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Topic: Game viewer / analysis tool (Read 63132 times) |
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Hippo
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Re: Game viewer / analysis tool
« Reply #120 on: Oct 31st, 2010, 5:26pm » |
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on Oct 31st, 2010, 10:28am, Fritzlein wrote:| By the way, during the workshop, did anyone manage to import the movelist I pasted to the Arimaa Wiki? Did anyone try to import and fail? |
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I have used the wiki file without problems ... expect I hoped fore some more comments after 13  . But the Adanacs camel moves forced by you made big impression to me .
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Fritzlein
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Re: Game viewer / analysis tool
« Reply #121 on: Nov 1st, 2010, 2:03am » |
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on Oct 31st, 2010, 5:26pm, Hippo wrote:| I have used the wiki file without problems ... expect I hoped fore some more comments after 13 . But the Adanacs camel moves forced by you made big impression to me . |
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Excellent, I am glad that you were able to import without difficulty the file that I exported. It seems that the problems I had with importing might be specific to me, and therefore a difficult bug to track down.
I'm sorry I didn't get as far into the game during my workshop as I had hoped, but time was constrained, and it is good that we didn't delay the later events too long. Besides, the further the game progresses, the less it is about the nature of unbalanced forces and the more it is about the nature of goal races.
I think I gave the wrong impression that Adanac was dancing to my tune in the opening. Yes, perhaps my elephant-horse attack forced his camel move, but one could just as well say that his previous camel moves forced me into making an elephant-horse attack that put my horse in jeopardy. Until move twelve, his manipulation of me was working out quite well. If he hadn't voluntarily moved his camel to the west instead of forcing it through to the east, I would have been under great pressure strategically.
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| « Last Edit: Nov 1st, 2010, 2:04am by Fritzlein » |
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Hippo
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Re: Game viewer / analysis tool
« Reply #122 on: Nov 1st, 2010, 3:33am » |
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on Nov 1st, 2010, 2:03am, Fritzlein wrote:
Excellent, I am glad that you were able to import without difficulty the file that I exported. It seems that the problems I had with importing might be specific to me, and therefore a difficult bug to track down.
I'm sorry I didn't get as far into the game during my workshop as I had hoped, but time was constrained, and it is good that we didn't delay the later events too long. Besides, the further the game progresses, the less it is about the nature of unbalanced forces and the more it is about the nature of goal races.
I think I gave the wrong impression that Adanac was dancing to my tune in the opening. Yes, perhaps my elephant-horse attack forced his camel move, but one could just as well say that his previous camel moves forced me into making an elephant-horse attack that put my horse in jeopardy. Until move twelve, his manipulation of me was working out quite well. If he hadn't voluntarily moved his camel to the west instead of forcing it through to the east, I would have been under great pressure strategically. |
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Yes, I hope I have got it (already yesteday), that the dance was mutually forced. And I agree after turn 13 the dance was over. ... I wrote the comments just not to made a post so short and to demonstrate I have loaded the game well . It was smart to stop it to allow other events ... BTW: It's a pitty you had HW problems during the simul.
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jdb
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Re: Game viewer / analysis tool
« Reply #123 on: Apr 9th, 2011, 8:06am » |
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Would it be possible to have the setup string accept a partial list of pieces?
The following cannot be imported into the viewer:
1g Ra1
1s ra4
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clojure
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Re: Game viewer / analysis tool
« Reply #124 on: Apr 10th, 2011, 2:06am » |
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Without looking at the code, I think the change should be small. I will take a look at it, but not sure when I have time. I have to make sure I won't break anything.
In another news, I have not developed this client any further because of founding a company last year. It seems there's not good chances me having time to further advance the client in any major way.
Although, I have gotten some practice with Google AppEngine, so I might try to quickly create a shared board, but maybe not as full-fledged I want.
Thanks for the request
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| « Last Edit: Apr 10th, 2011, 2:06am by clojure » |
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clojure
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Re: Game viewer / analysis tool
« Reply #125 on: Apr 12th, 2011, 4:44am » |
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I cannot promise to take even a look at it in this week, I'm quite exhausted and busy with a project. Sorry.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 12th, 2011, 4:44am by clojure » |
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clojure
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Re: Game viewer / analysis tool
« Reply #126 on: Sep 3rd, 2011, 7:51am » |
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Hi, it's been long time. Not good news; I do nothing but code and still I feel I lack the time to implement my ideas that I have on software in general. Unfortunately it means this client won't be worked on for a while.
