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Topic: Move 38 (Read 4486 times) |
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Nombril
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37s: rg6e hg5n Rg4n ef4e
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Nombril
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #1 on: May 21st, 2010, 6:30pm » |
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It seems we can have time to take the c5 dog...something along the lines of
38g rb6w Db5n dc5n dc6x Ed5w
38s Hg3s eg4s Hg2s eg3s
39g Ec5e dd4s Ed5s Rc4n
39s ra4e ca5e Rc5s cb5e
40g dd3w dc3x Ed4s Ed3e Ca3e
This is just a first glance - there is probably a better defense.
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lostcalpolydude
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #2 on: May 21st, 2010, 7:47pm » |
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I was thinking
38s Hg3w eg4s rh4s ? (maybe rb8e as a defensive step)
but I see that working out well for us still. I think he has to take the g7 dog and bring his horse over to defend around the c6 trap.
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Hippo
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #3 on: May 22nd, 2010, 5:30am » |
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I have no plan window available now, but I like our position. We can choose which dog to change. c5 is attaccking move d4 is defensive one. As I remember c5 could be OK.
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #4 on: May 22nd, 2010, 6:03am » |
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on May 21st, 2010, 6:30pm, Nombril wrote:It seems we can have time to take the c5 dog...something along the lines of
38g rb6w Db5n dc5n dc6x Ed5w
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on May 21st, 2010, 7:47pm, lostcalpolydude wrote:I was thinking
38s Hg3w eg4s rh4s ? (maybe rb8e as a defensive step)
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Yeah definitely this, Nombril's 38s allows us to advance the Rc4 to c6 and goal on next move. I don't think silver can capture anything on f6 for the same reason. I don't think sacrificing the Hf3 on 39g works:
38g dc5n Ed5w rb6w dc6x Db5n
38s Hg3w eg4s rh4s rb8e
39g Cc2n Ec5e Rc4n Cc3x Rf2e Hf3x
39s ca5e ra6s Rc5s cb5e
40g cc5n cc6x Ed5w Rc4w Rb4n
40s Rg2w eg3s ra7e
but I can smell blood too  I would be surprised if we don't find a forced (or at least intuitively forced) goal in this thread.
38g dc5n Ed5w rb6w dc6x Db5n
38s Hg3w eg4s rh4s rb8e
39g Hf3n Rf2e Hf4e Hg4e
does already look very good (note that silver can't capture the Dg7 without allowing goal).
Also 39g Rd2e Re2n Rf2e Ec5e seems to pretty much kill the game (I guess the resulting position should be a goal in 3/4 or 5 maybe).
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| « Last Edit: May 22nd, 2010, 6:07am by chessandgo » |
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jdb
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #5 on: May 22nd, 2010, 6:11am » |
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on May 21st, 2010, 7:47pm, lostcalpolydude wrote:I was thinking
38s Hg3w eg4s rh4s ? (maybe rb8e as a defensive step)
but I see that working out well for us still. I think he has to take the g7 dog and bring his horse over to defend around the c6 trap. |
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This move looks stronger. We will need to check this out fully to be sure the c5 dog can be taken.
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Hippo
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #6 on: May 22nd, 2010, 1:02pm » |
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on May 22nd, 2010, 6:03am, chessandgo wrote:
38g dc5n Ed5w rb6w dc6x Db5n
38s Hg3w eg4s rh4s rb8e
39g Rd2e Re2n Rf2e Ec5e seems to pretty much kill the game (I guess the resulting position should be a goal in 3/4 or 5 maybe). |
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I like this variant +1 for taking c5 dog.
I would be surprised if we will not win till 42g.
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RonWeasley
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #7 on: May 22nd, 2010, 5:15pm » |
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After taking the c5 dog, I'm worried about
38s Hg3w eg4s hh4s eg3s
Defending, 39g Hf3e Ec5e Ed5e Ee5e (maybe there's better way)
Then 39s rh6s rh5s Rg5s hg6s
Can't take the h3 rabbit with the horse because 40s eg2s Rh2w rh4s rh3s
The only other 40g stopping goal is Hg3w rh3w with two other steps. The other two steps protect the horse (and goal). Then silver does 41s eg2s Rh2w rh4s rh3s anyway.
So please help show this does not lose. Otherwise, I say take the d4 dog instead.
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Nombril
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #8 on: May 22nd, 2010, 7:04pm » |
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Ron, how about:
38g dc5n Ed5w rb6w dc6x Db5n
38s Hg3w eg4s rh4s eg3s
39g Ec5e Hf3e Cc2s Ca3e
39s rh6s rh5s ra4e ca5e
40g Cc1e Cd1e Ce1e Cf1e
Our b3 cat can step north to unfreeze our rabbit, and having our extra cat on goal defense behind silver's elephant should keep things slow enough for us to goal, right?
At this point, I looked at pushing the f2 rabbit north, but we can put the d2 rabbit to f2 in two steps, while unfreezing our c4 rabbit. I don't see what other pieces can come help the attack.
