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Topic: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games (Read 522456 times) |
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christianF
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #930 on: Jul 1st, 2012, 7:12am » |
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on Jun 25th, 2012, 8:34am, christianF wrote:Now with any luck the 2-player version of the Mu applet will be operational this coming weekend  . |
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Ah well, the optimist claims this is the best possible world, and the pessimist fears that's right.
Structurally there are no bumps in the road, and the finish-line is in full view. But with multiple moves per turn, and the possibility of multiple explosions following a move, and the necessity to be able to step forwards & backwards through either or both, with the gradual transition of Virginity to the Commonwealth and the Wall, and considering the complex interaction of the pieces and the terrain ... there's an impressive administration to keep track of. Streamlining it takes some more time - a couple of days according to Ed.
Expect my next post to be about the first game.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 1st, 2012, 9:00am by christianF » |
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christianF
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #931 on: Jul 5th, 2012, 1:25pm » |
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Time for an update, here's a more or less representative game between Ed and me. Not really though, because Ed is stuck between a daily job and working on the applet. I'm using his password to test it for bugs, occasionally successfully. It's a nice way to see the game actually behave in the same way that it did virtually for a quarter of a century.
Red resigned because he lacks the 'menpower' to invade the large purple area. He's got 37 cells, Purple got 38. Strategically the game is rather 'quick and dirty' because of the bug search.
The known bugs are all applet related, but there's one issue that is more fundamental: the current detection and handling of oscillation. Oscillation is a chain reaction that doesn't come to rest. In the rules it says:
Quote:For any section of the Wall the following is true: if a piece the height of the total capacity of the section is placed on one cell of the section, the thing starts exploding out till it comes to rest with each cell exactly at capacity.
Add one man and the whole section starts to oscillate without end.
The same is true for any section of the Commonwealth, with regard to its 'critical mass', which is lower than the Wall's because cells of the Commonwealth become critical at one man below capacity. |
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As it happens, it isn't quite true. It just sounds true, like the words of a politician. Here's the idea:
A 3-cell section of the Commonwealth. Each cell accepts at most 1 man, so the maximum number of men that can be placed without explosions is 3. And indeed, if one 3-column is placed on any one cell, there's one explosion, shooting two men to the neighboring cells, and leaving one man overcapacity behind: that's stable, so far so good.
But ...
Here, with the same number of men, the position keeps oscillating. And it gets better:
A compact diamond can hold 6 men and be stable: one at each acute corner, two at each obtuse one. However the section can oscillate with 5 men!
Of course I was getting curious whether it could be stretched any further, and indeed:
On the left the maximum stable load of a triagle of six cells: 12 men. On the right a position that oscillates, using only 10 men.
It is clear that detection of oscillation is far from easy, and that the way it is handled in the rules doesn't cover cases where a section oscillates with less than the maximum load.
Not to worry though, it wasn't the most elegant way to handle it in the first place and we've found a better way. I'll modify it shortly.
P.S.
Joomla uses a fixed width, so the applet overshoots on the right. That's on the to do list: the buttons will be moved below the board instead of beside it.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 6th, 2012, 2:56pm by christianF » |
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christianF
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #932 on: Jul 6th, 2012, 9:55am » |
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Here's a better way to handle oscillation:
Quote:Sections of the Commonwealth or the Wall may contain arrangements of columns that are in a cyclic chain reaction. This is called 'oscillation'.
- If a section shows oscillation the player is obliged to remove a man from one of its exploding cells. If this doesn't stop oscillation, the player must remove another man from one of its exploding cells, and so on till the chain reaction comes to rest. Removing a man from an exploding cell is done by 'shift-clicking' the piece.
Terminating oscillation counts as a move for any segment that had one or more of its columns trimmed down.
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It's effective, and not as arbitrary as the previous way to handle it, and more importantly: it leaves the detection and handling of it to the player. That wouldn't seem too difficult, because as long as a cell is 'explosive', the player cannot proceed with a move.
Where a 'click' effectuates a pending explosion, 'shift-click' now reduces the column's number of men by one.
Implicitly, the shift-click works on any column awaiting explosion. However, barring terminating oscillation, trimming down a column is never advantageous in Mu.
Here's another piece of homework using Ed's password. Not surprisingly this game features oscillation  .
P.S.
Quote:| ... trimming down a column is never advantageous in Mu. |
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Actually that's not quite true either (  ), but there's the added disadvantage of losing one or more move options, not to mention that trimmimg a piece is only allowed to terminate oscillation. It's a rule for which the applet doesn't check though.
