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Topic: Looking for tips on strategy (Read 3223 times) |
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Swynndla
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Arimaa player #1821
Posts: 235
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Looking for tips on strategy
« on: Mar 6th, 2006, 3:57am » |
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Hi I'm new to Arimaa, and even though I've had lots of problems playing online (shockwave on both linux pc's crashes all my different browsers, especially when I'm about to win  ... the only way I can play is to connected to a windows Citrix server that I don't admin, and play from there ... but in the mean time my rating kept going down to a low of 1024), I'm finding this game very addictive! 
Question: I'm now keen at looking for strategy tutorials (rather than ones on tactics) to read up on ... any advice besides what I've found? I've found:
- http://arimaa.com/arimaa/twiki/bin/view/Arimaa/ArimaaStrategy
- http://arimaa.com/arimaa/twiki/bin/view/Arimaa/FritzleinVsOmar2005PostalChampionship
I found the second one extremely good, and Fritzlein's post-games thoughts even better.
I know I should learn tactics first, but that's (to me) boring ... I'm hoping the tactics will sort themselves out.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 6th, 2006, 3:58am by Swynndla » |
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Swynndla
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Arimaa player #1821
Posts: 235
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Re: Looking for tips on strategy
« Reply #2 on: Mar 6th, 2006, 3:23pm » |
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Ahhhh thanks for that, I'll be sure to look at those links.
On the citrix windows server that I don't admin, using the IE browser isn't that good either, as every time I move, it hangs for a minute and I lose a minute each time I move. I installed firefox to my "Documents and Settings" folder which I have access to, and firefox (for windows) works very nicely. Now I should be able to start concentrating on playing some games.
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RonWeasley
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Harry's friend (Arimaa player #441)
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Re: Looking for tips on strategy
« Reply #3 on: Mar 7th, 2006, 7:28am » |
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Some of us who use Firefox experience frequent browser crashes beginning at around move 20. You can still get back into the game after you get back into the gameroom by clicking on your name next to your game icon. You lose about 30 seconds each time. It takes a while to get used to this and keeps me personally from playing harder opponents and fast time controls. If this happens to you and you lose you may elect to unrate your game.
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: Looking for tips on strategy
« Reply #4 on: Mar 7th, 2006, 8:14am » |
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on Mar 6th, 2006, 3:57am, Swynndla wrote:| I'm finding this game very addictive! |
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Join the club. I like to play Arimaa so much, it undermines every other project I undertake.
Quote:Question: I'm now keen at looking for strategy tutorials (rather than ones on tactics) to read up on ... any advice besides what I've found? I've found:
- http://arimaa.com/arimaa/twiki/bin/view/Arimaa/ArimaaStrategy
- http://arimaa.com/arimaa/twiki/bin/view/Arimaa/FritzleinVsOmar2005PostalChampionship
I found the second one extremely good, and Fritzlein's post-games thoughts even better. |
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Flattery will get you everywhere with me. I've extended the comments at http://arimaa.com/arimaa/twiki/bin/view/Arimaa/FritzleinVsOmar2005Postal Championship to move 42. It was a useful for exercise for me to review this game again, because I understand some of Omar's moves much better now than I did at the time. Back then I had no clue what he was up to, and was continually amazed that the game stayed balanced despite all the "bad" moves he was making. 
I believe (or at least hope!) my strategic understanding has matured somewhat in the intervening year, so my new commentary may contain some insights missing from my original post-game comments. Even so, there is so much I don't yet comprehend about the game, I'm sure that another year from now I'll look back on my current commentary as rubbish.
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Swynndla
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Arimaa player #1821
Posts: 235
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Re: Looking for tips on strategy
« Reply #5 on: Mar 7th, 2006, 3:13pm » |
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Well done! I'm learning a lot through that commentary ... I've found that annotated games in chess have help me a lot with understanding long term themes and strategies, so it's great to see this is starting to happen in arimaa
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Miki
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Arimaa player #1096
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Re: Looking for tips on strategy
« Reply #6 on: Mar 7th, 2006, 3:25pm » |
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Agreed, I read over a lot of that stuff after it was linked. I wish there were more annotated games put there, that would be a very good way to understand what's going on sometimes.
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Swynndla
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Arimaa player #1821
Posts: 235
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Re: Looking for tips on strategy
« Reply #7 on: Mar 7th, 2006, 4:18pm » |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arimaa says:
Code:| As David Fotland said, "For a while my program was as strong as or stronger than any person, but the human players improved rapidly and developed some new strategic concepts that were very difficult to capture in a computer program." |
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I know that there are several strategies that bot's don't handle all that well (http://arimaa.com/arimaa/twiki/bin/view/Arimaa/BotSlayer), but I'm wondering what strategies David Fotland was refering to specifically?
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: Looking for tips on strategy
« Reply #8 on: Mar 7th, 2006, 5:48pm » |
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on Mar 7th, 2006, 4:18pm, Swynndla wrote:
As far as I know, at the time David said that the only anti-bot strategies were camel hostage, elephant blockade, and rabbit-pulling. All the E-H attack variations came later.
