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Topic: Which area of the board is most important? (Read 2076 times) |
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99of9
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Which area of the board is most important?
« on: Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:13am » |
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Since I'm not very good at keeping secrets, here's some information I collected for my bot. This table shows the number of times this square was moved from during all the games between 1700+ rated players.
748 984 1148 1217 1316 1266 965 631
1655 2879 2953 3735 4040 3275 3025 1582
2054 4228 3008 5743 6059 3134 4373 2065
2180 4750 5111 6382 6612 5245 4869 2139
2164 4709 4980 6249 6224 4932 4726 2084
1990 4156 2995 5634 5615 2884 4210 1912
1540 2757 2961 3729 3793 3036 2957 1571
672 895 1130 1164 1184 1182 949 655
Notice that the centre of the board is the most active, and the traps are not very popular  .
OK, OK, I know it's obvious, but I needed these numbers for my bot anyway, and I thought you'd all like to see them.
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| « Last Edit: Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:16am by 99of9 » |
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99of9
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Gnobby's creator (player #314)
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Re: Which area of the board is most important?
« Reply #1 on: Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:26am » |
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And here's where the gold rabbits move from:
1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1
63 67 54 32 60 59 80 84
116 74 131 78 89 118 92 180
202 152 134 209 206 108 180 240
258 187 185 237 230 191 233 321
339 149 282 242 218 288 204 364
433 356 250 470 445 258 412 466
597 682 799 832 832 790 705 577
Did you know they prefer to win on the right hand side of the board??
Now the silver rabbits:
648 732 787 844 883 818 684 559
482 416 238 435 464 291 409 402
319 192 291 212 206 281 188 324
268 220 192 241 213 191 184 270
205 159 110 207 198 130 170 204
147 80 145 81 79 114 95 147
63 69 49 58 56 71 86 81
0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
Who seem to prefer winning on the same side of the board (their left, the gold players' right).
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| « Last Edit: Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:29am by 99of9 » |
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99of9
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Gnobby's creator (player #314)
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Re: Which area of the board is most important?
« Reply #2 on: Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:28am » |
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Here's where the silver rabbits get pushed or pulled around by gold:
28 73 152 137 161 177 111 31
103 147 302 177 213 342 161 85
117 203 15 233 262 20 199 75
114 76 113 104 112 109 73 85
147 112 177 116 123 174 96 133
100 160 13 134 128 7 131 75
37 31 53 35 30 36 38 30
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
For some reason gold hardly ever pushes/pulls rabbits OFF a trap .
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99of9
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Re: Which area of the board is most important?
« Reply #3 on: Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:39am » |
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Where the gold cats are pushed/pulled from:
0 0 0 0 2 0 1 1
3 6 6 10 9 9 8 4
29 70 1 32 39 3 45 14
31 52 87 49 43 97 36 28
32 90 62 92 77 58 66 29
22 166 11 190 184 16 163 25
8 41 285 76 78 258 30 9
0 3 11 2 2 5 4 1
Where the gold dogs are pushed or pulled from:
1 4 7 0 1 0 2 0
6 12 28 12 12 28 13 5
15 71 4 49 50 4 74 31
38 66 135 38 43 116 60 46
36 113 97 52 64 69 84 40
34 258 14 127 129 11 232 34
16 38 138 41 38 150 37 8
0 2 7 2 3 10 4 1
Where the gold horses are pushed/pulled from:
1 4 5 2 9 2 1 0
9 22 43 30 32 46 24 8
28 117 3 85 77 9 130 23
47 94 163 68 71 173 81 45
29 117 113 102 92 113 96 39
18 165 15 97 117 11 140 21
3 22 49 31 20 34 24 8
0 1 5 1 0 4 4 1
Where the gold camels are pushed or pulled from:
0 8 2 3 3 5 3 0
16 23 22 32 33 29 18 25
20 76 3 59 52 3 74 19
23 51 66 43 46 67 48 33
22 30 55 80 88 56 40 11
2 19 15 112 186 19 39 4
0 6 20 139 104 18 7 1
0 1 1 1 1 2 0 0
And where the elephants get pushed around:
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
well this one is pretty straightforward to understand!
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99of9
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Re: Which area of the board is most important?
« Reply #4 on: Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:43am » |
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How about when the pieces move (from) of their own accord?
