. Otherwise I'm not sure what to do. Open to suggestions.

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by mattj256 on Jan 21st, 2017, 9:47pm
I hope kzb52 is able to be TD and is just tied up at the moment.  Are there any volunteers to be TD if kzb52 isn't able to do it?  Don't all answer at once.

What is involved in being TD?  I've never even done TC before, and I hope someone else volunteers!

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by omar on Jan 22nd, 2017, 8:46am
No response yet from kzb52. I think it would be safe to assume at this point that he may not be able to orgainze the event this year. If anyone else is interested in organizing the WC this year, please send me a message from here: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/message.cgi?u=1

mattj256, it's not too hard. I had wrote up a doc once to describe the roles: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/Event_Roles

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by mattj256 on Jan 30th, 2017, 6:04pm
Ugh, I really don't have time.
I hope someone steps up.

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by omar on Feb 4th, 2017, 1:11pm
Well, no one has stepped up yet to organize the event this year. From the signups for the warm up event, it seems there is interest in playing a tournament, but no one can make the commitment to organize it. Unfortunately we might not have a WC this year. As a last resort I would be willing to organize the event this year, but it would have to be just a single elimination tournament. I know some people like to play in the tournament to get several high quality tournament games, and this format for the WC won't be able to provide that, except for the really strong players. But perhaps if we keep things going at a bare minimum this year, maybe in future years, someone will be able to organize a longer tournament.

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by Hippo on Feb 7th, 2017, 6:04am
Oops, it's a pitty there will be no WC this year. I would have no time personally to schedule (and play) or even organize, but it's always fun to watch and comment.

What about postal mixer this year?

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by omar on Feb 11th, 2017, 5:27pm
Well, I can run a simple single elimination tournament. I've set it up now.
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/wc/2017/

It's not ideal, but it's what I can do to keep things going.

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by browni3141 on Feb 12th, 2017, 9:03pm
Thanks omar.

Title: Re: 2017 WC Rules, Format, and Schedule
Post by mattj256 on Feb 22nd, 2017, 12:26am
Thanks Omar.  I just registered myself (which is effectively a donation to the prize fund).

I see the wiki page hasn't been edited: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/mwiki/index.php/2017_World_Championship_Rules

What method will be used to determine seeding, pairing, and byes?

Do we still need Tournament Coordinators?  (If yes I volunteer to be a Tournament Coordinator.)  

Does this still apply?
"All players who complete the tournament without forfeiting a game, including by graceful withdrawal, will be refunded half of the entry fee (500 Arimaa points)."



Arimaa Forum » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.3.1!
YaBB 2000-2003. All Rights Reserved.