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   2007 One vs TheMob
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   Move 22
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   Author  Topic: Move 22  (Read 1520 times)
mdk
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Move 22
« on: Feb 1st, 2008, 2:36pm »
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Chessandgo plays 22w Me3e Mf3n Mf4e Mg4n
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Soter
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Re: Move 22
« Reply #1 on: Feb 1st, 2008, 3:05pm »
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Two "first glance" ideas:
 
1. Double drag ( since we cannot flip ) and kill the rabbit.
 
2. Send our E to g4 and freeze gold M.
 
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UruramTururam
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Re: Move 22
« Reply #2 on: Feb 1st, 2008, 5:11pm »
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Hmmm...
 
Trapping the rabbit looks tempting but I don't believe C&G has no answer prepared for that move. What could it be?
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The_Jeh
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Re: Move 22
« Reply #3 on: Feb 1st, 2008, 7:22pm »
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on Feb 1st, 2008, 5:11pm, UruramTururam wrote:
Hmmm...
 
Trapping the rabbit looks tempting but I don't believe C&G has no answer prepared for that move. What could it be?

 
It might be Mg5w Mf5w he6w Me5n, which leaves our f6 trap extremely open to an MH attack.
 
If we move e to g4, the result will in all probability be a trade of camels and rabbits. Either of us could force a trade. However, I think after trading camels, we lose a rabbit, whereas c&g only gets his framed.
« Last Edit: Feb 1st, 2008, 7:28pm by The_Jeh » IP Logged
Fritzlein
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Re: Move 22
« Reply #4 on: Feb 1st, 2008, 10:39pm »
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Wow, as usual chessandgo manages to astonish me.  My first reaction is to be thrilled that we can take his rabbit without giving up our own.  All that struggle, and we finally won!  First blood is ours!
 
As usual with chessandgo's moves, it isn't that simple.  After looking at the position a bit, I fully expect him to launch an MH attack against our f6 trap.  He would not be satisfied with pulling something towards f3 with his camel; that would be too slow.  And the MH attack is not trivial for us to deal with, tactically or strategically.  Below is some preliminary analysis:
 
But first, note that freezing the camel is punished by
 
22b ed3e ee3n ee4e ef4e
.    23w Rf1n rb3n mc3x Ha3e Ec5w
 
when it appears that we must immediately take the camel or lose the opportunity, but then our cat is hanging and we go down by a piece.
 
Taking only three steps to the west while saving our camel is better, seemingly allowing us equality after
 
22b ed3e ee3n ee4e mc3e
.    23w Ec5e Ed5s Rf1n Mg5e
.    .    23b ef4e eg4n eg5s Mh5w
.    .    .    24w md3e Ed4s rb3e rc3x Ha3e
.    .    .    .    24b Mg5w eg4n Mf5n Mf6x eg5w
.    .    .    .    .    25w me3e mf3x Ed3e Ee3n Ee4n
.    .    .    .    .    .    25b hg6s Rh6w Rg6w Rf6x hg5n
 
Although we have to avoid the trap of  
 
22b ed3e ee3n ee4e mc3e
.    23w Ec5e Ed5s Rf1n Mg5e
.    .    23b ha5s ha4e Dc4n hb4e
.    .    .    24w hc4s Ed4w rb3n Ha3e
 
I'm not too scared of The_Jeh's line after our pawn grab, because
 
22b hg6w Rh6w hf6w Rg6w Rf6x
.    23w Mg5w Mf5w he6w Me5n
.    .    23b ed3e ee3n ee4n mc3e
 
seems to keep us ahead by a rabbit, although the lines are complex.
 
Chessandgo's strongest reply to the rabbit grab seems to be charging with his horse first, leading to some very wild and unclear lines.
 
