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        Arimaa >> General Discussion >> Going to SuperNationals 2013
        
(Message started by: omar on Mar 16^th, 2013, 10:10pm)

Title: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by omar on Mar 16^th, 2013, 10:10pm

http://uschess.org/tournaments/2013/snv/

The USCF approved Arimaa as a vendor at the SuperNationals V. I will be having a booth there. If anyone else is attending, please stop by and visit us.

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by Fritzlein on Mar 17^th, 2013, 11:57am

What fun! I have long believed that chess players are our most natural market, even though it is a tough market to crack because chess players are not interested in any games other than chess. I hope that having two books, a tournament-size set, an Android app, and an iPhone app makes Arimaa look enough like chess to cross some hurdle of seriousness. Chess players may be harder to draw in, but they are easier to keep once we get them started.

The Arimaa World Championships will still be going that weekend. I think live commentary of a final-round game would be a fabulous thing to display in your booth if the timing works out. Maybe the game won't be scheduled at a good time for chess spectators, but just in case, you had better be sure to have a laptop and speakers along with you.

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by omar on Mar 19^th, 2013, 6:19am

Yes, it would be great if we had a game going with live commentary at the booth. If not I will replay a video from a previous year :-)

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by rabbits on Mar 19^th, 2013, 4:28pm

I am tentatively planning on going! Details about the schedule and whether or not I should sign up for anything would be helpful! Are you going to be there all three days, Omar? It would be great to meet you in person!

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by omar on Mar 21^st, 2013, 8:29am

Yes, I'll be there all three days. I'm really looking forward to meeting you.

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by Fritzlein on Mar 23^rd, 2013, 10:41am

Yesterday I taught a math class for the first time in a while. It reminded me that, although everyone understands that a teacher must know the subject, far fewer people understand that a teacher must know the class. Identical material must be communicated differently to different audiences.

This made me think how to pitch Arimaa to chess players. Chess players speak their own language, and you will reach them best if you speak it too. For example, to most chess players, "new" does not mean "cool and interesting". I haven't done any focus group research, but I'll bet a nickel in the dark that chess players will react better to Arimaa if you call it a "modern strategy game" than if you call it a "new strategy game".

Below are some other talking points I expect chess players to respond to favorably. [Don't include the justification in brackets. Keep it simple unless someone asks. The follow-ups are for talking, not for display.]

1) Arimaa has proven depth. [There are already eight class intervals of players (Elo 1000 to 2600) and more depth is discovered each year.]
2) Top humans beat top computers. [Arimaa players are two class intervals ahead of top computers in WHRE ratings.]
3) Arimaa has no draws. [Piece trades sharpen the position rather than deadening it. You can't trade down to a draw.]
4) Arimaa openings diverge more than Chess960. [The Shannon entropy of Arimaa is 10.7 bits vs. 9.9 bits for Chess960, and is increasing as we learn. This variety is voluntarily chosen in an effort to win, not imposed by dice.]
5) Both colors have equal chances. [Second setup in Arimaa is apparently worth as many tempi as first move.]

I admit that point 5 is not something any chess players lose sleep over, but points 2-4 are. You hear grumblings that "computers are killing chess", "draws are killing chess", and "I quit chess because I hated to memorize openings." So with all these complaints, why do millions of people keep playing chess? Mainly because of point #1, the proven depth of chess.

For comparison, the status of chess is
1) Chess has fourteen proven class intervals of depth.
2) Top chess players are at least one class interval behind top computers.
3) Top-level chess consists of 60% draws.
4) It is typical for high-level chess games to be "in book" for fifteen moves.
5) White scores 55% of points in chess to 45% for black.

But I believe smart marketing doesn't even directly mention any problems with chess. Omar, please do not display that second list anywhere in your booth. It is a major turn-off to go to a chess tournament and start telling people that their favorite game is broken. Leave out the negative and hammer on the positive.

In particular, hammer on point #1. Make sure to say you respect chess for its depth, and by the way Arimaa is a deep game, Arimaa has strategic depth, Arimaa is highly strategic, Arimaa is about position not calculation, Arimaa is a game of positional understanding, Arimaa has strategy books written about it, etc.

In this vein it would really help if we could get an endorsement from Boo. If Boo will say something nice about Arimaa, and we have that quote with a "(FIDE 2373)" behind it, that will impress chess players more than all the logical argument in the world. Are you up for it, Boo?

Also, have I missed any Arimaa talking points that are relevant for chess players?

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by Fritzlein on Mar 23^rd, 2013, 12:45pm

"In Arimaa, I correctly guess my opponent's move much less often than in chess, but I don't need to in order to win, because he can't guess mine!" --Valdas Bucinskas (FIDE 2373)

Thanks for the long chat about how you feel about Arimaa, Boo.

