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Title: No capture goals/immobilizations Post by mistre on Apr 14th, 2008, 3:48pm I am generally pleased with the revised botbashers page, but there is one area I would like to change. The no capture records currently show the fastest to do so for each bot. However, this hasn't been done for alot of the bots, so there are too many n/a's. Also, since it is a relatively rare feat (In over 800 games, I think I have only had 1), and I already listed all of the no-capture immos, I thought it would be nice to list all of the no-capture goals as well, regardless of speed. In actuality, the longer a no-capture game goes on, the more amazing it is - so I definitely don't think we should only show the "fastest" no-captures. Karl, can you run a query for ALL no-capture games in the database, and divide them by goal and immo? I will revise the no-capture table to show all no-capture games, but get rid of the bot names that don't have one. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: No capture goals/immobilizations Post by Fritzlein on Apr 15th, 2008, 8:13am I'm not sure whether no-capture wins are rare because they are so hard, or because they are so seldom tried, but anyway, here is the list you requested: [EDIT: Sorry I didn't sort this list by termination type as requested. I will repost later.] [EDIT: Results are now sorted.] id termination wusername busername 37699 g bot_Aamira2006Blitz DorianGaray 56962 g bot_Aamira2006Blitz The_Jeh 52525 g bot_Aamira2006CC mdk 25162 g bot_Aamira2006P1 OLTI 27714 g bot_Aamira2006P2 bot_Bomb2005P1 31521 g bot_Aamira2006P2 bot_Clueless2006Fast 38202 g bot_Aamira2006P2 bot_Loc2006P2 42640 g bot_Aamira2006P2 rjr 60723 g bot_Aamira2006P2 froody 63681 g bot_Aamira2006P2 Arimanator 64480 g bot_Aamira2006P2 kevs 8817 g bot_Arimaalon clauchau 10503 g bot_Arimaalon Adanac 11684 g bot_Arimaalon Keith 12611 g bot_Arimaalon OLTI 12772 g bot_Arimaalon Eduardo 13268 g bot_Arimaalon Terrabang 14305 g bot_Arimaalon megamau 17566 g bot_Arimaalon BlackKnight 18282 g bot_Arimaalon nbarriga 20189 g bot_Arimaalon Deadpool 21834 g bot_Arimaalon crispbadforiu 22599 g bot_Arimaalon CraigS 42782 g bot_Arimaalon Alky 47084 g bot_Arimaalon BBcardsRI 52816 g bot_Arimaalon thefrankinator 53875 g bot_Arimaalon Kruschak 56027 g bot_Arimaalon Steve 58632 g bot_Arimaalon jazz153 61634 g bot_Arimaalon thesonicvision 64222 g bot_Arimaalon omega91 67932 g bot_Arimaalon Dom83 2684 g bot_Arimaanator omar 3278 g bot_Arimaanator naveed 3779 g bot_Arimaanator whiteKnight 7820 g bot_Arimaanator Fritzlein 11236 g bot_Arimaanator BlackKnight 16112 g bot_Arimaanator blue22 27122 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 Guest4784 31629 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 tomcstein 54367 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 matrixclown 55605 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 Guest6800 56310 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 Kruschak 56313 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 Kruschak 56316 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 Kruschak 60282 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 jackacake 63479 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 The_Jeh 68641 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 zolli 1303 g bot_Arimaazilla omar 1494 g bot_Arimaazilla coachbudka 2050 g bot_Arimaazilla omar 2052 g bot_Arimaazilla omar 3010 g bot_Arimaazilla Belbo 3738 g bot_Arimaazilla whiteKnight 4349 g bot_Arimaazilla kamikazeking 5526 g bot_Arimaazilla markluffel 6573 g bot_Arimaazilla deselby 6863 g