Author |
Topic: Arimaa puzzles (Read 4771 times) |
|
UruramTururam
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2537
Gender: 
Posts: 319
|
 |
Arimaa puzzles
« on: Jul 4th, 2007, 6:51am » |
 Quote  Modify
|
Hello all, I am Ururam Tururam and I'm pretty new here.
You can guess I like the game of Arimaa (hey, if I didn't why should I be here?). Now I learn to play (being beaten by bots now and then) and try solve the Arimaa puzzles published on the rules sub-page. I've even tried to make a simple puzzle myself. Here it goes:
- d H - - - r r
- c E h - - r R
R m x e - x r D
R d r - R - - -
- C - - - R - -
- - x - - x - -
- r M - - r - -
- - - - c R - -
(I hope the diagram is readable...)
Gold to move, all 4 moves remain. We assume optimal moves are made.
Who is going to win (and how)?
Well that's it.
LMK if you like it at all...
|
|
 IP Logged |
Caffa et bucella per attactionem corporum venit ad stomachum meum.
BGG Arimaa badges - get your own one!
|
|
|
RonWeasley
Forum Guru
Harry's friend (Arimaa player #441)
Gender:
Posts: 882
|
|
Re: Arimaa puzzles
« Reply #1 on: Jul 4th, 2007, 7:40am » |
Quote Modify
|
I like puzzles, including this one. Thanx!
I spent some time looking at the imminent goal threats from the silver rabbits on the second rank. But the solution is elsewhere.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
|
|
Re: Arimaa puzzles
« Reply #2 on: Jul 4th, 2007, 9:26am » |
Quote Modify
|
Thank you for that fine puzzle! Have you seen the puzzles on the Arimaa Wiki? If you don't mind, I will add your puzzle to the collection.
|
| « Last Edit: Jul 4th, 2007, 9:27am by Fritzlein » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
UruramTururam
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2537
Gender:
Posts: 319
|
|
Re: Arimaa puzzles
« Reply #3 on: Jul 4th, 2007, 2:30pm » |
Quote Modify
|
Thanks Fritzlein. You can surely add it if you think it's OK (I think so but it's obvious).
Btw the wiki puzzle creator is a nice tool, I'll use it next time. In fact creating a new puzzle category "who is going to win" may be a good idea if I manage to create a few more riddles like this one...
|
|
IP Logged |
Caffa et bucella per attactionem corporum venit ad stomachum meum.
BGG Arimaa badges - get your own one!
|
|
|
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
|
|
Re: Arimaa puzzles
« Reply #4 on: Jul 4th, 2007, 8:16pm » |
Quote Modify
|
I have added your puzzle to the Twiki. It is quite nice, because Gold has rabbits left, right, and center, so it isn't clear where one's attention should be focused. Also it seems at first that Gold might be able to defend, although it isn't the case. Finally, the solving move is not obvious, for a one-mover. I'm impressed at such a good puzzle on your first try.
I put it in a new Who Will Win? section. It is good practice to have have puzzles like "capture a piece in two" or "goal in three", but such puzzles give the solver an unfair advantage of knowing what has to be done. In actual games nobody is kind enough to tell you that you have a forced goal in two moves, so you have to look for the best move without knowing what form it will take. I hope someday there will also be some puzzles of the form "What is the best move?", where you don't know if either side can force goal, capture material, or what. Rather than trying to figure out who is winning, you just have to find the best move, exactly as in a real game.
|
| « Last Edit: Jul 4th, 2007, 8:16pm by Fritzlein » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
UruramTururam
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2537
Gender:
Posts: 319
|
|
Re: Arimaa puzzles
« Reply #5 on: Jul 5th, 2007, 4:27am » |
Quote Modify
|
Oh, silly me... 
I've checked an email today first and found a letter from Omar encouraging me to use the form he linked to enter the puzzle. I did it... and realized that there is already one. So now we have two identical ones on the puzzles subpage. I've written back to Omar that such a mistake has occurred so be careful when deleting the additional one not to let them both disappear.
