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Topic: Move 16 (Read 4066 times) |
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Simon
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Fritzlein has moved quickly this time:
15s he5e hf5s cc7w rc8s
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Adanac
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Re: Move 16
« Reply #1 on: Jul 12th, 2009, 5:56am » |
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My first instinct is 16g Cb4e Rb1n Rb2n Rb3n to get some counter-play going in the northwest. I can't realistically see us getting an attack going anytime soon so I'm hoping that someone else has a more forcing plan.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 12th, 2009, 5:57am by Adanac » |
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Simon
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Re: Move 16
« Reply #2 on: Jul 12th, 2009, 9:57am » |
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If an aggressive move is what you're after, what about:
16g Dh4w cg5w Dg4n Dg5n
edit: on second thought, I don't like this since if we move the horse up (as I was thinking of as a response to him sending the horse back and cat forward), he can free the camel.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 12th, 2009, 10:10am by Simon » |
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mdk
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Re: Move 16
« Reply #3 on: Jul 12th, 2009, 10:22am » |
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on Jul 12th, 2009, 5:56am, Adanac wrote:| My first instinct is 16g Cb4e Rb1n Rb2n Rb3n to get some counter-play going in the northwest. I can't realistically see us getting an attack going anytime soon so I'm hoping that someone else has a more forcing plan. |
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So I've been lurking for a while in the spare minutes I have every now and then.
16g Cb4e Rb1n Rb2n Rb3n
16s he3e Re2n Re3w he3w
and it looks to me like gold could have problems as the camel is now blocked from easily threatening the silver horses.
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Adanac
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Re: Move 16
« Reply #4 on: Jul 12th, 2009, 10:57am » |
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on Jul 12th, 2009, 10:22am, mdk wrote:
So I've been lurking for a while in the spare minutes I have every now and then.
16g Cb4e Rb1n Rb2n Rb3n
16s he3e Re2n Re3w he3w
and it looks to me like gold could have problems as the camel is now blocked from easily threatening the silver horses.
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That's an interesting 16s move that I hadn't thought of. But I think we're still doing fine because the time that Fritzlein would use to block out our camel can be used to attack in the northwest:
17g Cc4n Hb6e rc7e Hc6n
17s dd6s Cc5s dd5w cb7s
18g Dd1w Dc1w Db1n Db2n
18s ed4n de6s de5s de4w
It's a bit complicated and our camel has definitely been compromised by the rabbit but I still think that we have some decent tactical opportunities here.
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| « Last Edit: Jul 12th, 2009, 10:57am by Adanac » |
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aaaa
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Re: Move 16
« Reply #5 on: Jul 12th, 2009, 7:44pm » |
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After several hours of analysis, my bot would want to play 16g Mc3e he3n Md3e Cd2n.
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Hannoskaj
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Re: Move 16
« Reply #6 on: Jul 13th, 2009, 12:34am » |
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on Jul 12th, 2009, 7:44pm, aaaa wrote:| After several hours of analysis, my bot would want to play 16g Mc3e he3n Md3e Cd2n. |
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That's clearly a very forcing possibility, that I had thought about. I am not sure I like our camel being very cramped after
16s cd3s Ed4s me3e Ed3e (almost forced).
One step I think worth considering is Hf2n with the strategical threat of pulling horse with camel and play Hf3e3 on next move; but I did not find how to use the other steps coherently.
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Adanac
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Re: Move 16
« Reply #7 on: Jul 13th, 2009, 4:18am » |
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on Jul 13th, 2009, 12:34am, Hannoskaj wrote:
That's clearly a very forcing possibility, that I had thought about. I am not sure I like our camel being very cramped after
16s cd3s Ed4s me3e Ed3e (almost forced).
One step I think worth considering is Hf2n with the strategical threat of pulling horse with camel and play Hf3e3 on next move; but I did not find how to use the other steps coherently. |
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But what if the elephant then pulls our horse to e4 on 18s and the silver horse returns to e3? Or Fritz could use mdk's idea of flipping our rabbit to d3 17s which would leave our horse on f3 with nowhere to go.
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jdb
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Re: Move 16
« Reply #8 on: Jul 13th, 2009, 10:39am » |
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ArimaaBuf defeated clueless about 200 times by taking the camel hostage. His plan was to attack the diagonal trap right away. So to that end,
16g Mc3n Mc4n Mc5n Cb4n
The follow up would be to advance a rabbit on the next move.
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arimaa_master
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Re: Move 16
« Reply #9 on: Jul 14th, 2009, 1:28am » |
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on Jul 13th, 2009, 10:39am, jdb wrote:ArimaaBuf defeated clueless about 200 times by taking the camel hostage. His plan was to attack the diagonal trap right away. So to that end,
16g Mc3n Mc4n Mc5n Cb4n
The follow up would be to advance a rabbit on the next move. |
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I like this move too
16g Mc3n Mc4n Mc5n Cb4n
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Adanac
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Re: Move 16
« Reply #10 on: Jul 14th, 2009, 3:58am » |
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on Jul 13th, 2009, 10:39am, jdb wrote:ArimaaBuf defeated clueless about 200 times by taking the camel hostage. His plan was to attack the diagonal trap right away. So to that end,
16g Mc3n Mc4n Mc5n Cb4n
The follow up would be to advance a rabbit on the next move. |
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Can you show a sample game? It doesn't seem obvious to me that we have a strong attack. For example,
16g Mc3n Mc4n Mc5n Cb4n
16s dd6n rb8e ed4n ed5n
17g Ra2n Ra3n Ra4n Mc6s
17s ed6s Mc5w ed5w dd7s
The final step of 17g was intended to avoid 17s de6e df6e ed6s Mc6e. But now I don't see how we can proceed. Unless we were supposed to sacrifice the camel?
