Author |
Topic: Houdini - new chess engine on the rise (Read 3126 times) |
|
The_Jeh
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #634
Gender: 
Posts: 460
|
 |
Re: Houdini - new chess engine on the rise
« Reply #1 on: Feb 11th, 2011, 9:20am » |
 Quote  Modify
|
I downloaded it and tried it out. It is clearly the stronger engine on my hardware. I did notice that it seemed to have a knack for turning even positions into wins.
|
| « Last Edit: Feb 11th, 2011, 9:23am by The_Jeh » |
 IP Logged |
|
|
|
omar
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2
Gender:
Posts: 1003
|
|
Re: Houdini - new chess engine on the rise
« Reply #2 on: Feb 11th, 2011, 11:53am » |
Quote Modify
|
Did you have it play against Rybka 4?
I had it play against a version of Rybka 2 that came with Arena and it was certainly much better. Also I noticed the number of positions Hudini was examining was about 10x more than Rybka and it was getting deeper into the tree.
I'm guessing that Hudini's evaluation function is much simpler and it is relying more on searching deeper than on a complex eval function. For a while more complex evaluation functions were prevailing. Maybe Hudini will cause the trend to shift back to simpler eval functions.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
The_Jeh
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #634
Gender:
Posts: 460
|
|
Re: Houdini - new chess engine on the rise
« Reply #3 on: Feb 11th, 2011, 1:16pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Feb 11th, 2011, 11:53am, omar wrote:Did you have it play against Rybka 4?
I had it play against a version of Rybka 2 that came with Arena and it was certainly much better. Also I noticed the number of positions Hudini was examining was about 10x more than Rybka and it was getting deeper into the tree.
I'm guessing that Hudini's evaluation function is much simpler and it is relying more on searching deeper than on a complex eval function. For a while more complex evaluation functions were prevailing. Maybe Hudini will cause the trend to shift back to simpler eval functions.
|
|
Yes, Rybka 4.
I don't know whether Houdini's eval is simpler. Actually, I think it might be fairly sophisticated, as it seems to evaluate some positions much more accurately than one would expect from a computer. The number of nodes that Rybka indicates it examines is much lower than most other engines. For example, Fruit indicates a much greater number of searched positions than Rybka. At the same time, I agree that Houdini is very fast. At lightning speeds it simply dominates. I did notice that (at certain time controls) its selective search went quite deep - sometimes into the 50-60 ply range. Perhaps it is pruning extremely aggressively.
|
| « Last Edit: Feb 11th, 2011, 1:21pm by The_Jeh » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Janzert
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #247
Gender:
Posts: 1016
|
|
Re: Houdini - new chess engine on the rise
« Reply #4 on: Feb 11th, 2011, 4:46pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Remember Rybka rather infamously lies about its node count.
From a recent thread on openchess
Quote:| As I've pointed out elsewhere, the "modern" Rybka node-counting method simply counts White make-moves and divides by 7, so it is low by a factor of ~14, or maybe 15-16 if you include null moves in your accounting. |
|
I also seem to recall but can't find a reference off hand that at least older versions also under reported the search depth.
Janzert
|
| « Last Edit: Feb 11th, 2011, 4:59pm by Janzert » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
qswanger
Forum Guru
Gender:
Posts: 89
|
|
Re: Houdini - new chess engine on the rise
« Reply #5 on: Feb 11th, 2011, 5:20pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Man, the first game of this match where Houdini plays the black side of a Sicilian, goes down/sacrifices three pawns with the queens off the board and no mating attack and ends up winning was just super sweet. Now he *did* have crazy active pieces in the subsequent open position (2B+N vs B+2N) and no pesky pawns were hemming in his rooks and it was amazing to see this agent turn these positional factors into the eventual win of a piece and then grind out a win in the endgame pawn push. Riveting!
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
|
|
Re: Houdini - new chess engine on the rise
« Reply #6 on: Feb 11th, 2011, 7:27pm » |
Quote Modify
|
That was a great game. Computers are not supposed to be able to make positional pawn sacrifices like that.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
chessandgo
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #1889
Gender:
Posts: 1244
|
|
Re: Houdini - new chess engine on the rise
« Reply #7 on: Feb 12th, 2011, 4:19am » |
Quote Modify
|
I can't believe how alien chess games have become to me. It's like someone is talking to me in Chinese. I can see the pieces move, but that's about it 
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
rbarreira
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #1621
Gender:
Posts: 605
|
|
Re: Houdini - new chess engine on the rise
« Reply #8 on: Feb 12th, 2011, 7:51am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Feb 12th, 2011, 4:19am, chessandgo wrote:| I can't believe how alien chess games have become to me. It's like someone is talking to me in Chinese. I can see the pieces move, but that's about it |
|
Yeah... most of those moves look pointless to me.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
omar
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2
Gender:
Posts: 1003
|
|
Re: Houdini - new chess engine on the rise
« Reply #9 on: Feb 13th, 2011, 9:04am » |
Quote Modify
|
When the moves are made by looking at the consequences 10 plys or more later, the spectators need to be able to also look that deep to really appreciate the significance of the move. I think this is what make chess difficult for average people to follow without the help of a grandmaster explaining the reasoning behind the move. But now even the grandmasters are needing to use computers to understand the moves. Problem is the computer is not good at explaining it I guess from a high level one can still appreciate games that swing back and forth and have some drama even if one can't appreciate the details of each move.
|
| « Last Edit: Feb 13th, 2011, 9:06am by omar » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
|
|
Re: Houdini - new chess engine on the rise
« Reply #10 on: Feb 13th, 2011, 1:29pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Feb 13th, 2011, 9:04am, omar wrote:| Problem is the computer is not good at explaining it I guess from a high level one can still appreciate games that swing back and forth and have some drama even if one can't appreciate the details of each move. |
|
Yes, I can appreciate some drama and unexpected moves, but part of the problem is that it is hard for me to even know if there has been a swing. Was black winning the whole way, or was there a dramatic blunder by white? If so, when? My level of enjoyment of chess as a spectator is limited by my poor chess ability. Grandmaster commentary would definitely help, but then I would still be limited by how well I understand what the grandmaster is saying. Ultimately the best fans of a game are the best players.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
The_Jeh
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #634
Gender:
Posts: 460
|
|
Re: Houdini - new chess engine on the rise
« Reply #11 on: Apr 19th, 2011, 9:36am » |
Quote Modify
|
Houdini and Rybka have again made it to the Elite Match in TCEC Season 2. Houdini is the same version, 1.5a, but Rybka has been upgraded to version 4.1, which fixed a bug that affected time management. So far, the match is tied with about a fourth of the match left to play.
|
| « Last Edit: Apr 19th, 2011, 9:37am by The_Jeh » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
|
|
Re: Houdini - new chess engine on the rise
« Reply #13 on: Apr 20th, 2011, 11:27pm » |
Quote Modify
|
John, thanks for tipping me off about the rematch. I watched a few of the games live (while doing other things, of course, since the time control is slow and there is no GM commentary). Houdini now has a three point lead with three games to go, so Houdini is repeat champion barring a miracle run by Rybka.
Watching the games is spooky, in that they alternate between moves that have some obvious purpose even I can understand and moves that are so obscure I would call them blunders if I didn't know I was watching some of the best chess that has ever been played by anyone!
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
|
Home
Help
Search
Members
Login
Register
Reply
Notify of replies
Send Topic
Print