Author |
Topic: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games (Read 541318 times) |
|
MarkSteere
Forum Guru
Finite games rule
Gender: 
Posts: 289
|
 |
Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #825 on: Dec 27th, 2011, 9:01am » |
|
on Dec 27th, 2011, 1:43am, SpeedRazor wrote:
Interesting  I had assumed you were talking about a square board torus representation where one edge disjointly connects to the opposite edge.
I'd be willing to give Tanbo a whirl on your wire board. As you said, it would eliminate edge bounding.
|
|
 IP Logged |
|
|
|
MarkSteere
Forum Guru
Finite games rule
Gender:
Posts: 289
|
|
Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #826 on: Dec 27th, 2011, 9:03am » |
|
What's that tiled board in the background?
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
christianF
Forum Moderator
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #4019
Gender:
Posts: 804
|
|
Re: rogramming Symple
« Reply #827 on: Dec 27th, 2011, 9:28am » |
|
on Dec 27th, 2011, 6:19am, christianF wrote:| And there's one more thing about it: handling the 'cooling' stage must be an absolute crime in terms of MCTS (never mind traditional evaluation and alpha-bèta pruning). |
|
That's not the best way to put it, maybe. What I mean is that humans can anticipate on the cooling stage by timely creation of 'good shape' for it. That's where any MCTS program, in so far as it can have 'clues', would be clueless.
It's like the MCTS Havannah bots, only worse: they're pretty good at tactics and immediate goals, but clueless regarding strategy.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
MarkSteere
Forum Guru
Finite games rule
Gender:
Posts: 289
|
|
Re: rogramming Symple
« Reply #828 on: Dec 27th, 2011, 2:56pm » |
|
on Dec 27th, 2011, 6:19am, christianF wrote:
you may be right.
well, then I was wrong
There is nothing wrong with it
unclear situations might arise. |
|
Champagne anyone?
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
christianF
Forum Moderator
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #4019
Gender:
Posts: 804
|
|
Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #829 on: Dec 28th, 2011, 8:37am » |
|
Nick Bentley made it to the finals of the Daniel Solis' 'Thousand-Year Game Design Challenge', the rest of us didn't.  Ah, well, there'll be another one in a thousand years.
Congrats Nick, hope you win the prize!
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
NickBentley
Forum Senior Member
Arimaa player #6704
Gender:
Posts: 44
|
|
Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #830 on: Dec 28th, 2011, 12:13pm » |
|
on Dec 28th, 2011, 8:37am, christianF wrote:Nick Bentley made it to the finals of the Daniel Solis' 'Thousand-Year Game Design Challenge', the rest of us didn't. Ah, well, there'll be another one in a thousand years.
Congrats Nick, hope you win the prize! |
|
Thanks Christian! I'm excited, though I hope this doesn't send me into one of my productivity-killing tailspins of game design.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
MarkSteere
Forum Guru
Finite games rule
Gender:
Posts: 289
|
|
Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #831 on: Dec 28th, 2011, 1:58pm » |
|
Symple - the "complacent" game that "there is nothing wrong with". Sorry, Christian. I don't mean to complain, but it's a fiasco.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
omar
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2
Gender:
Posts: 1003
|
|
Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #832 on: Dec 28th, 2011, 3:22pm » |
|
Congrats Nick. I'll be rooting for Ketchup.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
christianF
Forum Moderator
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #4019
Gender:
Posts: 804
|
|
Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #833 on: Dec 28th, 2011, 3:32pm » |
|
on Dec 28th, 2011, 1:58pm, MarkSteere wrote:| Symple - the "complacent" game that "there is nothing wrong with". Sorry, Christian. I don't mean to complain, but it's a fiasco. |
|
If anything was wrong with Symple, it would be this: players could legally pass on successive turns at an equal score. Disallowing a pass at an equal score would solve that 'problem'.
Considering compulsory movement in terms of having to at least place one stone made me observe that:
* this minor point wouldn't exist
* the rules would be simplified because 'vacant territory' wouldn't exist and would need no regulation (because 'counting' is regulation)
* it would strongly influence the game's character by changing the nature of the endgame and therewith the whole game
So I'm not fixing anything, I'm trying to find out what the organism 'wants' and I tend to trust the simplest possible impementation, which in this case would be the current.
But there are doubts about that and I allow for the possibility that I'm wrong. That's a concept that normal people are familiar with. If in doubt, consult your shrink.
P.S. Citing "unclear situations might arise" as anything other that my view on a rule suggestion made by Clyring was very smart, congrats.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
NickBentley
Forum Senior Member
Arimaa player #6704
Gender:
Posts: 44
|
|
Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #834 on: Dec 28th, 2011, 3:53pm » |
|
on Dec 28th, 2011, 3:22pm, omar wrote:| Congrats Nick. I'll be rooting for Ketchup. |
|
Thanks Omar
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
MarkSteere
Forum Guru
Finite games rule
Gender:
Posts: 289
|
|
Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #835 on: Dec 28th, 2011, 4:54pm » |
|
on Dec 28th, 2011, 3:32pm, christianF wrote:
If anything was wrong with Symple, it would be this: players could legally pass on successive turns at an equal score. Disallowing a pass at an equal score would solve that 'problem'. |
|
No quotes necessary. It is certainly an aesthetic problem, as would be an additional rule to "solve" it.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
christianF
Forum Moderator
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #4019
Gender:
Posts: 804
|
|
Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #836 on: Dec 29th, 2011, 12:44am » |
|
on Dec 28th, 2011, 4:54pm, MarkSteere wrote:
No quotes necessary. It is certainly an aesthetic problem, as would be an additional rule to "solve" it.
|
|
No quotes neccessary there either. I hope you've finally come to terms with the fact that you didn't invent Symple. Sorry to stumble on your "holy grail" accidentally. You can stop barking and peeing everywhere I walk now. Get out of the "productivity-killing tailspins of game design" as Nick calls it. No-one would like have the likes of Rive as his final contribution to game-design, or whatever you call your matchbox philosophy. 
|
| « Last Edit: Dec 29th, 2011, 12:45am by christianF » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
MarkSteere
Forum Guru
Finite games rule
Gender:
Posts: 289
|
|
Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #837 on: Dec 29th, 2011, 1:37am » |
|
on Dec 29th, 2011, 12:44am, christianF wrote:
You can stop barking and peeing everywhere I walk now.
|
|
I'm only barking and peeing where you've already lifted your leg.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
MarkSteere
Forum Guru
Finite games rule
Gender:
Posts: 289
|
|
Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #838 on: Dec 29th, 2011, 2:11am » |
|
And stop blaming me for your poor productivity.
[revolted head shaking]
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
|
christianF
Forum Moderator
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #4019
Gender:
Posts: 804
|
|
Re: Essay by Christian Freeling on inventing games
« Reply #839 on: Dec 29th, 2011, 2:47am » |
|
on Dec 29th, 2011, 2:11am, MarkSteere wrote:| And stop blaming me for your poor productivity. |
|
No productivity at all actually, I'm thoroughly enjoying being on the sideline, free from any annoying ambitions. In 2012 there's the Havannah Computer versus Human Challenge, in 2013 Symple will be the game for the CodeCup Challenge, which will at least provide some more insight regarding its programmability, and we still got Mu as a new enigma in the world of abstract games. That's quite enough games to suit me for the forseeable future.
I could make fun of you of course, but I won't. Let it be known that any such interpretation would be seriously misleading!
|
| « Last Edit: Dec 29th, 2011, 3:04am by christianF » |
IP Logged |
|
|
|
|
Home
Help
Search
Members
Login
Register
Notify of replies
Send Topic
Print