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Topic: Arimaa Sportsmanship Text (Read 1450 times) |
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99of9
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Gnobby's creator (player #314)
 
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Arimaa Sportsmanship Text
« on: Sep 22nd, 2004, 12:47pm » |
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Hi Omar,
I notice you've changed the Code of Conduct / Sportsmanship notice in the gameroom. Although I support the no-agreed-draws/no-resignations policy, I am uncomfortable with some of the text. Here are my comments:
Quote:| Arimaa is not just a game, it's a sport. Some features of Arimaa that make it a sport are: |
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This is the first thing I don't agree with. If games are different to sports, in my opinion arimaa definitely comes into the category of game. Obviously I haven't yet dealt with the reasons you set out for calling it a sport, but I'll come to that. I think websites which make outrageous claims for their products often put people off altogether when they're first looking around. Instead I would suggest "I like to think of Arimaa like a sport. Here's why:".
Quote:| * Very low chances of a natural draw. Although it is possible, it's so rare that seeing one is quite spectacular. |
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What about soccer? The most popular sport in the world regularly ends in a draw. Don't get me wrong, lack of draws is a great, compelling, exciting thing, but it's not a feature of sport, and it's a feature of many games (eg hex, bridge, ...).
Quote:| * It is not uncommon of a player to make a comeback from a seeming lost position and win the game. Thus making the games very exciting suspensful to the end. |
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I agree this is sport-like (although perhaps it occurs in other games? othello?).
Quote:| * Practically impossible to thoroughly analyse a game. The extreamly high number of possible move at each players turn make it virtually impossible to go back and analyse a finished game. |
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You're right, there's something behind this, but you say it too technically - people wouldn't talk about a sport like this  . Instead I would say something like: "Players can change the flow in any direction at any move of the game, there are uncountable possibilities, set-plays are nearly useless, flexibility and responsiveness are key, personality matters."
Once again, technically other games satisfy this criterion too (Go).
Quote:| When was the last time you saw a football team resign half way through the game just because they were 3 or 4 goals behind.. |
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You've saved your best point for last. This spectator-oriented "battle-to-the death" concept is, I presume, the reason that you want no draws or resignations. If I were you I'd put this up front, rather than trying to argue over definitions.
Something like "Arimaa is designed to be an exciting contest: natural draws are extremely rare; the game can flow freely in many directions; it's not over till it's over - comebacks are common; smart defence or counterattacks can often frustrate even the most overwhelming forces. It's exciting to watch, and exciting to play, all the way. We'd like to preserve this, so please fight your duels out to the bitter end. Prove your tenacity - losing in 31 moves is considered better than losing in 30 moves. Agreed draws or resignations make a game boring - when was the last time a football team resign half way through the game just because they were 3 or 4 goals behind?"
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clauchau
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Re: Arimaa Sportsmanship Text
« Reply #1 on: Sep 22nd, 2004, 2:07pm » |
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Well put
And you just made yourself the forum God!
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omar
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Re: Arimaa Sportsmanship Text
« Reply #2 on: Sep 23rd, 2004, 5:21am » |
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Hi Toby,
Thanks for the feedback.
I didn't mean to imply that some other games are not sport like or that Arimaa is the only game that is. But maybe the initial statement was a bit too bold; I've changed it now to clearly not imply that. I didn't change much of the other stuff because I want to keep seperate the 'no mutual draws' from the 'do not resign'.
Omar
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: Arimaa Sportsmanship Text
« Reply #3 on: Sep 24th, 2004, 11:33am » |
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I support the goal of encouraging Arimaa to be sport-like and to be spectator friendly. If Arimaa is as fun to watch as it is to play, then there will be more fans of the game. The Arimaa community could grow by leaps and bounds.
Even so, I wonder whether there would be a more positive way to phrase the paragraph discouraging resignation. Right now it says essentially "You are a poor sport if you resign". That's an opinion, not a fact, and an opinion I don't share.
Yes, football teams don't resign, but then again, they still have eleven players on the field throughout the game. Each team has an opportunity to score the next goal no matter what has happened before. They can pretend the game is just starting, and play just the same as if the game were still tied. Arimaa isn't inherently like football, because the playing field doesn't stay level. If your opponent has captured your camel and both horses for nothing, you don't have an equal opportunity to score next, and in fact there may be very little you can do. You can't play just the same as if you weren't losing - it's impossible by the very rules of the game.
You may consider it poor sportsmanship to resign, Omar, and you have a right to make your opinion the official policy on your own server. I will obey your policy, and I will not resign. Respecting your policy on this matter is the least I can do to thank you for designing an excellent game, and building and maintaining an excellent server. That said, I object to the way the sportsmanship policy is stated now, and I think it could be off-putting to others as well.
Why not state things positively instead, as requests not condemnation? You could say "In the interest of making Arimaa a good spectator sport, resignation is heavily discouraged. If a football team resigned after getting behind by three or four goals, the fans wouldn't get their money's worth, and the players wouldn't have all the fun they could get out of the game. Please contribute to the enjoyment and popularity of Arimaa by playing out all positions to the end."
Just out of curiosity, what is the relative priority in your mind between getting more people to play Arimaa on the server, and getting them to play in a certain way? To be more precise: If there is someone who doesn't always play the game out to the end, and they won't stop doing it, would you rather have them not play here at all?
Depending on how you feel about it, you could bar people who consistently resign prematurely from playing on the server ever again. The other extreme would be to permit people to do whatever they like, to not use any negative means, but rather to present a positive goal, encourage people to share in that goal, and to trumpet the positive aspects of not resigning.
The in-between option of mere condemnation and making people feel unwelcome is very unsatisfactory. Make non-resignation a hard and fast rule, if you must, but even if you do I encourage you to say "You are being barred for not following policy" rather than "You are being barred because you are a poor sport."
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omar
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Re: Arimaa Sportsmanship Text
« Reply #4 on: Sep 26th, 2004, 2:55pm » |
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You raise some good points, Karl.
Actually I would like it to be a custom that Arimaa
players do not resign and play the games to the
end. It makes the game more sports like and never
leaves any doubt about how it could have finished.
I would never go to the extent of not allowing someone
to play just because they always resign their games.
Usually new players do resign, but after a while they see
that others are playing the game to the end and soon
they usually start to do the same. But even if they
didn't it's not a show stopper.
I certainly don't want to turn anyone off, so
I've gone back and changed the page again.
Have a look and see what you think.
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: Arimaa Sportsmanship Text
« Reply #5 on: Sep 30th, 2004, 10:07am » |
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Omar,
Thanks for changing the sportsmanship text. I'm glad that you want to encourage everyone to play on this server, and not make anyone feel unwelcome, even if they choose to resign sometimes.
I expect there will be a natural tendency for people to resign more often at first, but less and less often as they get used to Arimaa, whether or not there is an official policy against resignation.
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RonWeasley
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Harry's friend (Arimaa player #441)
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Re: Arimaa Sportsmanship Text
« Reply #6 on: Oct 1st, 2004, 11:10am » |
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Another motivation to complete a lost game comes to mind. It provides a demonstration of the endgame. This has two important audiences: beginners and bot developers. I personally found it difficult to convert the rabbit in a won game without some experience first. Replaying others' games was my primary learning tool. That and a finalitus spell Hermione taught me.
Getting a bot to play well from behind is especially valuable against other bot opponents. If the bot opponent botches the endgame and falls for your traps, your bot can steal a win.
Finally, what player would not enjoy a reputation for stuborn resistance, as Fritzlein seems to be acquiring?
Ron
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