Also, Google AppEngine changed its pricing model, which might mean that hopes of using it for the backend just dropped. On the other hand, Heroku recently announced Java support and it seems full Scala support is to come soon. It's possibly the best alternative given my background.
It would be nice to hear whether anyone has been using the tool? Has it been any help as it is now? Of course, the best parts would be coming... hopefully I or someone else will eventually.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Game viewer / analysis tool
« Reply #127 on: Sep 3rd, 2011, 10:42am » |
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Hi, clojure. It is good to hear from you! I am happy to hear your good news; it is blessing to have so many interesting projects that there is not time enough to work on all of them.
For many moons your tool was not being used by anyone as far as I know, but since the start of the Mob vs. Gang game in July, we have used it every week. I can't speak to what the Gang is doing, but for the Mob it is a part of the discussion to gather all the proposed moves in an analysis tree with suggested variations and refutations. For this purpose your software is extremely useful exactly as it is. On the Mob's most recent move, for example, it helped me make up my mind that our front-running move was strong and a wacky alternative was weak, in a way that I couldn't see so clearly when I was just reading text and moving the pieces in my head.
Certainly I could give you feature requests and bug fixes. My top feature request at the moment is a way (in addition to merely re-ordering variations) to promote a variation up into the main line while demoting the main line to variation status. Also there is the bug where a move can be added at the end of one variation but it displays at the end of every variation. And the tree doesn't allow variations at the setup stage, although that isn't relevant to our current usage since we are past the setup. Also the big feature of having a shared board for live discussion isn't currently relevant.
All of these issues pale in comparison to the usefulness of having the tool at all. It is a huge help to be able to transmit information visually as well as merely textually. Thanks for your fabulous donation to the Arimaa community.
If you are curious to see the tool in use, you could sign up for the Mob vs. Gang game, probably with the Gang since it is USA vs. ROW, unless the Gang is not even using the tool, in which case you could be an honorary Mob member to gain access to the relevant discussion. http://arimaa.com/arimaa/forum/cgi/YaBB.cgi?board=events;action=display; num=1307542193
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| « Last Edit: Sep 3rd, 2011, 10:45am by Fritzlein » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: Game viewer / analysis tool
« Reply #128 on: Sep 3rd, 2011, 10:50am » |
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on Apr 9th, 2011, 8:06am, jdb wrote:| Would it be possible to have the setup string accept a partial list of pieces? |
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By the way, in case the relevance of this request wasn't clear, this is important for sharing puzzles. Omar has a puzzle creation tool, which is a nice way to share puzzles that is built in to the Arimaa server, but his tool only allows you share a winning line. For more complicated puzzles, there is always a question of how one would win against a different defense, and/or whether another line would also win or could be refuted. You tool already has the requisite variation capability, just not the puzzle setup capability. For a while jdb was peppering us with a series of great endgame puzzles, which inspired his request, but at the moment this feature is not pressing.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 3rd, 2011, 10:51am by Fritzlein » |
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clojure
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Re: Game viewer / analysis tool
« Reply #129 on: Sep 3rd, 2011, 11:30am » |
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Hey Fritzlein,
it feels good that it has been in real use. Also now that you have been using it, the issues you mentioned have more weight in them. It's good to have them documented in here. I'll see what I can do when I have energy to switch to this project.
Most of what you request should be reasonably easily doable.
About the ongoing team battles, I definitely am interested but gotta leave it for later. Maybe when the game is over and discussions are revealed.
Thank you for appreciating!
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| « Last Edit: Sep 3rd, 2011, 11:31am by clojure » |
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Sconibulus
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Re: Game viewer / analysis tool
« Reply #130 on: Sep 3rd, 2011, 3:15pm » |
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Considering move 30 will be over a year from now, and games often go much deeper than that, I hope you don't have to wait that long to see how useful your creation's been. : () )
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clojure
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Re: Game viewer / analysis tool
« Reply #131 on: Sep 4th, 2011, 2:16am » |
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Time is flying at the moment so maybe I won't even notice a year passing by 
But yeah, probably I'll check it out sooner! Thanks for commenting.