In the meantime debugging has come to a provisional end, so Ed and I now have a real game running.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 7th, 2012, 9:06am by christianF » |
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christianF
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #933 on: Jul 8th, 2012, 2:58am » |
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It's remarkable how many people follow this thread, even more so that they all seem to believe me on my pretty blue eyes  .
You can actually play Mu (turnbased) and check if it's anything like the thing I envisioned.
But it's 'the horse and the water' revisited, be it that in my view Mu is such an enigmatic abstract, that I trust the water to eventually tempt the horse.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 8th, 2012, 3:28am by christianF » |
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christianF
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #934 on: Jul 9th, 2012, 2:42pm » |
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I've heard the fear expressed that Mu, with multiple moves per turn, and at times multiple explosions per move, might be unmanageable.
I'm not going to argue to the contrary, but riding a bike for the first time often doesn't seem all that manageable either, and yet we all learned it to the point that it feels the most natural thing in the world.
To help those who stop short of actually trying, to judge for themselves, I'll comment on strategy in this game against Ed (I've removed the dutch bug-related comments, since Ed fixed them). That's a bit awkward of course, because Ed will take notice. Let's hope it enhances the fun .
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| « Last Edit: Jul 9th, 2012, 2:44pm by christianF » |
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christianF
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #935 on: Jul 11th, 2012, 4:08am » |
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Regarding 'manageable', I 'd like to point out that the strategic evaluation I gave at move 11, materialized in a fury of chain reactions that resulted in a division of the territory at move 16 in which I'm 6 cells down, but two men up and in control of the entire Wall.
after move 16
So now it's an elimination game in which Purple must conquer the whole board or lose on points. It's uncharted territory - I think Ed might be able to hold it. On the other hand, 2 against 1 is a win, so if Purple can manage an even exchange record, he will win.
All very manageable, and fairly balanced for a game that in its opening stages - clearing Virginity - has all the hallmarks of a progressive game (in the middle game its still multiple moves per turn, but not progressively so).
The manageability doubts have some basis in that Mu can only be played using an applet. Over the board play would hardly be manageable indeed. That's why we will introduce a light version next to the main one, that can be played using the applet as well as over the board.
- In Mu light (soon optional in the applet) players are entitled to one move per turn, instead of one move per segment per turn.
This hardly affects strategy, but it tames tactics to a degree that makes it manageable over the board because chain reactions will result of this one move only and thus be limited in range.
You need:
- segments
- white draughtsmen for Virginity
- black draughtsmen for the Wall
- colored chips for pieces
The difference between the games is not unlike the difference between Chess and Progressive Chess, where Chess is considered the 'light' version. Not that Chess is a light game, but neither is 'Mu light'. It's slower of course, with less furious tactics, but strategically just as challenging. Mu shows the hallmarks of a strategy game as they are characterized on mindsports:
Quote:| "Strategy games have strategies varied enough to allow different styles of play, tactics varied enough to induce their own terminology, and a structure that allows advantageous sub-goals to be achieved as calculable signposts along the way." |
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| « Last Edit: Jul 11th, 2012, 6:36am by christianF » |
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christianF
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #936 on: Jul 11th, 2012, 2:11pm » |
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After move 18
Well, this one's in the pocket pretty fast after all, and guess what:- Mu light is now an option when starting a game.
Thanks Ed!
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christianF
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #937 on: Jul 12th, 2012, 10:03am » |
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Luis suggesteded to make 'light' the main variant. I can see why. Light is strategy with appropriately wild tactics, as opposed to the inappropriately wild tactics of the 'main variant'. Light is more balanced in that the range of changes a player can accomplish is much smaller, giving the opponent time to react earlier, but likewise limited. So the pace is slower, which may suit those who consider the game too fast to be 'manageable'.
But they'd miss the joy of bombing out of the blue, like the double jump of the purple 5-column that resulted in flattening the exit of Red's peninsula":
That was planned. In the position below, Red cannot capture all three purple men, so one remains. That is crucial, because it will mark the segment as 'occupied by purple', implying that a move may be made from it.
But not by the remaining purple piece of course, but by the 5-column in the starting blocks here:
Next move it will jump over the wall where it lands on a segment still occupied by Purple, from which no move has been made yet, and bingo. Mu is fun  .
Mu velox and Mu levis
Fast and Light in appropriaty Latin. I wouldn't make one variant the 'main' variant, so I've sub-named them differently. Since barring the different move protocol the rules are the same, it made the adaptation easy.