bot_Arimaazilla Belbo 6914 g bot_Arimaazilla RonWeasley 7381 g bot_Arimaazilla angrytuna 7866 g bot_Arimaazilla quicky 8138 g bot_Arimaazilla ytri 8653 g bot_Arimaazilla naveed 8781 g bot_Arimaazilla ytri 8877 g bot_Arimaazilla PMertens 11574 g bot_Arimaazilla naveed 17991 g bot_Arimaazilla rick 21624 g bot_Arimaazilla aanno 22101 g bot_Arimaazilla crispbadforiu 24375 g bot_Arimaazilla bot_Loc2005P2 24748 g bot_Arimaazilla Condo3356 26073 g bot_Arimaazilla bot_Loc2006Blitz 28452 g bot_Arimaazilla Matthias 29082 g bot_Arimaazilla bot_Bomb2005Blitz 35207 g bot_Arimaazilla syed 40685 g bot_Arimaazilla Tore 43701 g bot_Arimaazilla fwk 56589 g bot_Arimaazilla Krasnotron 62953 g bot_Arimaazilla Soter 65436 g bot_Arimaazilla NS_Serg 66570 g bot_Arimaazilla awedxz 67243 g bot_Arimaazilla gert7 70113 g bot_Arimaazilla JohnJames 9569 g bot_Arimaazon handsomestofall 10275 g bot_Arimaazon boris_toplak 12008 g bot_Arimaazon Adanac 17575 g bot_Arimaazon BlackKnight 21858 g bot_Arimaazon jonaspojken 5318 g bot_bomb omar 58689 g bot_Bomb2005P1 megamau 72312 g bot_Bomb2005P1 Agt 24428 g bot_Clueless2005Blitz bot_GnoBot2005Blitz 27652 g bot_Clueless2005Blitz Arimanator 35238 g bot_Clueless2005Blitz Chegorimaa 17400 g bot_Clueless2005P1 BlackKnight 50373 g bot_Clueless2005P1 dougk 50781 g bot_Clueless2005P1 syed 40362 g bot_Clueless2005P2 blue22 65002 g bot_Clueless2005P2 froody 69485 g bot_Clueless2005P2 bananaman 44466 g bot_Clueless2006Fast bot_clueless 29176 g bot_Fairy bot_Arimaazilla 4098 g bot_GnoBot kamikazeking 22823 g bot_GnoBot bot_clueless 11414 g bot_GnoBot2004CC Belbo 51761 g bot_GnoBot2005Blitz Adanac 12260 g bot_GnoBot2005Fast Fritzlein 25844 g bot_GnoBot2005Fast OLTI 60088 g bot_GnoBot2005Fast Ganesha 17403 g bot_GnoBot2005P1 BlackKnight 24611 g bot_GnoBot2005P1 bot_Loc2005P2 27249 g bot_GnoBot2005P1 bot_Loc2005P2 28053 g bot_GnoBot2005P1 bot_Loc2005P2 30713 g bot_GnoBot2005P1 bot_Loc2005P2 24919 g bot_GnoBot2005P2 fritzlforpresident 25583 g bot_GnoBot2005P2 Belbo 26284 g bot_GnoBot2005P2 Swynndla 49647 g bot_GnoBot2005P2 mistre 42031 g bot_GnoBot2006Blitz Aquarius 33715 g bot_GnoBot2006P1 Andhi 34331 g bot_GnoBot2006P1 knarl 25184 g bot_Loc2005CC bot_Aamira2006P2 18007 g bot_Loc2005P1 99of9 48200 g bot_Loc2006P1 Sixhobbits 68753 g bot_Loc2006P1 chlydra 1126 g bot_Occam naveed 1467 g bot_Occam Nate1729 1743 g bot_Occam omar 1852 g bot_Occam naveed 2498 g bot_Occam bleitner 2683 g bot_Occam omar 2763 g bot_Occam Belbo 2917 g bot_Occam Belbo 9801 g bot_pmertens_1 bot_ShallowBlue 759 g bot_ShallowBlue clauchau 787 g bot_ShallowBlue asyed94 2807 g bot_ShallowBlue terra 6107 g bot_ShallowBlue pso 7374 g bot_ShallowBlue ytri 8581 g bot_ShallowBlue Dacar 8981 g bot_ShallowBlue luzer 9276 g bot_ShallowBlue PMertens 9324 g bot_ShallowBlue mouse 9328 g bot_ShallowBlue akiva 9489 g bot_ShallowBlue mouse 9495 g bot_ShallowBlue mouse 9535 g bot_ShallowBlue mouse 9542 g bot_ShallowBlue mouse 9749 g bot_ShallowBlue omar 12641 g bot_ShallowBlue OLTI 16389 g bot_ShallowBlue Erk 26908 g bot_ShallowBlue smojo 72805 g bot_ShallowBlue griffonage 19816 g bot_weiserP2 bot_Loc2005P2 19475 m bot_Arimaanator Arimanator 12575 m bot_Arimaazon Belbo 19321 m bot_Bomb2005Blitz Arimanator 19357 m bot_Bomb2005Blitz Arimanator 19364 m bot_Bomb2005Blitz Arimanator 19372 m bot_Bomb2005Blitz Arimanator 19378 m bot_Bomb2005Blitz Arimanator 19392 m bot_Bomb2005Blitz Arimanator 19459 m bot_Bomb2005Blitz Arimanator 19670 m bot_Bomb2005Blitz Arimanator 19154 m bot_Bomb2005Fast Arimanator 44185 m bot_Clueless2006Fast milo id termination wusername busername 7186 g bot_Arimaazilla bot_Aamira 32111 g chrismccoll bot_Aamira2006Blitz 