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Topic: Move 32 (Read 6538 times) |
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RonWeasley
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Silver moves: 31s Rf4n ee4e Rf5w ef4n
My first reaction is to capture the r on g4. e can't capture the H on g3 because the R on e5 would goal on the next move.
Another gold threat is dd6w Ee6w Ed6s Rf5n and the goal threat must be covered by the pieces around c6. This limits the advances silver can make toward c3.
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #1 on: Mar 8th, 2010, 8:51am » |
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yeah, capturing the rg4 looks good. After R to e6 silver can just push back the R to e5 with the dog, it does not look good for us.
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Sconibulus
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #2 on: Mar 8th, 2010, 9:49pm » |
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In response to our capture, I see silver horse east and elephant southeast, with the final step being either pulling the gold dog south, or pushing the rabbit to h3.
Both of these threats look handle-able the former by creating a goal threat, and the latter by capturing the f7 rabbit while pulling the dog back to defend the horse and f3 trap.
Unless anyone sees any devastating counterplay, I agree with the capture policy.
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Hannoskaj
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #3 on: Mar 9th, 2010, 12:26am » |
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If taking, what do we reply to
32s Hc5es re5w Cb5e (or Db4e, or x) ?
For example
33g Ee6ss Dg6n Re2n
33s Db4e Hd4s Ef5en
34g Ee4w Rd5e dc4w Ed4w
looks good, but I think that each and every move in this tense line is suboptimal.
EDIT: Db4e as fourth step for 32s is definitely stronger. It covers the c3 trap since as long as there is a d5 rabbit, pushing the horse would put it on d3. Immediate threats include the rock-solid 33s Dd6n rd5wsx Cb5e, 33s rd5w Hd4n rc5sx Dc4n, threat on g3 horse, and pressure on g6 dog.
EDIT2: Maybe then 33g Db3n Ca3e ra4s Re2e ?
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| « Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2010, 8:53am by Hannoskaj » |
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #4 on: Mar 9th, 2010, 1:52am » |
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on Mar 9th, 2010, 12:26am, Hannoskaj wrote:If taking, what do we reply to
32s Hc5es re5w Cb5e (or Db4e, or x) ?
For example
33g Ee6ss Dg6n Re2n
33s Db4w Hd4s Ef5ws
34g Ee4w Rd5e dc4w Ed4w
looks good, but I think that each and every move in this tense line is suboptimal.
EDIT: Db4e as fourth step for 32s is definitely stronger. It covers the c3 trap since as long as there is a d5 rabbit, pushing the horse would put it on d3. Immediate threats include the rock-solid 33s Dd6n rd5wsx Cb5e, 33s rd5w Hd4n rc5sx Dc4n, threat on g3 horse, and pressure on g6 dog.
EDIT2: Maybe then 33g Db3n Ca3e ra4s Re2e ? |
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Ef5es or Ef5en you mean I guess?
I don't think pulling the ra4 to a3 is often going to be good. This position is about goal threats, we don't want to give silver better goal threats by pulling any rabbit closer to the goal line. Espiecially when silver can get an e+d attack around the c3 trap as in your line.
I think that:
32g Hg3s rg4s rg3w rf3x Hg2n
32s hc5e hd5s Re5w db4e
33g dd6w Ee6w Rd5e Ed6e
is fine, silver could semi-repeat the position with:
33s hd4n hd5w Re5w dc6e
34g Rd2n Rd3n Rd5e Re2n
This looks good for us, the extra advanced Rabbits make this exchange excellent for gold, so I don't think silver can afford such a 33s move.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2010, 1:53am by chessandgo » |
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Manuel
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #5 on: Mar 9th, 2010, 4:27am » |
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What would you think of advancing the extra rabbits right now?:
32g Rd2nn Re2nn
This creates a goal threat with the e5 rabbit.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2010, 4:28am by Manuel » |
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #6 on: Mar 9th, 2010, 6:02am » |
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on Mar 9th, 2010, 4:27am, Manuel wrote:What would you think of advancing the extra rabbits right now?:
32g Rd2nn Re2nn
This creates a goal threat with the e5 rabbit. |
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So far all the lines I look at after this favor gold. There are lots of them. Goal threats through the east and center. I can't settle on silver's best defense. This move deserves serious consideration.
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Hannoskaj
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #7 on: Mar 9th, 2010, 8:51am » |
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on Mar 9th, 2010, 1:52am, chessandgo wrote:
Ef5es or Ef5en you mean I guess?
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Corrected.