22b hg6w Rh6w hf6w Rg6w Rf6x
.    23w Mg5w Hg3n Hg4n Hg5n
.    .    23b ha5s ha4e df7s rf8s
.    .    .    24w Mf5w df6s df5s Me5e
.    .    .    .    24b ed3e mc3e rb3e hb4s
.    .    .    24w Mf5e df6s Dc4e Ec5s
.    .    .    .    24b ra8s ra7s ra6s ra5s
.    .    .    .    .    25w df5s Mg5w df4s df3x Mf5s
.    .    .    .    .    .    25b ed3e ee3n Mf4s Mf3x ee4e
.    .    .    .    .    .    .    26w hb4n Ec4w Eb4e rb3n mc3x
.    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    26b ef4n ef5e Hg6w Hf6x eg5n
.    .    .    .    .    25w df5s Mg5w Rf1n Ce2n
.    .    .    .    .    .    25b Ce3s ed3e mc3e Cc2n
.    .    .    .    .    .    .    26w Cc3s rb3e Ha3e Rf2e
.    .    .    .    .    .    .    .    26b ee3n he6w hd6s df4e
 
My current thought is that we should enter the maelstrom and hope that having more eyeballs on our team will make us better tactically than chessandgo.  And we'll be ahead by a rabbit.  Smiley
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Re: Move 22
« Reply #5 on: Feb 2nd, 2008, 9:03am »
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One short question: assuming that 22b hg6w Rh6w hf6w Rg6w Rf6x will get the popular vote,  should we treat 23w Mg5n Hg3n Hg4n Hg5w as a mere clone of 23w  Mg5w Hg3n Hg4n Hg5n? Which one is more dangerous?
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jdb
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Re: Move 22
« Reply #6 on: Feb 2nd, 2008, 9:10am »
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Quote:
Chessandgo's strongest reply to the rabbit grab seems to be charging with his horse first, leading to some very wild and unclear lines.  
 
22b hg6w Rh6w hf6w Rg6w Rf6x  
. 23w Mg5w Hg3n Hg4n Hg5n  

 
After this move the f3 trap is open to attack. Something like
 
24b e->e4 m->e3
 
If silver sends a rabbit up the h file, gold will be forced to spend time defending, as there are only 3 lonely rabbits there at the moment and silver should be able to win a goal race.
 
But there are tactics everywhere, so lots of checking would be required.
« Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2008, 9:11am by jdb » IP Logged
Fritzlein
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Re: Move 22
« Reply #7 on: Feb 3rd, 2008, 4:40pm »
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on Feb 2nd, 2008, 9:03am, Soter wrote:
One short question: assuming that 22b hg6w Rh6w hf6w Rg6w Rf6x will get the popular vote,  should we treat 23w Mg5n Hg3n Hg4n Hg5w as a mere clone of 23w  Mg5w Hg3n Hg4n Hg5n? Which one is more dangerous?

 
23w Mg5n Hg3n Hg4n Hg5w seems to be less dangerous to us.  Even if we spend no steps defending, he can't take over the trap on his next turn in a way we can't defend, unlike the other move.  Also unlike the other move, we can stuff a horse into f6 as a possible defense, and the camel will take longer to threaten that horse in f3.
 
The only reason for chessandgo to attack with his camel on the flank appears to be keeping his camel further from our elephant, but that that seems a secondary consideration in this position.
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Re: Move 22
« Reply #8 on: Feb 3rd, 2008, 4:48pm »
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I just realized that I'm about to miss my first vote of the Mob game.  I'll be without Internet access until after the move is made.  Good luck Mobsters!
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Re: Move 22
« Reply #9 on: Feb 4th, 2008, 11:18am »
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Hmmm... not much of a discussion so far. Has everyone already decided? If yes, we may vote - and replenish our reserve.
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99of9
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Re: Move 22
« Reply #10 on: Feb 4th, 2008, 3:03pm »
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Yes, I agree with the kill.
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UruramTururam
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Re: Move 22
« Reply #11 on: Feb 4th, 2008, 3:07pm »
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Ok, let's vote!
 
Or perhaps let's agree on trapping the wabbit... Ron?
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Re: Move 22
« Reply #12 on: Feb 4th, 2008, 4:25pm »
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Yes, I agree with the kill

 
Seconded. Silver first to kill, Silver first to goal ( at least I hope so  Smiley ).
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jdb
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Re: Move 22
« Reply #13 on: Feb 4th, 2008, 6:14pm »
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I vote to capture the rabbit.
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Re: Move 22
« Reply #14 on: Feb 5th, 2008, 4:31am »
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capture, capture, capture!!!!
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