33603 g seanick bot_Aamira2006Blitz 35055 g kerdamdam bot_Aamira2006Fast 25254 g bot_Occam2004CC bot_Aamira2006P2 28462 g Matthias bot_Aamira2006P2 40126 g sihing bot_Aamira2006P2 56414 g TonyT bot_Aamira2006P2 62303 g wumps bot_Aamira2006P2 66276 g gert7 bot_Aamira2006P2 8768 g novacat bot_Arimaalon 9059 g handsomestofall bot_Arimaalon 11210 g Tobi bot_Arimaalon 11706 g Merlin bot_Arimaalon 12000 g dtj bot_Arimaalon 14383 g OLTI bot_Arimaalon 17565 g BlackKnight bot_Arimaalon 17567 g BlackKnight bot_Arimaalon 54945 g Kruschak bot_Arimaalon 56334 g Robo707man bot_Arimaalon 57030 g Talmun bot_Arimaalon 57675 g Sthingy 45 bot_Arimaalon 3221 g bleitner bot_Arimaanator 3246 g bleitner bot_Arimaanator 9132 g PMertens bot_Arimaanator 24892 g fritzlforpresident bot_ArimaaScoreP1 25004 g clauchau bot_ArimaaScoreP1 25061 g IdahoEv bot_ArimaaScoreP1 34790 g Elmo bot_ArimaaScoreP1 36862 g Heidissimo bot_ArimaaScoreP1 37477 g i_am_you bot_ArimaaScoreP1 40297 g KlausX bot_ArimaaScoreP1 54368 g matrixclown bot_ArimaaScoreP1 55075 g Guest6708 bot_ArimaaScoreP1 56537 g Krasnotron bot_ArimaaScoreP1 57051 g rebyonak bot_ArimaaScoreP1 59890 g Guest7286 bot_ArimaaScoreP1 61796 g Kruschak bot_ArimaaScoreP1 64425 g jadtaylor bot_ArimaaScoreP1 71152 g PickPocket bot_ArimaaScoreP1 71716 g Kitashiyukoon bot_ArimaaScoreP1 72494 g 722caasi bot_ArimaaScoreP1 1866 g naveed bot_Arimaazilla 1927 g naveed bot_Arimaazilla 2385 g bleitner bot_Arimaazilla 2463 g bleitner bot_Arimaazilla 2812 g naveed bot_Arimaazilla 2953 g megamau bot_Arimaazilla 3368 g bot_leapfrog bot_Arimaazilla 4033 g Belbo bot_Arimaazilla 4148 g Hannibal bot_Arimaazilla 6577 g deselby bot_Arimaazilla 6892 g novicehex bot_Arimaazilla 7326 g Belbo bot_Arimaazilla 7583 g Belbo bot_Arimaazilla 10532 g Adanac bot_Arimaazilla 11538 g arvindn bot_Arimaazilla 12155 g dtj bot_Arimaazilla 12167 g inylong bot_Arimaazilla 12594 g Yusei bot_Arimaazilla 13025 g OLTI bot_Arimaazilla 14215 g Gregorius bot_Arimaazilla 17222 g rick bot_Arimaazilla 20957 g chrismccoll bot_Arimaazilla 24031 g frostlad bot_Arimaazilla 41592 g DegenerateGambler bot_Arimaazilla 57735 g IdahoEv bot_Arimaazilla 68581 g ArifSyed bot_Arimaazilla 9070 g maker bot_Arimaazon 10906 g Adanac bot_Arimaazon 11039 g arvindn bot_Arimaazon 12161 g PMertens bot_Arimaazon 13667 g Arimanator bot_Arimaazon 13992 g OLTI bot_Arimaazon 14787 g carlsquared bot_Arimaazon 15016 g carlsquared bot_Arimaazon 16821 g blue22 bot_Arimaazon 17569 g BlackKnight bot_Arimaazon 19202 g bot_Bomb2005Blitz bot_bash 58428 g Sthingy 45 bot_Bomb2005P1 1110 g MrBrain bot_Brain 17284 g BlackKnight bot_Clueless2005Blitz 40108 g blue22 bot_Clueless2005Fast 18146 g 99of9 bot_Clueless2005P1 33150 g jawdirk bot_Clueless2005P1 34961 g gcolbourn bot_Clueless2006P1 47848 g camelback bot_Clueless2006P1 66899 g gert7 bot_Clueless2006P1 5018 g bot_Occam bot_GnoBot 21968 g bot_Bomb2005Blitz bot_GnoBot 37334 g seanick bot_GnoBot2005Fast 31289 g bot_Aamira2006P2 bot_GnoBot2005P1 39677 g Nematode bot_GnoBot2005P1 49145 g Terennis bot_GnoBot2005P1 67557 g chlydra bot_GnoBot2005P1 44715 g bot_Bomb2005CC bot_GnoBot2006CC 28521 g rcline bot_GnoBot2006P1 51800 g Yusaku bot_GnoBot2006P1 28738 g bot_Loc2006Fast bot_GnoBot2006P2 30938 g bot_Bomb2005Fast bot_GnoBot2006P2 12699 g asheesh bot_iiith 18005 g 99of9 bot_Loc2005P1 57133 g Talmun bot_Loc2005P1 51083 g aaaa bot_Loc2006CC 25944 g KT2006 bot_Loc2006P1 41354 g The_Jeh bot_Loc2006P1 44225 g esg bot_Loc2006P1 48074 g Sixhobbits bot_Loc2006P1 66589 g silump5 bot_Loc2006P1 317 g kamikazeking bot_Occam 670 g siddiqna bot_Occam 685 g bot_bomb bot_Occam 1011 g MrBrain bot_Occam 3650 g Belbo