Quote:
I don't think pulling the ra4 to a3 is often going to be good. This position is about goal threats, we don't want to give silver better goal threats by pulling any rabbit closer to the goal line. Espiecially when silver can get an e+d attack around the c3 trap as in your line.
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Well, the idea was that if Silver takes the d5 rabbit, either we immediately gain the a3 rabbit, or we can play Ed4 Dg7 posing huge problems to the Silver c4 dog. The Silver elephant is momentarily tied to f6, otherwise the f7 rabbit falls and our f2 rabbit is very fast.
If Silver does not take the d5 rabbit, I thought the b4 dog could support it. It's quite likely that immediate attack on c3 with horse and dog is too much to handle, though.
Quote:
I think that:
32g Hg3s rg4s rg3w rf3x Hg2n
32s hc5e hd5s Re5w db4e
33g dd6w Ee6w Rd5e Ed6e
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So we rely on the no-repeat-position rule. That always looks like last resort. Is that the best we could do? And can't Silver do better?
Quote:
What would you think of advancing the extra rabbits right now?:
32g Rd2nn Re2nn
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This move is much fun and looks good.
Just for fun: if Silver plays
32s Hc5ew re5w x (but not Rg4w or the like)
I think the elephant sacrifice
33g Ee6e Rd4nnn
works if Silver accepts it...
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Nombril
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #8 on: Mar 9th, 2010, 1:46pm » |
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My first thought had been the more boring:
32g: Dg6w Df6e rf7s x (maybe Re2n)
With
32g Rd2nn Re2nn
would
32s rb8eees
slow things down enough to give silver more options? I'm a bit nervous about having no other defenders near f3 if things get bogged down on the goal attack.
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Hippo
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #9 on: Mar 9th, 2010, 2:16pm » |
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Seems killer move heuristics ... 32s: Hc5ew re5w Db4e is mostly good response, but does not work well against Rnn Rnn move.
(33g: dd6w Ee6w Re4nn 33s: ef5n Re6s ef6w dc6n 34g Re5e Dg6we rf7s ... 33s: ef5wn Re6e dc6n 34g: Hg3n rg4w Hg4w rf4sx ...)
may be 32s ra7eeee (or instead rb8 to e7)
but freezing rf7 at 33g and replacing Ee6 with re5 on 34g would be devastating.
Yes, I like 32g Rd2nn Re2nn
[edit] Written in parallel with Nombril  [/edit]
silver could put horse or dog on d7/e7 as well
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| « Last Edit: Mar 9th, 2010, 2:33pm by Hippo » |
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aaaa
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #10 on: Mar 10th, 2010, 6:59pm » |
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Principal variation from bot:
32g Hg3e rg4s rg3w rf3x Hh3w
32s db4e hc5e hd5s Re5w
33g Re2n Hg3e Hh3w rh4s
33s hd4s hd3w Db3n hc3w
34g dd6w Ee6w Rd2n Ed6e
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Arimabuff
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #11 on: Mar 11th, 2010, 4:04am » |
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Just take the rabbit.
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Manuel
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #12 on: Mar 11th, 2010, 4:30am » |
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on Mar 11th, 2010, 4:04am, Arimabuff wrote:
Then silver will pull our rabbit:
32s hc5e hd5w Re5w rb8e
or attack our c3 trap:
32s hc5e hd5s Re5w db4e
followed by 33s hd4s hd3w Db3n hc3w
(see previous remarks of Hannoskaj and aaaa)
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #13 on: Mar 11th, 2010, 6:13am » |
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on Mar 10th, 2010, 6:59pm, aaaa wrote:Principal variation from bot:
32g Hg3e rg4s rg3w rf3x Hh3w
32s db4e hc5e hd5s Re5w
33g Re2n Hg3e Hh3w rh4s
33s hd4s hd3w Db3n hc3w
34g dd6w Ee6w Rd2n Ed6e |
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An alternative 33g dd6n Ee6w Rd5e Dg6n leads to sharp play where I so far believe silver stops the goal threat and gold retains slight advantage. But I don't recommend inviting sharp positions against Fritzlein if we don't have to.
I think advancing the two rabbits is safer. It is a more sustained goal threat. It blocks the silver horse from b3 and keeps c3 safer. It puts pieces closer to f3 making it safer too. All those rabbits touching each other is proving to be very flexible.
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Nombril
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Re: Move 32
« Reply #14 on: Mar 11th, 2010, 7:07am » |
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I'm now supporting 32g Rd2nn Re2nn. I don't see anyway to stop the goal attack without committing e, h, and one d to the defense. If that many pieces get pulled back to f6 defense, then we have time to take rabbits at f3.
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