Author |
Topic: 2011 Arimaa Events Schedule (Read 4133 times) |
|
omar
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2
Gender: 
Posts: 1003
|
 |
2011 Arimaa Events Schedule
« on: Oct 1st, 2010, 1:16am » |
 Quote  Modify
|
The schedule for the 2011 Arimaa events is now available.
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/wc/2011/sch.html
For the most part the events will be very similar to last years.
One thing that will be different is with the spectator contest. This year predictions can be made during the game. Of course an earlier prediction wins when there is a tie. It adds a benefit to being present at the game; which hopefully will result in a bigger turn out. But last year 6 of the 16 games were won by exact predictions made before the start of the game, so there will still be some games won by predicting early and not changing the prediction during the game.
Instead of taking a deposit for the penalty and returning it later, this year the penalty fee will be collected later only if necessary (i.e. someone violates the tournament rules).
Another change this year is that I am requesting a $10 contribution towards the prize fund to register for an event. 100% of the prize fund will be distributed as prizes for the players.
I still need to decide if we should change some of the benchmark bots used in the computer championship. For now I just kept the bots that were used last year.
|
|
 IP Logged |
|
|
|
rbarreira
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #1621
Gender:
Posts: 605
|
|
Re: 2011 Arimaa Events Schedule
« Reply #1 on: Oct 1st, 2010, 4:27am » |
Quote Modify
|
Good to see the schedule, thanks!
Regarding the benchmark bots, it seems that last year Marwin practically did a clean sweep of all the bots in the qualification, so maybe it's good to have some stronger ones to provide more differentiation at the top.
Maybe one or two of the top 2010 blitz/fast bots?
|
| « Last Edit: Oct 1st, 2010, 4:36am by rbarreira » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Janzert
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #247
Gender:
Posts: 1016
|
|
Re: 2011 Arimaa Events Schedule
« Reply #2 on: Oct 3rd, 2010, 8:16pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Might want to consider that blitz/fast bots are only comparatively stronger against humans, against other bots there isn't going to any distinct advantage just variance from pair to pair. So the advantage to using the fast time controls is a shorter game time but the disadvantage is that the results may be further from the 2 minute time control used in the championship. Regardless of timecontrol though adding some newer stronger bots to the benchmark would certainly be a good thing.
Janzert
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
rbarreira
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #1621
Gender:
Posts: 605
|
|
Re: 2011 Arimaa Events Schedule
« Reply #3 on: Oct 4th, 2010, 3:24am » |
Quote Modify
|
You're right, the only reason I mentioned fast/blitz bots is that omar would probably not want to have bots playing many (potentially simultaneous) games with the CC bots which can cause a high server load for a few hours.
BTW I think I have seen two problems with the list of benchmark bots:
1- It says OpFor2019Fast (would be fun if we had the 2019 version  )
2- GnoBot2009Blitz is in the list, I recall that last year it was eliminated due to some problems running that bot.
|
| « Last Edit: Oct 4th, 2010, 3:25am by rbarreira » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
omar
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2
Gender:
Posts: 1003
|
|
Re: 2011 Arimaa Events Schedule
« Reply #4 on: Oct 7th, 2010, 1:35am » |
Quote Modify
|
Thanks for the input guys. I've added OpFor2010Fast and Marwin2010Blitz to the list. Kept Clueless2009Blitz since Clueless2010Blitz is disabled.
@Janzert, another advantage of the blitz bots is that they move faster and so tend to put less load on the server.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
novacat
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #751
Gender:
Posts: 119
|
|
Re: 2011 Arimaa Events Schedule
« Reply #5 on: Oct 7th, 2010, 2:15am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Oct 1st, 2010, 1:16am, omar wrote:
Instead of taking a deposit for the penalty and returning it later, this year the penalty fee will be collected later only if necessary (i.e. someone violates the tournament rules).