bot_Occam 4140 g Belbo bot_Occam 31693 g bot_Bomb2005P2 bot_Occam2004CC 72057 g bot_Bomb2005CC bot_OpFor 297 g Lucky bot_ShallowBlue 491 g mohabbatse bot_ShallowBlue 1569 g cam43031 bot_ShallowBlue 1849 g omar bot_ShallowBlue 3367 g bot_leapfrog bot_ShallowBlue 4090 g lemmy bot_ShallowBlue 5083 g tomcstein bot_ShallowBlue 5086 g tomcstein bot_ShallowBlue 5131 g TheMadHair bot_ShallowBlue 5721 g Jojo bot_ShallowBlue 7283 g BlackKnight bot_ShallowBlue 8846 g handsomestofall bot_ShallowBlue 8848 g handsomestofall bot_ShallowBlue 9028 g 88of8 bot_ShallowBlue 9120 g pop bot_ShallowBlue 9264 g brad bot_ShallowBlue 9286 g mouse bot_ShallowBlue 9494 g mouse bot_ShallowBlue 9534 g mouse bot_ShallowBlue 9543 g mouse bot_ShallowBlue 11459 g alexispoquiz bot_ShallowBlue 11926 g tryingarimaa bot_ShallowBlue 12314 g Yusei bot_ShallowBlue 12640 g OLTI bot_ShallowBlue 12719 g rhy bot_ShallowBlue 12767 g Eduardo bot_ShallowBlue 12768 g Eduardo bot_ShallowBlue 12770 g Eduardo bot_ShallowBlue 12890 g jt4ur bot_ShallowBlue 13561 g OLTI bot_ShallowBlue 14768 g Booyah bot_ShallowBlue 15710 g OLTI bot_ShallowBlue 16513 g rick bot_ShallowBlue 16518 g rick bot_ShallowBlue 17611 g taleywhacker bot_ShallowBlue 20185 g Deadpool bot_ShallowBlue 20597 g Ethos bot_ShallowBlue 23448 g Masonic_Edge bot_ShallowBlue 23786 g TheHittMan0081 bot_ShallowBlue 26717 g AKALucifer bot_ShallowBlue 28648 g IdahoEv bot_ShallowBlue 33086 g jawdirk bot_ShallowBlue 34614 g bot_GnoBot2006Fast bot_ShallowBlue 43469 g Deck bot_ShallowBlue 67249 g wiggin bot_ShallowBlue 21932 g bot_GnoBot bot_V 19806 g PMertens bot_weiserP2 29895 g Masonic_Edge bot_WRK847 40109 m Brendan bot_Aamira2006CC 12313 m PMertens bot_Arimaanator 14259 m Ryan_Cable bot_Arimaazilla 19327 m Arimanator bot_Bomb2005Blitz 19445 m PMertens bot_Bomb2005Blitz 19132 m Arimanator bot_Bomb2005Fast 21318 m Belbo bot_Bomb2005Fast 63271 m Arimanator bot_Bomb2005Fast 17544 m Arimanator bot_Bomb2005P2 37625 m PMertens bot_Bomb2005P2 37674 m PMertens bot_Bomb2005P2 59165 m Arimabuff bot_Clueless2006P2 18992 m PMertens bot_GnoBot2005CC 28430 m Arimanator bot_GnoBot2006Fast 46885 m Belbo bot_Zombie |
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Title: Re: No capture goals/immobilizations Post by 99of9 on Apr 15th, 2008, 10:37pm on 04/15/08 at 08:13:56, Fritzlein wrote:
My feeling is that listing all of these is a bit of a pointless exercise. Against a simple bot, this is an easy thing to achieve, which is why not many people try (unless they are trying to do it quickly). If people tried, this list could easily blow out, and it's already so long that nobody would ever go through it game by game. |
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Title: Re: No capture goals/immobilizations Post by mistre on Apr 16th, 2008, 9:45am After seeing the length of this list, I have to agree with you. That is why I have decided to list only P2 bots and higher on the ladder for no-capture goals, and all immobilizations. That pares it down to 33 goals and 24 immos. I think the no-capture move records are pretty meaningless for the P1 bots and Occam, Shallowblue, Arimalon, Arimaazilla because they typically are the same as the fastest goal anyways and it is not particularly hard to do. P2 bots put up more of a fight and therefore it is very rare that you can win without any pieces being taken on either side. All of these games, regardless of number of moves should be recognized. Coincidently, 15 of the 33 goals were against Aamira2006p2 and its attacking style, which makes sense. So only 18 other no-capture goals vs other P2 bots and higher (fast, blitz, cc) are on record out of 75,000 games. A rare feat indeed. |
