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Topic: Endgame Puzzle 5 (Read 1945 times) |
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Hippo
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 5
« Reply #1 on: Apr 2nd, 2011, 2:51am » |
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Rh4, Ca5 and gold capures faster. If silver steps ra5, Ca4 and again gold is faster, but the game is one turn prolonnged.
That one seems to be the easiest.
But with rb6?
Oh there is no differece as Ca5 prevents rabbit escape. And Ca2 could be played instead the Rh4 step.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 2nd, 2011, 3:23am by Hippo » |
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jdb
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 5
« Reply #2 on: Apr 2nd, 2011, 8:29am » |
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Hippo, I do not understand your solution. Could you please explain it again?
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chessandgo
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 5
« Reply #3 on: Apr 2nd, 2011, 10:58am » |
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I think Hippo means (with spoiler):
2g Ra3neee, and on any other move than 2s ra6seee, play 3g Rd4eeee, and then if silver defends against the goal play 4g Ca1nnnn, and I agree that it wins for gold. However, 2g Ra3neee 2s ra6seee seems very tense. I can't resist from looking at 3g Ca1neee da8seee, and silver's rabbit can simply follow gold's rabbit if it slides along the 4th row, and advancing the Rabbit to a5 on 4g doesn't seem to work.
I got excited with 3g Ca1nee Rd4e, as there might be a very cute win after silver's mirror answer 3s da8see rd5e 4g Re4een Cc2e 4s dc7eeee 5g Cd2enn (no 4th step, adding a Rg5e step loses to 5s dg7ssw Rh5w) 5s dg7s 6g re5nw Ce4nn. Unfortunately, 3g Ca1nee Rd4e 3s da8seee seems to defend, as Gold can only transpose in the losing variation, not in the winning one, since silver's dog can reach f5 in just 4 steps.
Well, I think 2g Ra3neee is the only viable move for Gold, and 3g Ca1nee Rd4e or 3g Ca1neee are the only 2 alternatives for 3g. For the moment I'm betting on silver, but I'm bound to have missed a lot of things.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 2nd, 2011, 11:20am by chessandgo » |
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Hippo
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 5
« Reply #4 on: Apr 2nd, 2011, 11:03am » |
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OK, I have again missed the correct defense  OK it is not as easy as I have expected .
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| « Last Edit: Apr 2nd, 2011, 11:04am by Hippo » |
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jdb
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 5
« Reply #5 on: Apr 2nd, 2011, 12:24pm » |
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@chessandgo
Nice analysis, but incorrect.
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UruramTururam
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 5
« Reply #6 on: Apr 2nd, 2011, 12:59pm » |
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It seems to me that it's a zugzwang position: the second to move wins...
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Caffa et bucella per attactionem corporum venit ad stomachum meum.
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chessandgo
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 5
« Reply #7 on: Apr 2nd, 2011, 3:44pm » |
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on Apr 2nd, 2011, 12:24pm, jdb wrote:@chessandgo
Nice analysis, but incorrect. |
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Hehe, thanks. I wish I knew in which way it is incorrect
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Fritzlein
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 5
« Reply #8 on: Apr 2nd, 2011, 11:35pm » |
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I agree with all of chessandgo's analysis except the conclusion. Here's why (spoiler):
Thanks for all the analysis, Jean. I couldn't find the flaw in it.
To my eyes, Silver starts with the threat of 2s d->b5, which would be crushing. The gold rabbit has to get away from the dog for Gold to have any hopes. And it is hopeful for Gold, as you and Hippo noted, that the silver dog can't afford to defend the gold rabbit, because then the gold cat captures the silver rabbit before the silver dog captures the gold rabbit. Tempo trumps strength in that kind of asymmetry.
So 2g R->d4 seems like the best hope. Yet I can't punch holes in your analysis that the mirror move 2s r->d5 defends it. If the rabbits stalemate each other, the gold cat is necessary to break the deadlock, but the silver dog seems to arrive just in time to pwn the gold cat.
But wait. What about 2g R->c4, C->a2? The gold rabbit has still emerged from under the threat of 2s d->b5. Just as before, it seems the silver dog can't defend against the gold rabbit, so the Silver rabbit must take on the defense. But 2s r->c5 to mirror rabbits is not stalemate, even giving the silver dog a free step, because the silver rabbit doesn't indirectly threaten goal from c5. So it seems 2s r->d5 would be forced.
In that case, we already know some losing lines for Gold, but we have a new option of 3g C->d3 that looks promising. Suddenly the silver rabbit is in danger of capture. Strategically it must be bad for the silver rabbit to run east; that creates the piece alignment that Gold wants after 3s r->h5 4g C->g4, and tactically, too, this seems to work out against Silver.
