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Topic: Big man vs. machine match in Go tomorrow (Read 12902 times) |
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Fritzlein
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Big man vs. machine match in Go tomorrow
« on: Mar 20th, 2014, 10:42am » |
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It is really hard to find English language news about this, but tomorrow in Japan a 9dan professional will play against the top Go computers Zen and CrazyStone. (CrazyStone is developed by Remi Coulom, inventor of WHR.) Last year four stones was about the right handicap; I wonder whether that gets cut to three stones this year.
http://entcog.c.ooco.jp/entcog/densei/eng/densei-2nd.html
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| « Last Edit: Mar 20th, 2014, 10:43am by Fritzlein » |
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chessandgo
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Re: Big man vs. machine match in Go tomorrow
« Reply #1 on: Mar 20th, 2014, 5:05pm » |
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Wow, 3 or 4 stones to a 9p? That has to be very close to top amateur already!
Also, I lov ethe "written by Yoshio Ishida". Is it a namesake, or is the guy who writes about the event actually a bigger name than the guy who plays it? 
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Fritzlein
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Re: Big man vs. machine match in Go tomorrow
« Reply #2 on: Mar 20th, 2014, 10:17pm » |
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Well, it is a fast time control, which favors the computer, but yes, I gather that the top programs when running on big clusters are now 6 dan amateur. I would not have predicted the progress would come so fast.
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Arimabuff
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Re: Big man vs. machine match in Go tomorrow
« Reply #5 on: Mar 21st, 2014, 9:58am » |
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Do we know if there's a lot of AI involved (like structure recognition) or if it's just an ingenious way of cutting down the tree of possibilities.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 21st, 2014, 9:59am by Arimabuff » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: Big man vs. machine match in Go tomorrow
« Reply #6 on: Mar 21st, 2014, 1:02pm » |
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Thanks for the link, Janzert. Apparently four stones was the right handicap. It is interesting that both programs lost a significant number of points in the endgame. I am so used to Arimaa bots excelling in the endgame that I forget how chess bots were always weakest in the endgame (up to tablebases) and expect it to be the same for every game. I guess CrazyStone has the excuse of "playing safe" to insure the win, which I can understand based on my Arimaa style, but it sounds like Zen gave away a won game in the endgame.
It would be a huge coup for Arimaa if humans can hold out longer against computers than they do in Go, but the odds of that happening are pretty heavily against us unless we humans start seriously improving at Arimaa.
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hyperpape
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Re: Big man vs. machine match in Go tomorrow
« Reply #7 on: Mar 21st, 2014, 6:57pm » |
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Since the top bots use Monte Carlo methods, they will squander points in endgame if they're sufficiently far ahead: playing defensive moves that lose points will look good because there are certain possibilities where those weaknesses are exploited.
In a tight game, bots play very good endgame, though I'm not sure if it's professional level. Endgame is also a flexible concept in Go. It can either mean the early portions, where professionals cannot perfectly calculate to the more settled portions where it's remarkable for them to lose even a point. So whether Zen's endgame performance against Yoda was just a little weak, or rather bad is hard to tell from the report.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 21st, 2014, 6:59pm by hyperpape » |
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omar
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Re: Big man vs. machine match in Go tomorrow
« Reply #8 on: Jun 5th, 2014, 9:40am » |
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Here is an article from Wired magazine that covers this match:
http://www.wired.com/2014/05/the-world-of-computer-go/
The author had done an hour long phone interview with me and had mentioned Arimaa in the original article. When he emailed me the link to the article he said the editor cut out the Arimaa material.
It's an excellent article with in-depth coverage of the event and lots of background material on computer Go.
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christianF
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Re: Big man vs. machine match in Go tomorrow
« Reply #9 on: Jun 5th, 2014, 3:29pm » |
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on Jun 5th, 2014, 9:40am, omar wrote:
Thanks for posting it - I fully agree and I've put the link on our homepage under the "On programmability" header.
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