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Title: Re: No capture goals/immobilizations Post by Fritzlein on Apr 16th, 2008, 9:52am The list is now sorted. on 04/16/08 at 09:45:31, mistre wrote:
But a difficult one? Anyway, if you are up to the task of listing it every time someone does it, I don't see a problem. |
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Title: Re: No capture goals/immobilizations Post by mistre on Apr 16th, 2008, 10:34am Thanks for sorting, but you were a wee bit late in doing that, as I already sorted by hand in an excel spreadsheet! :-/ Anyways, I think that no-capture goals vs P2 bots are so rare because newer players usually will lose a piece at some point, and experienced players typically have other concerns if going for records (fastest goal, immo, or handicap - which typically conflict with the no-capture rule ). The exception is the no-capture immos, which are specifically planned for. Of the handful of no-capture goals vs P2 bots, I would bet that few, if any at all, were actually intentional. I would have to go back and look at each game to see if there were any times where a player refused to take a piece without an immediate goal threat. It is still up for debate how difficult it is to pull off a no-capture goal with the intention of doing so at the beginning of the game (vs a P2 bot or higher). I might try a few times and see. Maybe it would be the right decision not to recognize no-capture goals at all, only immos. Any opinions out there? |
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Title: Re: No capture goals/immobilizations Post by Arimabuff on Apr 16th, 2008, 11:16am on 04/16/08 at 10:34:42, mistre wrote:
Just my two cents... People usually understand a "hall of fame" as giving an account of RARE feats. The best game for each imaginable category plus a few EXCEPTIONAL games looks like the way to go. Nobody's idea of rare can include a listing of 300 GAMES sharing ONE characteristic, especially over a period of five years with 30 people playing Arimaa on a regular basis at a moment's notice. |
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Title: Re: No capture goals/immobilizations Post by mistre on Apr 16th, 2008, 1:29pm I have decided to ditch the no-capture goal records. The botbasher page has been updated. Also there were a few more no-capture immobilizations that I found in the recent list that were not caught before. All of them should be listed now. |
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Title: Re: No capture goals/immobilizations Post by Fritzlein on Apr 16th, 2008, 3:06pm on 04/16/08 at 13:29:48, mistre wrote:
So you have come from listing all such games to not even listing the fastest against each bot? Interesting... I guess one guide to whether a class of records should be in the Hall of Fame is whether people compete for those records or not. Given that most no-capture goals happened incidentally, and not many people have ever intentionally tried for no-capture goal, your decision makes sense. Originally it was Omar who suggested that type of record and tried for it in one game of the 2004 Challenge, but it never caught on as much as other types of botbashing challenges. |
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Title: Re: No capture goals/immobilizations Post by Arimabuff on Apr 16th, 2008, 5:11pm on 04/16/08 at 15:06:53, Fritzlein wrote:
I never cared all that much for them anyway. They are usually of the dull kind. At least a no capture immo. has an ending that looks spectacular. |
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