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by Boo on Mar 23^rd, 2013, 12:56pm

I am glad you liked it. Good luck at the SuperNationals!

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by rabbits on Mar 23^rd, 2013, 2:01pm

Thank you for writing this out for us Fritz! I had not realized how trading pieces can make positions more drawish in chess and more sharp in Arimaa!

Another talking point is that Arimaa may be played with a chess set and four quarters.

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by chessandgo on Mar 23^rd, 2013, 2:19pm

I like the idea of having a quote from Boo, but I'm not sure the can't guess quote is a positive argument to catch a chess player's attention. The fact that we can't guess opponent's move is a negtive looking flip-side of the positive looking fact that we have tremendous freedom in arimaa for our moves.

Wouldn't it be better to have something about the fact that you can always make a difference by finding a technically even more precise move? Staying positive?

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by Fritzlein on Mar 24^th, 2013, 10:41pm

Jean, give us a quote from you and we can use it with your FIDE rating. You can probably give a more unequivocal endorsement, right? Like, "I have little doubt that Arimaa possesses a strategic complexity at least as deep as chess," from your book, only maybe shorter, e.g. "Arimaa is at least as deep as chess." :)

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by Fritzlein on Mar 25^th, 2013, 8:41am

on 03/23/13 at 14:01:41, rabbits wrote:

Another talking point is that Arimaa may be played with a chess set and four quarters.

Good point! I don't like to call Arimaa a "chess variant", because I think chess variants have a bad name among a lot of chess players, but the fact that you don't have to buy a set to play has got to be a plus.

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by chessandgo on Mar 25^th, 2013, 1:14pm

Nah, I'd go with "Arimaa is (even) deeper than chess", or "Arimaa's strategy is even deeper than chess'." or "Arimaa is even more complex than chess", whatever looks best to your native speaker's eyes.

However, I do think getting a quote from Boo is an excellent idea, much better than having a quote from me. Boo's chess level is where the air gets thin enough to grab attention from anyone below that near-IM level (or is Boo IM even?), which is to say of almost everyone :)

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by Fritzlein on Mar 25^th, 2013, 1:26pm

on 03/25/13 at 13:14:48, chessandgo wrote:

I like "Arimaa is even deeper than chess", because the "even" implies that chess itself is very deep.

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by Arimabuff on Mar 27^th, 2013, 6:20am

on 03/25/13 at 13:26:39, Fritzlein wrote:

I like "Arimaa is even deeper than chess", because the "even" implies that chess itself is very deep.

How about "Arimaa is to Chess what the Mariana Trench is to Lake Superior"? :D

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by mistre on Apr 2^nd, 2013, 11:07am

Here is my quote.

"Arimaa is a excellently designed game that incorporates the timeless strategy and depth of Chess, but offers a whole new challenge. Elegant rules. Equal sides. Non-scripted openings. No draws. Play it now at www.arimaa.com."

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by browni3141 on Apr 2^nd, 2013, 1:33pm

on 04/02/13 at 11:07:07, mistre wrote:

I like that that doesn't try to imply that Arimaa is better than chess., but at the same time it is listing some advantages over chess. I don't think that claiming that Arimaa is superior would attract chess players. Rather it might alienate them.

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by omar on Apr 4^th, 2013, 2:25am

Wow, thanks everyone for all the suggestions, ideas, great quotes and well wishes. I really appreciate your support.

When it comes to presenting Arimaa to the world, I always gravitate to the core reason of why I created Arimaa. Which is simply to make a game that is difficult for computers and has no comparisons with Chess other than it can be played with a standard Chess set.

Here is the poster Aamir and I made for the event:

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/download/promo/Poster_SuperNationalsV.pdf

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by browni3141 on Apr 4^th, 2013, 1:08pm

on 04/04/13 at 02:25:32, omar wrote:

Nice poster! Which of the big games will be going on while you're there?

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by chessandgo on Apr 4^th, 2013, 4:35pm

Nice :)

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by Fritzlein on Apr 5^th, 2013, 5:09pm

Any report on how things went on the first day?

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by omar on Apr 6^th, 2013, 12:12am

It was a great day today. I meet a lot of young talented players and their parents. Arimaa was well received. I'm pretty tired from all the standing and talking. I probably won't be able to give a full report until I get back. But I can assure you it will be pretty exciting stuff.