If the silver rabbit can't run, then the Silver dog must centralize. But it seems 3s d->b5 loses to 4g R->e5, C->d4, whereas 3s d->d7 loses to 4g R->a5, C->d4.
Obviously this is a very loose analysis, but if I have the main line right, it may be possible to dot the i's and cross the t's.
But probably I missed something key... 
P.S. For spoilers on this parity, use "color=lightsteelblue" rather than "color=lightblue". Or to get an even more perfect match, according to my color picker, "color=#AFC6DB", if you can remember it.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 3rd, 2011, 1:17am by Fritzlein » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 5
« Reply #9 on: Apr 2nd, 2011, 11:43pm » |
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For spoilers on this parity, it appears "color=ghostwhite" works better than "color=white", and "color=#F8F8F8" is the exact match according to my color picker. What do you think?
Testing spoilers; can you see this? This is the color #F8F8F8, so if you can't see it, then #F8F8F8 is for you.
Testing spoilers; can you see this? This is the color ghostwhite, so if you can't see it, then ghostwhite is for you.
Testing spoilers; can you see this? This is the color white, so if you can't see it, then white is for you.
Also, nobody may delete a post from early in the thread, as it would uncloak all spoilers by changing parity, and nobody may quote a spoiler from either parity.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 3rd, 2011, 12:26am by Fritzlein » |
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Eltripas
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[quote author=Fritzlein link=bRe: Endgame Puzzle 5
« Reply #10 on: Apr 3rd, 2011, 12:33am » |
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on Apr 2nd, 2011, 11:43pm, Fritzlein wrote:For spoilers on this parity, it appears "color=ghostwhite" works better than "color=white", and "color=#F8F8F8" is the exact match according to my color picker. What do you think?
Testing spoilers; can you see this? This is the color #F8F8F8, so if you can't see it, then #F8F8F8 is for you.
Testing spoilers; can you see this? This is the color ghostwhite, so if you can't see it, then ghostwhite is for you.
Testing spoilers; can you see this? This is the color white, so if you can't see it, then white is for you.
Also, nobody may delete a post from early in the thread, as it would uncloak all spoilers by changing parity, and nobody may quote a spoiler from either parity. |
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Both #F8F8F8 and ghostwhite are completely invisible for me.
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Fritzlein
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Re: [quote author=Fritzlein link=bRe: Endgame Puzz
« Reply #11 on: Apr 3rd, 2011, 1:08am » |
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on Apr 3rd, 2011, 12:33am, Eltripas wrote:
Both #F8F8F8 and ghostwhite are completely invisible for me. |
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Likewise, Eltripas, your lightsteelblue is totally invisible to me, even though it is supposedly not quite #AFC6DB. But I was afraid it was just my poor old monitor and poor old eyes.
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ginrunner
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gold
My move list:
Ra3n Ra4e Rb4e Rc4e
ra6s ra5e rb5e rc5e
Ca1n Ca2e Cb2e Rd4e
rd5e da8e db8e dc8e
Re4e Rf4e Cc2e Rg4e
dd8e de8e df8e dg8s
Cd2n Cd3n Cd4n
dg7s
Cd5w re5w Cc5w rd5w
spoiler
every line I have found forces Cd5 Rh4 dg7 re5 with silver to move or some variation of gold rabbit on the far east to win and gold cat threatening the rabbit in the west to win.
I have yet to find a counter
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| « Last Edit: Apr 3rd, 2011, 1:56am by ginrunner » |
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Hippo
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 5
« Reply #13 on: Apr 3rd, 2011, 1:55am » |
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So my solution before reading the thread:
[edit]color changed[/edit]
A) 2 Rd4 d* 3 Rh4 * 4 C a5 * 5 * rc6x
B) 2 ... rd5 3 Re4 Cc2 dc7 re5 4 Rg5 Ce2 * 5 rfrozen(and C,R cannot be) * 6 rx
C) 3 ... * 4 Rh5 * 5 rfrozen * 6 rx
(the goal in 1 variants not emphasized)
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| « Last Edit: Apr 3rd, 2011, 6:14am by Hippo » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: Endgame Puzzle 5
« Reply #14 on: Apr 3rd, 2011, 9:24am » |
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To both ginrunner and Hippo; does reading chessandgo's spoiler above change your evaluation of the key move you both proposed? Neither of you refute his proposed 3s da8e db8e dc8e dd8s 4g Re4e Rf4e Rg4e Rh4n 4s dd7e de7e df7e rd5e.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 3rd, 2011, 9:31am by Fritzlein » |
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