Sorry for the mess.
(I'm going back to challenge Clueless2006P1 - I'm still unable to beat it. Perhaps I'm even more clueless. Like in Chess where I was quite a poor player but quite a good problem composer.)
|
|
IP Logged |
Caffa et bucella per attactionem corporum venit ad stomachum meum.
BGG Arimaa badges - get your own one!
|
|
|
mdk
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2309
Gender:
Posts: 108
|
|
Re: Arimaa puzzles
« Reply #6 on: Jul 5th, 2007, 10:17am » |
Quote Modify
|
Thanks for the new puzzle. It's very good for a 1 move puzzle especially for a first puzzle.
If you are having trouble beating clueless you might want to read some of the strategy articles on the wiki or go back through some old games of some of the best players against this bot and others.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
|
|
Re: Arimaa puzzles
« Reply #7 on: Jul 5th, 2007, 10:56am » |
Quote Modify
|
on Jul 5th, 2007, 4:27am, UruramTururam wrote:So now we have two identical ones on the puzzles subpage. I've written back to Omar that such a mistake has occurred so be careful when deleting the additional one not to let them both disappear.
Sorry for the mess.
|
|
Not a problem. I just changed the link from the Wiki page to be p23 instead of p22, so it is your incarnation of the puzzle that is linked instead of mine. I think deleting p22 is more trouble than it's worth; we can just let it languish unlinked.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
UruramTururam
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2537
Gender:
Posts: 319
|
|
Re: Arimaa puzzles
« Reply #8 on: Jul 5th, 2007, 2:16pm » |
Quote Modify
|
on Jul 5th, 2007, 10:17am, mdk wrote:| If you are having trouble beating clueless you might want to read some of the strategy articles on the wiki or go back through some old games of some of the best players against this bot and others. |
|
That's what I do.  I think it will take me some time but I have no need to hurry...
on Jul 5th, 2007, 10:56am, Fritzlein wrote:| I just changed the link from the Wiki page to be p23 instead of p22, so it is your incarnation of the puzzle that is linked instead of mine. I think deleting p22 is more trouble than it's worth; we can just let it languish unlinked. |
|
There is still a doublet here: http://arimaa.com/arimaa/puzzles/list.cgi but I hope Omar will take care of this...
Meanwhile I've made another one. But this time I am not sure myself if I covered all the possibilities. The theme is as before - who is going to win this game in a forced way. Yet now I'd like it to be discussed here before I post it on the puzzles page: maybe I was wrong somewhere in this composition.
Position notation:
Ra5 Ra6 Rb5 Cb8 Cc2 Ec5 Rc6 Mc7 Re2 Df1 Rg2 Hg5 Dh3
ea7 rb2 rb6 rb7 rc4 hc8 rd2 md5 dd7 ce1 rf2 hf3 df5 rg6 ch2 rh4
Diagram:
- C h - - - - -
e r M d - - - -
R r R - - x r -
R R E m - d H -
- - r - - - - r
- - x - - h - D
- r C r R r R c
- - - - c D - -
Description: Gold tried to corner silver elephant and almost succeeded to do that sacrificing a horse and two rabbits. Silver (still having all the pieces!) launched a massive counterattack having now a number of rabbits a step from the goal. If it were silver turn - they would win by simple cf3w ce3w re2s. But now it's gold turn. Who will win?
(And no, now it is not a one-move puzzle!)
|
| « Last Edit: Jul 5th, 2007, 2:19pm by UruramTururam » |
IP Logged |
Caffa et bucella per attactionem corporum venit ad stomachum meum.