Any ideas and bugs are encouraged to put here.
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tharkun
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Re: Game viewer / analysis tool
« Reply #132 on: Feb 21st, 2012, 6:34pm » |
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It's been a while, but just for the case that the developer of this tool is still following the thread I would like to express my delight with finding this game viewer. It is incredibly useful; despite the bugs it is much better than using the comments to a game for analysis.
It seems that the development of the viewer (which is in beta phase) has been halted. Still, clojure was asking for ideas and bugs in the previous last post in this thread, so I'll post my comments on the off chance that a developer is interested in it. In the long run a good game viewer could be a crucial tool for serious Arimaa study. I checked the code myself, but I fear it's mostly abracadabra for me  .
My two main suggestions for improvement (1 bug and 1 idea):
1. The text fields for comments are unreliable. Comments for the first and last move are never saved. Copy & paste works on an irregular basis: inserting text manually in the import window quite often, copy & paste between two different comment fields sometimes, pasting plain text at times, from a web browser seldom. I haven't managed to find a clear pattern yet. Restarting the browser occassionally helps. Now and then the comments do show up in the browser but do not get saved, while at other times simply switching to another move and back causes a new comment to disappear.
2. More clarity regarding the save data. The viewer seems to use both cookies and some other form of local storage. Not all browsers support the use of cookies by localhost, and even if they do it is bothersome that all cookies are in the same data file on the harddisk. It means that you cannot easily delete cookies in your browser of use. Moreover, it is not clear how I can safeguard my data. It is sufficient to backup cookies.dat (or a file with a similar name), or some other form of persistent data as well?!
I want to reiterate Fritz's statement in order to end on a positive note: any issues are dwarfed by the sheer usefulness of having this tool.
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clojure
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Re: Game viewer / analysis tool
« Reply #133 on: Feb 22nd, 2012, 2:54am » |
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Thanks! I replied privately to you.
About local storage: it was just a convenient way to make saving possible without adding server side code. For exchanging ideas (and permanently securing content) you should just export it as text file. Of course better mechanism should be done, if ever the original vision of this tool was to be realized...
Not sure about copy-paste problems, I think it's that there is event handling for listening key strokes, and not just any kind of change. If I remember correctly, there's no reliable way to programmatically get notification for textarea's change ('change' event might work). Before anything is done about this, try just to press some key inside the comment area, and remove it.
Sorry about the quality of code; it's not well abstracted. I was just too hurried to get something interesting working.
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tharkun
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Re: Game viewer / analysis tool
« Reply #134 on: Feb 22nd, 2012, 6:29am » |
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Thanks for your reply! I think that it's not about the quality of the code, since I haven't done any programming in Javascript before. It's just that it was either too complicated for me and/or it didn't resemble programming languages familiar to me closely enough.
About the save games: I guess that I was trying to use the viewer for something that was not intended in the first place. Exporting and importing works fine for single games. Searching for a particular game in the resulting text file is more logical, especially since the games are denominated as "game_23" and such in the game viewer.
My observations about the comments text fields are probably not useful as long as the issues cannot be reliably reproduced. This seems to be quite problematic with keystrokes, so I have concentrated on importing comments (which is the main workaround). Any comment in the place of one of the capital letters below does not get imported/saved:
Quote:1g "A" Ra1 Db1 Rc1 Rd1 De1 Rf1 Rg1 Rh1 Ra2 Hb2 Cc2 Md2 Ee2 Cf2 Hg2 Rh2 "B"
1s "C" ra7 hb7 cc7 ed7 me7 df7 hg7 rh7 ra8 rb8 rc8 dd8 ce8 rf8 rg8 rh8 "D"
2g Ee2n Ee3n Ee4n Hg2n
[ 2g Ee2n Ee3n Hb2n Hg2n "E" 2s ed7s ed6s dd8s hg7s 3g "this works"
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2s ed7s hg7s dd8s ed6s
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There is also a text box for the position before 3g in the main line, but comments in that box do not get saved. However, there is a workaround, which I showed in the variation: just manually add an empty move for gold in the import window.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 22nd, 2012, 6:36am by tharkun » |
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