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Topic: Re: If I may make a suggestion :) (Read 1424 times) |
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: If I may make a suggestion :)
« on: Mar 30th, 2005, 3:18am » |
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This is an interesting suggestion, and I think it has been made before in another thread. But in practice it may be difficult to conceal the identity of the bot during the game, even if you are assigned to a random bot. For example, just by the time used you can distinguish Arimaalon from Arimaazilla from Arimaazon. (And anyway these have the same evaluation, so generally the same tricks would work against each.) Arimaanator takes longer than any of these, so that would again be a giveaway, while Gnobot uses a variable time per move that none of the four previously mentioned bots uses.
Another difficulty is that people like to know how fast or slow the bot will be in advance of the game. Maybe they have time to play Arimaazilla but not Arimaanator, so they don't want randomness.
For me personally, I can see the advantages of being kept "honest" by randomizing the bot. I play differently against Arimaanator, Bomb, and Clueless, because I know different tricks work against each. For example, the EH attack is useless against Arimaanator, because it will just hit back with the camel, and since you have to take the camel hostage anyway, you might as well do that in the first place.
On the other hand, I don't think the pratical effect would be large. Even if the time management doesn't give the bot's identity away, the moves will soon. Against a random bot I could start by trying to take the camel hostage. If I can do it, I have an easy game, and I know my opponent is probably Arimaanator or a weaker bot. If I can't get the camel hostage, I know it is Clueless or Bomb, so I will try the EH attack. Depending on the response I can quickly distinguish between the two of them. I believe that after ten moves I will know the identity of my opponent, and then if I feel like it I can use whatever tricks I happen to know are successful against that opponent.
At some point, if the bots get better and also get more varied (as they have started to do as of this year's computer championship) then the idea of a random bot gets more and more useful. Also it will help when all bots can do time management as Gnobot, Clueless, and Bomb now do, i.e. play at any time control, using variable thought time per move. I can imagine half a dozen such bots, each with different strengths and weaknesses. Then randomization would start to be really useful as it could force one to play the board instead of the bot, i.e. choose an objectively strong move rather than a weak move which that particular bot can't handle. Also it might make the ratings a bit more accurate.
So maybe this is an idea whose time is coming, but for now has enough practical hurdles that it isn't quite worth the trouble of implementing. What do others think?
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mouse
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Arimaa player #784
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Re: If I may make a suggestion :)
« Reply #1 on: Mar 30th, 2005, 8:04am » |
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on Mar 30th, 2005, 3:18am, Fritzlein wrote:
I believe that after ten moves I will know the identity of my opponent, and then if I feel like it I can use whatever tricks I happen to know are successful against that opponent.
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I think you would know your opponent a lot faster than 10 moves for the moment. Since the opening setup is different between the different generations off bots.
Bomb and Gnobot will put 2 dogs on the back row on the first move. This will Arimaanator, Arimazilla, Arimaalon, Arimaazon never do. So after the opening move you have narrow the possible number of different opponents. 
I think only Clueless put the camel on the extreme wing so if there is a camel on the wing you will be playing clueless.
Then there is the only the old bots they will all have pretty much the same setup, but it will not matter which one you are playing since you can allways attempt to get the camel hostage. The only bot that will break this pattern is Loc but I think if a player can win against Arimaazon it doesn't really matter.
So for the moment I dont think there is much point in randomizing the bots. But maybe in the future. 
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