BGG Arimaa badges - get your own one!
|
|
|
mdk
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2309
Gender:
Posts: 108
|
|
Re: Arimaa puzzles
« Reply #9 on: Jul 5th, 2007, 3:50pm » |
Quote Modify
|
well my first thought for this new puzzle is:
2w Df1e rf2s hf3x rf1n Dg1w
the first response i can come up with is:
2b ea7n rb7w Cb8s ea8e
anything else seems to allow gold to slowly pick off pieces while silver's pieces remain trapped in the corner and gold would continue on to win. With this move however the position seems more complex. I still believe that gold can force a win, however, I am actually not sure. Perhaps you did not see my 2b or perhaps I have the wrong 2w. Or perhaps there is some line after these moves that I am missing.
The only other response I could come up with is:
2w rc4s rc3x Ec5s Ec4e Ed4s.
This as well seems to stop an immediate goal and I believe also would allow gold to eventually win with proper play. Based on the composition of the puzzle, however, I believe that my initial suggestion is the intended one.
I think my lack of sleep after staying up until 4am with friends for the 4th of july and then waking up at 7am this morning is preventing me from seeing things clearly. Thanks again for another interesting puzzle though.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
UruramTururam
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2537
Gender:
Posts: 319
|
|
Re: Arimaa puzzles
« Reply #10 on: Jul 5th, 2007, 4:23pm » |
Quote Modify
|
OK, so there is something I overlooked.
I was nearly sure about this as this position is quite complex.
Of course, the initial move should be as suggested, yet I have to tune the rest. The position in the NW corner is quite hard to setup properly...
|
|
IP Logged |
Caffa et bucella per attactionem corporum venit ad stomachum meum.
BGG Arimaa badges - get your own one!
|
|
|
mdk
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2309
Gender:
Posts: 108
|
|
Re: Arimaa puzzles
« Reply #11 on: Jul 5th, 2007, 9:29pm » |
Quote Modify
|
yeah at first i didnt think the elephant was going to be able to escape but then i played around with it some and realized that it could.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
UruramTururam
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2537
Gender:
Posts: 319
|
|
Re: Arimaa puzzles
« Reply #12 on: Jul 10th, 2007, 8:05am » |
Quote Modify
|
Ok, I've made a few changes. This is how the puzzle looks now:
- r r D c - - -
e R M h - - - -
R r R - - x - -
C R E m - - - -
r - r - - - - d
- - x - - h - H
- r C r R r R d
- - - - c D - -
Notation:
Ec5 Mc7 Hh3 Dd8 Df1 Ca5 Cc2 Ra6 Rb5 Rb7 Rc6 Re2 Rg2
ea7 md5 hd7 hf3 dh2 dh4 ce1 ce8 ra4 rb2 rb6 rb8 rc4 rc8 rd2 rf2
I hope it's now better.
After obvious horse capture silver should be doomed. Or is there a way silver can avoid immobilizing (or goal on a8)?...
|
| « Last Edit: Jul 10th, 2007, 8:10am by UruramTururam » |
IP Logged |
Caffa et bucella per attactionem corporum venit ad stomachum meum.
BGG Arimaa badges - get your own one!
|
|
|
mdk
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2309
Gender:
Posts: 108
|
|
Re: Arimaa puzzles
« Reply #13 on: Jul 10th, 2007, 10:14am » |
Quote Modify
|
This looks to be right now. Either goal in 3 or immobilization in 2, depending on silver's move.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
|
|
Re: Arimaa puzzles
« Reply #14 on: Jul 30th, 2007, 4:46pm » |
Quote Modify
|
This is a very cute puzzle. I know that the rules say the game continues if an opposing rabbit is dislodged onto and off of the goal line, but this has always seemed like a rule that exists for completeness sake, and not because anyone would ever make such a move. It is amusing to have a position in which the only winning move brings an opposing rabbit temporarily to goal.
UruramTururam, I hope your composition of Arimaa puzzles doesn't end with this one!
|
| « Last Edit: Jul 30th, 2007, 4:50pm by Fritzlein » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
|
Home
Help
Search
Members
Login
Register
Reply
Notify of replies
Send Topic
Print