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: Looking for tips on strategy
« Reply #9 on: Mar 8th, 2006, 5:11pm » |
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OK, now I have added commentary through the end. Swynndla, thanks for fixing the typos. Everyone else should feel free to fix mistakes as well, or better still, insert additional commentary. It would be great to have different interpretations of various moves, and to hash it out until the language reflects the consensus view on strategy rather than just my opinion. If you are too shy to challenge my pronouncements from on high, then at least ask questions about why an alternative interpreation wouldn't be valid. Obviously I didn't understand the game very well while it was happening, and I hardly believe I totally get it now either, so contradictory commentary is very desirable. TIA.
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Swynndla
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Arimaa player #1821
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Re: Looking for tips on strategy
« Reply #10 on: Mar 11th, 2006, 6:47pm » |
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I've been trying to look at it for the last couple of days, but all I get it dots and lines ... there must be a twiki problem?
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nbarriga
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Almost retired Bot Developer
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Re: Looking for tips on strategy
« Reply #11 on: Mar 11th, 2006, 7:02pm » |
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I'm having trouble with the Twiki this last 2 days also. The information seems to be downloaded, but my browser doesn't display it.
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: Looking for tips on strategy
« Reply #12 on: Mar 12th, 2006, 1:16am » |
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I also can't get the BotBashers page, or other pages in the local Wiki.
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Swynndla
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #1821
Posts: 235
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Re: Looking for tips on strategy
« Reply #13 on: Mar 20th, 2006, 7:48pm » |
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Now that twiki is up again, I went through the commented game:
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/twiki/bin/view/Arimaa/FritzleinVsOmar2005Postal Championship
I can understand some of it better now that I've played a few games, but I'm still impressed by the level of depth that you have shared! I learned heaps, thank you for annotating this game Fritzl
I have a few questions if I may, and I have also suggested fixes for possible typos (although I'm not sure about the east-west ones, as sometimes you refer to the east wing as Silver's west wing, and this is a bit confusing for me). I didn't think you'd mind, Fritzlein, if I pointed these things out (along with my questions) in this forum rather than emailing you, so I hope I wont offend you.
Here goes:
5w: "Current opening theory suggests that it is bad to give up a horse hostage on a wing where the opposing game waits," ... do you mean the opposing camel waits?
5b: "A plausible alternative attack would have been to push Omar's e3 horse to d3, unbalancing Omar's forces by putting both horses on the same wing, but that wouldn't be to Omar's disadvantage unless Fritzlein switched wings with his camel as well." ... (italics mine) not clear ... do you mean that if both camels were on the opposite wing, then Gold's east wing would be weaker, and vulnerable to such things as a E-H attack (whereas with the camel waiting, the east side isn't weak for Gold, as the camel is there to defend ... and Silver's camel cannot increase the pressure on the east wing while Gold's elephant is there, or it'll be in danger of being taken hostage)?
8b: "Had Fritzlein taken the hostage, Omar would have defended c6 with his elephant, leading into a class of positions that is very poorly understood to this day. Opinion varies wildly both as to whether Gold or Silver would stand better in the resulting position, and as to what strategy each player should pursue." ... that surprised me, as I though it was an established fact that taking a H hostage with an E is disadvantageous - or is it only if a bot does it?
15w: "Fritzlein believes that the camel hostage will be worth more than a cat, and Omar thinks the cat will be worth more. The last word on this trade-off has not yet been written" ... again I'm surprised, as I thought that most people now say that a camel hostage is worth a dog?
19w: "Omar takes advantage of the temporary misplacement of Fritzlein's pieces lauch an elephant-horse attack on f6." - missing word and also launch is misspelled --> "Omar takes advantage of the temporary misplacement of Fritzlein's pieces by launching an elephant-horse attack on f6." Also "effective" --> "effectively"
28b: "His own west wing is now too depleted to flip Omar's horse to b4 and launch a goal attack" --> "The east wing is now too depleted to flip Omar's horse to g4 and launch a goal attack" ... or words to that effect.
31b: "If Omar gets the camel hostage, Fritzlein might not get as much as cat in compensation like Omar did in the opening." --> "If Omar gets the camel hostage, Fritzlein might not get as much as a cat in compensation like Omar did in the opening."
41w: "He therefore launches the attack on c6 that he could have started on 40b." --> "He therefore launches the attack on c6 that he could have started on 40w."
45b: "Fritzlein decides has time to play the material game for one more move, time that his c7 dog buys him." --> "Fritzlein decides he has time to play the material game for one more move, time that his c7 dog buys him."
46b: "Fritzlein does the minimum to defend while pressing his western attack." --> "Fritzlein does the minimum to defend while pressing the eastern attack." ... or words to that effect.
48b: "and again calls into question Omar's refusing to offer it as a hostage on 45w." --> "and again calls into question Omar's refusing to offer it as a hostage on 43w."
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Ryan_Cable
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Arimaa player #951
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Re: Looking for tips on strategy
« Reply #14 on: Mar 20th, 2006, 10:34pm » |
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East and west are symmetric when gold is setting up so 1w only really has 32,432,400 possible moves. The 1b number is correct since gold’s setup always makes the board asymmetric.
I think 22b ce6w ef5w eee5n rh8w would have been a better move. I think the game would then continue with 23w Ef7w Ee7w cd6w Ed7s 23b de8s de7e ee6s ee5e, which I think leads to a D frame or a trade of D for C.
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