|
|
This seems difficult to enforce and I expect a person who has violated tournament rules will likely not want to pay the penalty. While I appreciate the intent of this action, I think it may save you some trouble later if everyone gives a deposit up front.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
omar
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2
Gender:
Posts: 1003
|
|
Re: 2011 Arimaa Events Schedule
« Reply #6 on: Oct 7th, 2010, 7:23am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Oct 7th, 2010, 2:15am, novacat wrote:
This seems difficult to enforce and I expect a person who has violated tournament rules will likely not want to pay the penalty. While I appreciate the intent of this action, I think it may save you some trouble later if everyone gives a deposit up front. |
|
I forgot to mention that the reason I decided to do it this way was because collecting the deposits and returning them was getting to be a bit of a chore. I'll give this a try this year and see how it works out. If someone doesn't pay the penalty then they would not be able to sign up next year.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
|
|
Re: 2011 Arimaa Events Schedule
« Reply #7 on: Oct 8th, 2010, 12:16am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Oct 1st, 2010, 1:16am, omar wrote:| One thing that will be different is with the spectator contest. This year predictions can be made during the game. Of course an earlier prediction wins when there is a tie. It adds a benefit to being present at the game; which hopefully will result in a bigger turn out. But last year 6 of the 16 games were won by exact predictions made before the start of the game, so there will still be some games won by predicting early and not changing the prediction during the game. |
|
That's an interesting experiment. By the end of the game, no one will be left predicting too low, and many people will be predicting correctly. Only an exact answer can win. The question now is not how close to correct people will need to be, but how far in advance they need to be exactly correct.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
|
|
Re: 2011 Arimaa Events Schedule
« Reply #8 on: Oct 8th, 2010, 12:50am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Oct 7th, 2010, 7:23am, omar wrote:| I forgot to mention that the reason I decided to do it this way was because collecting the deposits and returning them was getting to be a bit of a chore. I'll give this a try this year and see how it works out. If someone doesn't pay the penalty then they would not be able to sign up next year. |
|
The people who are most likely to forfeit and/or quit are precisely the people who are least likely to be deterred by the threat of not being able to play the following year. Recall that you originally wanted the World Championship tournament to be free, but you instituted a fee after the debacle of 2004 where five of eighteen entrants didn't show up for their first game. Four of those five didn't come back for 2005 anyway, so at most one of them could have been deterred by a retroactive penalty.
I totally understand the logic that collecting $10 from everyone and returning $10 to everyone that plays is much more hassle than it is worth to end up with an extra $10 or $20 in your pocket that you might never get otherwise. The money is small potatoes compared to the time. But how much time have you really saved, since you are still paying out prize money to every participant anyway? And in any case the money/time tradeoff is missing the main point.
My main concern is whether an open tournament that anyone can sign up for without any entry fee will result in several people signing up but not showing up. How will you handle it if someone brand new to the server creates an account, plays six games against the bot ladder, says, "I love Arimaa!!!", signs up for the World Championship two months in advance, and then doesn't play another game between then and the start of the tournament? If there were a $20 entry fee, you could require payment or remove him from the pairings, but with no entry fee you are obliged to pair him for the first round despite the miniscule probability that he will actually play.
Dropouts are no fun for the players that do show up, and it creates unfairness in strength of schedule and Swiss tiebreakers. I have a feeling that the 2010 tournament, in which all sixteen players played all five of their games, has given you amnesia about the downside of quitters and no-shows. It's not about the $10 here or there, it is about the quality of a free tournament versus the quality of a "serious" tournament with an entry fee (refundable or not).
As usual, that's just my $0.02. We'll see what comes of your experiment to restructure the fees/prizes/penalties. It's a tradition for me to be skeptical, and for you to try something new anyway. 
|
| « Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2010, 12:51am by Fritzlein » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
|
|
Re: 2011 Arimaa Events Schedule
« Reply #9 on: Oct 8th, 2010, 1:01am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Oct 7th, 2010, 1:35am, omar wrote:| Thanks for the input guys. I've added OpFor2010Fast and Marwin2010Blitz to the list. Kept Clueless2009Blitz since Clueless2010Blitz is disabled. |
|
Recall that last year we had eight entrants that aced the bottom four bots. That means the bottom four provided no discrimination. Based on that experience, we should at least get rid of the bottom two bots (ArimaaScoreP1 and Loc2007P1), replacing them with two more blitz bots, for example Gnobot2005Blitz and Loc2007Blitz.