16g Mc3n Mc4n Mc5n Cb4n
16s dd6n rb8e ed4n ed5n
17g Ra2n Ra3n Ra4n Cc4n
17s de6e df6e ed6s Mc6e
18g cb7n Hb6n rc7s rc6x Hb7e
18s Md6e ed5n cb8s cb7s
Did I miss a stronger attacking line?
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jdb
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Re: Move 16
« Reply #11 on: Jul 14th, 2009, 5:23am » |
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on Jul 14th, 2009, 3:58am, Adanac wrote:
Can you show a sample game? It doesn't seem obvious to me that we have a strong attack. For example,
16g Mc3n Mc4n Mc5n Cb4n
16s dd6n rb8e ed4n ed5n
17g Ra2n Ra3n Ra4n Mc6s
17s ed6s Mc5w ed5w dd7s
The final step of 17g was intended to avoid 17s de6e df6e ed6s Mc6e. But now I don't see how we can proceed. Unless we were supposed to sacrifice the camel?
16g Mc3n Mc4n Mc5n Cb4n
16s dd6n rb8e ed4n ed5n
17g Ra2n Ra3n Ra4n Cc4n
17s de6e df6e ed6s Mc6e
18g cb7n Hb6n rc7s rc6x Hb7e
18s Md6e ed5n cb8s cb7s
Did I miss a stronger attacking line? |
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I'll look thru ArimaaBuff's games tonight and try and find some games that are similar to the Mob game.
16g Mc3n Mc4n Mc5n Cb4n
16s dd6n rb8e ed4n ed5n
As you said, 17s de6e df6e ed6s Mc6e is threatened.
17g Cb5e Hb6s Mc6w rc7s
17g Ra2n Ra3n Mc6s rc7s
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 16
« Reply #12 on: Jul 15th, 2009, 7:15am » |
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It would be nice for my schedule if we voted beginning Thursday. Are we near consensus? I like pressing at c6, although I would prefer keeping the camel back to threaten the flood at f3. The problem is I don't see a good move to do this, so maybe that's a bad plan.
After 16g Mc3n Mc4n Mc5n Cb4n, how do we respond to 16s ed4n ed5w dd6s dd5s?
An alternate plan is to get the c2 horse onto a better square for the hostage, like e3 or f4. A move like 16g Mc3e Md3w he3w Hf2n is tactically risky, but works toward that goal.
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 16
« Reply #13 on: Jul 16th, 2009, 1:58am » |
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how about flipping the cb7 to b5?
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I don't understand the plans to attack c6 with the caMel, as Ron and Greg say when our camel is gone silver can defend c6 with his elephant as his horses have hold of f3 if the caMel is not there to dislodge them. It's our caMel that's going to be in trouble next.
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Seems to me that silver should not be able to stop us from quickly hostaging the cat around c3 after
16g Hb6w cb7s cb6s Ha6e
and would have to defend with e to d3 within a couple moves. That would be a large deadlock. Not sure who it'd be good for. Depends wether we can create quick counterplay on the wings or not. Maybe not ... The threat would be that silver manages to get a dominating position around c3 with his elephant while preventing our caMel from messing with the eastern horses. For instance:
16g Hb6w cb7s cb6s Ha6e
16s ed4s rb8s ra8e dd6s
17g Cb4w cb5s Hb6s Rh2n
next we will hostage the cb4 on b2 or a3, and silver might try to fight around c3 with ed against MH.
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16g Mc3e he3n Md3e Cd2n
16s cd3s Ed4s me3e Ed3e
brings a different kind of game, where we no longer have the advantage on the western wing, as silver will bring a horse there, it'll be h vs H. This said, it prevents silver's plan above to try to fight on the west with ed vs MH (not sure wether this plan is doable in the first place). Basically the two sides have similar position, the difference being that silver's camel is hostaged while ours is not (even though it's not very active on the hostage wing, at least it's got a bit of freedom). All in all, even though it's perplexing to bring the camel on the eastern wing, it might give us a small advantage. So if we find that all other options are bad (I wouldn't think they are), we still have that plan to fall on.
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We can also consider rotating our caMel right away towards e2. Not sure how to rate that either.
Seems to me that we have several options available, maybe calling for different games, maybe we want to take a few extra days even though our reserve is rather low (2d14h left for this move with 10d reserve)?
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| « Last Edit: Jul 16th, 2009, 2:02am by chessandgo » |
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Adanac
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Re: Move 16
« Reply #14 on: Jul 17th, 2009, 3:06am » |
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on Jul 16th, 2009, 1:58am, chessandgo wrote:| Seems to me that we have several options available, maybe calling for different games, maybe we want to take a few extra days even though our reserve is rather low (2d14h left for this move with 10d reserve)? |
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I think we can build up our reserves quickly when we have a self-evident move (such as a capture move or an obvious positional move like 12g) but we’re now at a critical juncture of the game where we should have a serious debate about our long-term objectives. The decision we make now will have a serious impact about the future direction of the game.
It would also be nice to know Fritzlein’s strategy. I have no clue what he’s planning to do next but I’ll guess that he wants to put a rabbit on f3 and place a dog on f4 to rotate his horse to the west side. So, I’m guessing something like this:
16s ed4s rf7s rf6s rf8s
17s hf4e rf5s rf4s hg4w
18s de6s de5s hf4n de4e
If so, then we do have the luxury of building pressure slowly on the west side because Karl’s plan is also very slow. I’m not a big fan of dragging pieces back to our c3 trap because I’ve personally had little success in games where all of the action is around my own home traps. I’d prefer to use the next few moves to build up pressure for an attack against the c6 trap. We can quickly bring in a cat and rabbit, and then eventually a second dog and a rabbit.
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