Where the gold cats prowl:
0 2 2 3 2 2 0 3
6 10 9 17 12 6 14 6
18 14 20 26 11 16 17 13
38 69 62 86 63 39 71 29
48 168 169 216 190 135 169 62
143 258 471 313 312 446 237 145
172 310 472 434 372 394 279 181
12 15 31 70 74 43 22 11
Where the gold dogs scamper:
1 6 8 6 4 13 6 0
11 69 55 47 36 49 61 9
43 72 62 47 47 49 87 56
88 181 108 133 132 87 171 99
158 315 184 218 201 205 328 169
329 401 419 276 283 405 403 289
361 422 293 222 242 291 446 302
9 14 16 34 46 43 23 6
Where the gold horses gallop:
3 11 25 19 19 40 24 3
18 161 181 178 228 259 249 39
91 248 170 168 179 227 353 154
166 477 314 340 325 371 576 208
191 593 452 418 425 487 676 233
207 618 385 359 347 422 637 252
209 603 248 241 247 295 559 254
9 11 25 22 25 15 14 7
Where the gold camels lope:
3 11 17 12 12 23 20 4
22 123 128 82 104 157 174 28
125 199 132 107 100 144 237 100
191 364 240 205 193 259 401 123
151 437 390 343 358 343 463 116
71 281 323 489 481 325 408 94
22 135 152 526 658 176 228 45
5 13 16 19 13 17 15 2
Where the elephants stomp:
19 26 9 9 4 10 3 0
15 95 146 483 535 186 98 5
46 223 223 1812 1907 240 195 30
54 520 1017 1917 2034 1092 491 39
52 444 708 1300 1282 695 393 37
24 313 240 768 696 180 250 18
2 58 75 475 423 60 67 9
0 8 8 6 8 5 4 1
I hope you found all this interesting, any interesting discussion / conclusions?
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| « Last Edit: Nov 3rd, 2004, 10:48am by 99of9 » |
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RonWeasley
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Harry's friend (Arimaa player #441)
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Re: Which area of the board is most important?
« Reply #5 on: Nov 3rd, 2004, 11:31am » |
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I wonder, if you segregated this data into winners and losers, would you see interesting patterns. One would be that winners move rabbits from the 7th rank and losers don't. I keep telling Harry that. But there may be other patterns indicating pins and framing. There's a lot of data mining that can be done. Segregating by move numbers and piece count could also be infomative.
Here's an anti-conclusion. Since good players move elephants from the center squares, avoid them in the first place! 
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99of9
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Re: Which area of the board is most important?
« Reply #6 on: Nov 3rd, 2004, 11:49am » |
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[EDIT: I don't disagree... the forum has somehow screwed up. That was the first line of another post I wrote, not this one!]
I disagree
umption on the winners vs losers thing is this:
Since both players are rated over 1700, I presume they both make "pretty good" moves [except for maybe one or two moves in the whole game]. Therefore even the losers moves are useful indicators of what is good (at least for my bot who doesn't know any better!).
You're right, if there are any statistically significant differences between what winners do and what losers do, then those differences are probably CRUCIAL (masterstrokes or blunders).
In fact, the more I think about it, the more curious I am. Here's the rabbit details:
Gold rabbit moves when silver eventually won.
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
3 4 2 4 5 4 8 9
27 13 29 23 19 33 15 57
75 59 45 91 77 30 60 94
119 93 79 122 110 75 102 138
167 76 137 126 116 125 89 170
231 198 153 284 273 156 235 236
312 386 468 508 502 452 393 287
Gold rabbit moves when gold eventually won.
1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1
60 63 52 28 55 55 72 75
89 61 102 55 70 85 77 123
127 93 89 118 129 78 120 146
139 94 106 115 120 116 131 183
172 73 145 116 102 163 115 194
202 158 97 186 172 102 177 230
285 296 331 324 330 338 312 290
Therefore it is crucial to do a victory dance on the goal row?
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| « Last Edit: Nov 3rd, 2004, 11:51am by 99of9 » |
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99of9
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Gnobby's creator (player #314)
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Re: Which area of the board is most important?
« Reply #7 on: Nov 3rd, 2004, 11:54am » |
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on Nov 3rd, 2004, 11:31am, RonWeasley wrote:| Segregating by move numbers and piece count could also be infomative. |
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Yes, I am definitely considering taking that kind of information into account. Also segregating by which way the pieces are pulled etc. But since there are so many possibilities I don't want to post them all here.
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omar
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Arimaa player #2
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Re: Which area of the board is most important?
« Reply #8 on: Nov 6th, 2004, 12:32pm » |
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Also it looks like we are very right handed. Or should I say right winged
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maker
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bot_tod's maker
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Re: Which area of the board is most important?
« Reply #9 on: Nov 6th, 2004, 2:37pm » |
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Suggestion about why we(well, not me, hehe) seem to win on the right hand side of the board. Gold's elephant is initially placed there. Also, when gold's elephant is initially placed on the right, doesn't silver's elephant usually place on the left(ie silver's right?)
What would be really interesting, to see how much positioning of the elephant has to do with wins, is if you did an analysis on where a player won compared to where their elephant started the game. Just a thought.
maker
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