Every year we should adjust the pool so that it discriminates throughout the eight best entrants, providing a good seeding from top to bottom.
|
| « Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2010, 1:01am by Fritzlein » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
|
|
Re: 2011 Arimaa Events Schedule
« Reply #10 on: Oct 8th, 2010, 1:06am » |
Quote Modify
|
It strikes me as odd that people who enter the Postal Mixer are asked to contribute to the prize fund when there are no prizes for the Postal Mixer. In fact, the three events funded by the prize fund might all be over when people are still registering for the Postal Mixer.
|
| « Last Edit: Oct 8th, 2010, 1:08am by Fritzlein » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
omar
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2
Gender:
Posts: 1003
|
|
Re: 2011 Arimaa Events Schedule
« Reply #11 on: Oct 9th, 2010, 11:43am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Oct 8th, 2010, 12:50am, Fritzlein wrote:
The people who are most likely to forfeit and/or quit are precisely the people who are least likely to be deterred by the threat of not being able to play the following year. Recall that you originally wanted the World Championship tournament to be free, but you instituted a fee after the debacle of 2004 where five of eighteen entrants didn't show up for their first game. Four of those five didn't come back for 2005 anyway, so at most one of them could have been deterred by a retroactive penalty.
|
|
True, but I don't think losing the small deposit amount was the deterrent that prevented players from quitting in the middle of the tournament. I think the real deterrent was having to send in the deposit amount in the first place. I think that helped make sure more serious players signed up. When it is completely free to sign up and there is no penalty for quitting I think we will see the type of problem we saw in 2004. This year there is the requirement of contributing at least $10 to the prize fund to sign up. So hopefully that will help to make sure more serious players are signing up. A non-serious player could still sign up and quit in the middle of the tournament, but at least $10 will have gone to the prize fund and there is still the penalty the player incurs. So I think it's worth trying this out this year.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
omar
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2
Gender:
Posts: 1003
|
|
Re: 2011 Arimaa Events Schedule
« Reply #12 on: Oct 9th, 2010, 11:46am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Oct 8th, 2010, 1:01am, Fritzlein wrote:
Recall that last year we had eight entrants that aced the bottom four bots. That means the bottom four provided no discrimination. Based on that experience, we should at least get rid of the bottom two bots (ArimaaScoreP1 and Loc2007P1), replacing them with two more blitz bots, for example Gnobot2005Blitz and Loc2007Blitz.
Every year we should adjust the pool so that it discriminates throughout the eight best entrants, providing a good seeding from top to bottom.
|
|
Good idea. Any suggestions for the bots to replace them with.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
rbarreira
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #1621
Gender:
Posts: 605
|
|
Re: 2011 Arimaa Events Schedule
« Reply #13 on: Oct 9th, 2010, 12:41pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Oct 9th, 2010, 11:46am, omar wrote:
Good idea. Any suggestions for the bots to replace them with.
|
|
Fritz said Gnobot2005Blitz and Loc2007Blitz, which I guess would make sense if we want to avoid having two bots from the same developer (eliminating a lot of potential P1/P2 alternatives).
I was going to say Sharp2008P2, but that one would probably also get swept by all the qualifying bots.
|
| « Last Edit: Oct 9th, 2010, 12:46pm by rbarreira » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
omar
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2
Gender:
Posts: 1003
|
|
Re: 2011 Arimaa Events Schedule
« Reply #14 on: Oct 9th, 2010, 12:49pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Oct 8th, 2010, 1:06am, Fritzlein wrote:| It strikes me as odd that people who enter the Postal Mixer are asked to contribute to the prize fund when there are no prizes for the Postal Mixer. In fact, the three events funded by the prize fund might all be over when people are still registering for the Postal Mixer. |
|
I think most people are playing the postal mixer just for fun rather than any prizes. In the past there was no registration fee for this event. This year there is essentially a $10 registration fee. However, I am going to use all of the registration fee towards the prize fund. My hope is that if at least one of the Arimaa events has a larger prize fund it will help attract more serious abstract strategy gamers to Arimaa or at least get them to notice it. Maybe these gamers play for the prestige and not the money, but still having a large prize fund helps to show that the Arimaa community is serious about the world championship event. As more strong players are attracted to it, winning it becomes more and more prestigious.
This year I am going to allow contributions to the prize fund until the end of April which is usually when I distribute the prizes. The registration for the postal mixer end on April 1st.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
|
Home
Help
Search
Members
Login
Register
Reply
Notify of replies
Send Topic
Print