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by Fritzlein on Apr 6^th, 2013, 9:25pm

OK, thanks for checking in. Omar. Maybe rabbits can give us a full report on his day at the tournament. ;D In particular I am wondering about games being broadcast in the booth. If that isn't working out and/or doesn't seem to be a big draw, I'm not going to commentate either of the Challenge games tomorrow; I have assignments pressing. :-/

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by rabbits on Apr 8^th, 2013, 12:15am

My time at SuperNationals was well worth the drive to Nashville! It was great to meet Omar and his wife! Here are a few of my pictures from Saturday.

Omar and me at the booth:

http://i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o678/SilverRabbits/IMG_20130406_141015_163_zps701474d4.jpg

Alexandra Kosteniuk signed a chess board for me! She is the 12th Women's World Chess Champion. Oh, and she and I have the same birthday :)

http://i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o678/SilverRabbits/IMG_20130406_172040_zps98fd50fc.jpg

This was a large event:

http://i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o678/SilverRabbits/IMG_20130406_132919_659_zpsd579f153.jpg

I mean, there were A LOT of kids and A LOT of chess:

http://i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o678/SilverRabbits/IMG_20130406_191908_509_zps73175878.jpg

And the Opryland is a very impressive conference center:

http://i1337.photobucket.com/albums/o678/SilverRabbits/IMG_20130406_125741_405_zpsa8bf0cc3.jpg

Overall, the chess players were quite receptive to Arimaa! Kids were more enthusiastic about it than their parents. Hopefully some of those bright young chess players will show up in the Arimaa gameroom soon! I'm sure Omar will write a more detailed report about people's reactions and about how many sets were sold and such.

I did show a portion of Browni's live game against BotMarwin on my laptop, but the battery died.

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by mistre on Apr 8^th, 2013, 12:38pm

Great Stuff Greg.

Can you post this over on the Facebook page as well? It would be good exposure for Arimaa.

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by Fritzlein on Apr 8^th, 2013, 3:14pm

Thanks for the great pics and report!

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by chessandgo on Apr 9^th, 2013, 5:24am

Cool, nice pics!

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by omar on Apr 10^th, 2013, 2:16am

I found out after I got there that the booths didn't have power and it was $125 if you wanted to get it. I figured I would just run off the notebook batteries as long as possible, but that didn't work very well. The hall was so big and noisy that my notebook speakers just could not be heard without putting your head close by. Aside from this, everything else turned out really well.

Here is the full report of Arimaa at the Super Nationals.

http://arimaa.com/arimaa/download/promo/Arimaa_at_SuperNationalsV.pdf

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by arimaa_master on Apr 10^th, 2013, 8:28am

This is just great. Thanks for the report Omar.

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by odin73 on Apr 10^th, 2013, 9:12am

Impressive report and great photos. I would wonder if that event won´t help Arimaa to become more known in the US. Imagine that one day, there will be such a great hall crowded with children playing Arimaa! :)

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by Fritzlein on Apr 10^th, 2013, 11:46am

Fabulous report, Omar. I didn't realize ahead of time that you would have such an opportunity to rub shoulders with chess promoters; I was only thinking of kids and parents. If anyone like the Shahades starts to take an interest in Arimaa it is bound to have positive repercussions. These activists/organizers have considerable influence. It's fun to dream about our next jolt of publicity (akin to xkcd 15 months ago) and what will come of it.

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by chessandgo on Apr 10^th, 2013, 3:58pm

Hey, cool report!

"He told me about how his cat got the name ‘hanzack’"

Come on, we wanna know that story too, that's a cliffhanger there!

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by omar on Apr 11^th, 2013, 11:27pm

Thanks guys. It was quite an exciting experience. I had no idea I might be meeting chess celebrities or USCF administrators. I just hope one of them tells Garry Kasparov about Arimaa and he learns to play it and defends the Arimaa challenge one day. Now that's wishful thinking :-)

Jean, Greg said that there is a chat session in the archives which has the conversation that lead to him naming the cat 'hanzack'. I don't remember the date though. Maybe Greg can fill in here.

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by Hippo on Apr 12^th, 2013, 6:50am

You must search start of 2012 year. I would guess february.

on 04/12/13 at 06:51:16, clyring wrote:

It was July 29, 2011 IIRC.

EDIT: A quick check confirms this. (It might be July 30 in some time zones, though.)

Oops ... time goes so quickly, sorry ...

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by clyring on Apr 12^th, 2013, 6:51am

It was July 29, 2011 IIRC.

EDIT: A quick check confirms this. (It might be July 30 in some time zones, though.)

Title: Re: Going to SuperNationals 2013
Post by chessandgo on Apr 13^th, 2013, 10:04am

Omg. I wasn't aware of this conversation, thanks clyring. When I think I used to feel bad about expressing my feelings about hanzack ... I guess I'll still try to refrain from complaining about WC '12.