I certainly expect that Fritz sees our threat, and he has continued his attack because either:
a. we are missing something
or
b. he hopes we miss something
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #9 on: May 23rd, 2010, 1:17am » |
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aha, nice. I can't find a forced goal after
38g dc5n Ed5w rb6w dc6x Db5n
38s Hg3w eg4s eg3s rh4s
39g Cc2n Ec5e Rc4n Cc3x Hf3e
39s ca5e ra6s Rc5s cb5e
and
38g dc5n Ed5w rb6w dc6x Db5n
38s Hg3w eg4s eg3s rh4s
39g Cc2n Hf3e Ec5w Rc4n Cc3x
39s ra7e rb7e dd4n dd5n
seems to defend as well for silver. And:
38g dc5n Ed5w rb6w dc6x Db5n
38s Hg3w eg4s eg3s rh4s
39g Hf3n Hf4e Rg5e Hg4s
39s Hg3n eg2n Hg4n eg3n
40g Rf2e Cc2n Ec5e Rc4n Cc3x
40s ca5e ra6s Rc5s cb5e
or
38g dc5n Ed5w rb6w dc6x Db5n
38s Hg3w eg4s eg3s rh4s
39g Hf3n Hf4e Rg5e Hg4s
39s Hg3n eg2n Hg4n eg3n
40g Cc2n Rd2n Rf2e Ec5e
40s eg4w rh3w rg3w rb8e
are not so clear either.
Hum.
Maybe quad's analysis would be helpful here (not sure whether aaaa still reads the Mob forum)?
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| « Last Edit: May 23rd, 2010, 1:40am by chessandgo » |
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chessandgo
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #10 on: May 23rd, 2010, 1:44am » |
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on May 22nd, 2010, 7:04pm, Nombril wrote:Ron, how about:
38g dc5n Ed5w rb6w dc6x Db5n
38s Hg3w eg4s rh4s eg3s
39g Ec5e Hf3e Cc2s Ca3e
39s rh6s rh5s ra4e ca5e
40g Cc1e Cd1e Ce1e Cf1e
Our b3 cat can step north to unfreeze our rabbit, and having our extra cat on goal defense behind silver's elephant should keep things slow enough for us to goal, right?
At this point, I looked at pushing the f2 rabbit north, but we can put the d2 rabbit to f2 in two steps, while unfreezing our c4 rabbit. I don't see what other pieces can come help the attack.
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This does look good. I guess I was too optimistic about forcing a goal, but here we have two extra pieces and a strong goal attack. I don't think silver can't get anything going on the h-file before we goal in the west.
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jdb
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #11 on: May 23rd, 2010, 5:51am » |
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I did some analysis with clueless.
38g dc5n Ed5w rb6w dc6x Db5n
38s Hg3w eg4s eg3s rh4s
39g Cc2n Ec5e Rc4n Cc3x Hf3e
39s ca5e ra6s Rc5s cb5e
40g dd4s Ed5s dd3w dc3x Ed4s
40s ra4e rb4s rh8s rh5s
And goal the next move for silver.
Other 40g moves look very complicated.
40g Rd2e Re2n Ca3e Db6s is what clueless likes so far.
I think attacking on 39g in this line will make the game very complicated.
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Hippo
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #12 on: May 23rd, 2010, 6:33am » |
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Yes, I don't like the cat sacrifice at 39g.
Having the cat at g1 is much better plan.
I cannot see Fritzlein further counterattacks or defences.
(38g rb6w Db5n dc5n dc6x Ed5w
38s Hg3w eg4s rh4s eg3s
39g Hf3e Ca3e Cc2s Ec5e
39s rh6s rh5s rb8e ca5e
40g Cc1e Cd1e Ce1e Cf1e
40s Rf2n eg2w ef2e ra6s
41g Rd2ee x x we have more options, but not immediate goal)
I am still voting +1 for capturing the c5 dog (with ra6) ... but this needs more than 42 turns  .
Capturing d4 dog would give Fritzlein time to capture our dog and consolidate. In recommended variant our cat advantage would apply as both our cats start participating.
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| « Last Edit: May 23rd, 2010, 7:02am by Hippo » |
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jdb
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #13 on: May 23rd, 2010, 7:31am » |
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For the following line:
38g dc5n Ed5w rb6w dc6x Db5n
38s Hg3w eg4s eg3s rh4s
On 38g, instead of rb6w, rb6n is possible.
On 38s, The elephant can stop on g3. This allows silver a step elsewhere which will alter the tactics considerably.
Just a couple things to keep in mind while looking at this move.
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Hippo
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Re: Move 38
« Reply #14 on: May 23rd, 2010, 7:47am » |
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on May 23rd, 2010, 7:31am, jdb wrote:For the following line:
38g dc5n Ed5w rb6w dc6x Db5n
38s Hg3w eg4s eg3s rh4s
On 38g, instead of rb6w, rb6n is possible.
On 38s, The elephant can stop on g3. This allows silver a step elsewhere which will alter the tactics considerably.
Just a couple things to keep in mind while looking at this move.
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It seems to me eg2 step is essential as it makes goal in 1 threat. Otherwise we could probably spent all 4 our steps attacking. And with rabbit at c6 rather than c5 it would be much difficult to defend.
Oops ... I had to look to board at first ... you are right
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| « Last Edit: May 23rd, 2010, 8:24am by Hippo » |
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