We've moved the choice between the two variants from the applet to the prefs, making it two seperate games with seperate ratings.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 12th, 2012, 3:09pm by christianF » |
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christianF
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:) .
« Reply #938 on: Jul 13th, 2012, 5:58am » |
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on Mar 8th, 2009, 6:30pm, Fritzlein wrote:| I'm surprised he doesn't call himself Cassandra, gifted with prophecy but cursed that no one will believe him. But he does put his faith in generations. He believes that time will tell. |
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Indeed I do .
I have more than a quarter of a century of experience at 'being Cassandra' regarding Mu. Mu is an enigma and I'm sure it will attract some lasting interest by the abstract games community, but why did it remain dormant for so long? In 1986 at Fanaat, Martin's dominant personality pushed Atlantis while a couple of post modern hippies discovered the realm of role playing. When I left, hardly anyone noticed.
Mu re-emerged iat mindsports in 2009 but was never actually noticed. Calling it my 'magnum opus' obviously wasn't much of a recommendation, presumably because no-one could see the game. Not the way I can 'see' a game, riding a bike in the middle of the night. Admittedly the rules seemed rather deterrent. It's easier to determine the rules from the vision I had of the game, than vice versa.
To stay in that context: I've heard remarkably little of Fritzlein about Symple and Sygo (albeit far to much by a detractor whose insights, if that be the word, I care less about). Last year I posted some thoughts about predictability of game behaviour in reply to his objections, and indeed acknowledging some of them. In particular I'd like his thoughts regarding my argument that simple organic games - and I dare to include Mu here, despite its apparent complexity - have fairly predictable behaviour, because if they are balanced, they have nowhere to go but deeper. Symple and Sygo are implicitly balanced. Mu is not, but then, Chess isn't either, and Chess is far more serious than Mu.
Any insights?
P.S. In terms of turn order balance two-player Mu answers the requirements of a pie after the first player's first piece move.
But that would mean taking the game far too seriously  .
P.P.S. First Mu levis game
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| « Last Edit: Jul 15th, 2012, 7:27am by christianF » |
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christianF
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #939 on: Jul 15th, 2012, 3:09pm » |
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CodeCup Challenge 2013: Symple
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christianF
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Re: :) .
« Reply #940 on: Jul 17th, 2012, 12:00pm » |
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on Jul 13th, 2012, 5:58am, christianF wrote:| In terms of turn order balance two-player Mu answers the requirements of a pie after the first player's first piece move. |
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Actually that's quite a stupid remark  . I'm not all that used to not having my stupidity pointed out ...
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Boo
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #941 on: Jul 18th, 2012, 3:14am » |
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Quote:| The two player version of the Mu applet is under construction. |
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You might consider implementing that in a website like www.yucata.de - which is free and accepts new games if someone cares to develop them. It has metaranking system which encourages players to try new games, so you should get some feedback also.
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christianF
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #942 on: Jul 18th, 2012, 4:01am » |
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on Jul 18th, 2012, 3:14am, Boo wrote:| You might consider implementing that in a website like www.yucata.de - which is free and accepts new games if someone cares to develop them. It has metaranking system which encourages players to try new games, so you should get some feedback also. |
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Yes indeed, thanks . I don't know how we could have missed that site, it is very much in the spirit in which we like to present games. We'll certainly include it in our links, give it some extra exposure, and contact them. *
Mu is still more or less in its testphase, appletwise. There's a bit more to it than usual in the abstract games category. Yucata itself is obviously able to harbors games of an impressive complexity, so I expext some fruitful cooperation to be possible.
We're considering a Mu_levis tounament in the near future with a Grand Chess set for the winner and a Hexdame set for the runner up. It'll likely be a straight knock-out system, 5 segments per player or thereabouts, and each player having Red once and Purple once, with the total territory count over both games deciding the winner in case of a draw. That might be equal too - let's hope that doesn't happen .
In so much as learning to play Mu is like learning to ride a bike, we're learning.
* Done.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 18th, 2012, 3:38pm by christianF » |
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Boo
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #943 on: Jul 19th, 2012, 5:20am » |
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Oh, I didn't know you have a similar site also.
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christianF
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Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #944 on: Jul 19th, 2012, 5:41am » |
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on Jul 19th, 2012, 5:20am, Boo wrote:| Oh, I didn't know you have a similar site also. |
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Yes, not all that user friendly as Yucatan (we're working on that) but very much in the same spirit. I'm very glad you pointed it out .
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