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   Author  Topic: 2015 Move 20g  (Read 2720 times)
deep_blue
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2015 Move 20g
« on: Apr 14th, 2016, 9:48am »
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Sharp played 19s Rc5s hc6s re8w dd6w:
« Last Edit: Apr 14th, 2016, 9:54am by deep_blue » IP Logged
aaaa
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Re: 2015 Move 20g
« Reply #1 on: Apr 14th, 2016, 4:16pm »
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20g Eb5s mb6s Eb4s mb5s should obviously be considered here.
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deep_blue
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Re: 2015 Move 20g
« Reply #2 on: Apr 14th, 2016, 5:48pm »
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What that 20g Eb5s mb6s Eb4s mb5s gets answered by simply 20s Rc4s ed4w mb4n mb5n ?
I am not sure what we accomplished. The Rc3 is maybe a little bit better placed but what is our E doing on b3?!
I don't see a good move for use though. We could try 20g Eb5s hc5w Rc4n Eb4e to threaten the silver horse at some point but that doesn't look great either.
« Last Edit: Apr 14th, 2016, 5:50pm by deep_blue » IP Logged
aaaa
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Re: 2015 Move 20g
« Reply #3 on: Apr 15th, 2016, 3:43pm »
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on Apr 14th, 2016, 5:48pm, deep_blue wrote:
What that 20g Eb5s mb6s Eb4s mb5s gets answered by simply 20s Rc4s ed4w mb4n mb5n ?
I am not sure what we accomplished. The Rc3 is maybe a little bit better placed but what is our E doing on b3?!
I don't see a good move for use though. We could try 20g Eb5s hc5w Rc4n Eb4e to threaten the silver horse at some point but that doesn't look great either.

You're right. I had this false idea Gold could reply by centralizing the elephant at Silver's expense.
I don't see anything better than your move. For a different plan, one could consider putting a rabbit on a4 to threaten Eb5s mb6s Ha6e Ra5n, but even that isn't much of a threat.
If the decision is made to finally throw in the towel, I, for one, wouldn't object too much to it.
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Hippo
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Re: 2015 Move 20g
« Reply #4 on: Apr 15th, 2016, 3:59pm »
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I thought about Rb2-b3, Rc4-b4. Or Rb2-c3, Rc4-a4.
Expecting hd5 Dd6 ec5 in reply (in both cases).
 
Or may be rather ec4 dc5 De6 he5 in the latter.
 
I cannot see any way to save our dog or get some compensation for it.
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half_integer
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Re: 2015 Move 20g
« Reply #5 on: Apr 15th, 2016, 8:10pm »
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I am also having trouble coming up with moves, but perhaps this:
 
20g Eb4:Mb5 Mb7:Rb6
 
If silver moves back to position such as  
20s Dd6 Rc6 Mb6 X (De6?)
then we can unhostage the horse with
21g Mc7:Rb7 Ha7 X (Eb5?)
 
Silver can escape in other ways, however this frees our horse, unless he uses Ma5:Ra4 which puts his camel in a poor position.
 
Is there another silver response which is much worse for us?
 
Edit:  
 
It looks like the 20s above modified to Dc7 Rc6 Mb6 X (De6?) would be a Pyrrhic victory for us, with the horse freed but camel and horse trapped in the corner.  However, we could do pull-and-replace on the camel at b6 (with either response) so perhaps this still improves our position.  It at least gives us greater control over his camel.  He could block pull-and-replace with a 4th step Hb5, but then we're tying up more of his pieces defending this maneuver; we could follow up with Ec4 Rcb4 threatening to keep his pieces in the West too.
 
I also found 20s Rc7 Rc8 H:.Dd6 which blockades the camel, but we might get some benefit from flipping the camel in this line.  (Interesting how there is false protection after 20s but we can't execute it.  However, this becomes a latent threat if we make b5 empty later.)
 
I'm still not sure these outcomes are worse than from the other available moves.  At least we change the situation to a less static one.
« Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2016, 6:59am by half_integer » IP Logged
deep_blue
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Re: 2015 Move 20g
« Reply #6 on: Apr 16th, 2016, 8:24am »
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I don't think I like that move. You said that silver camel is misplaced on a5 but e.g. 20s Ra5s mb5w cd7w rd8s I don't think the ma5 is a problem for silver. And then it's not clear for me how we as gold proceed. Our rabbits on a4 and c4 are sort of annoying for our E.
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Hufflepup
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Re: 2015 Move 20g
« Reply #7 on: Apr 16th, 2016, 1:02pm »
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What about 20g: Eb5s mb6s Ha6e ra7s This would allow us to get our hostaged horse out of such an awkward position.
 
If silver pushed the our horse into the trap one possibe follow up would be 21g: Cd2n De2n Cd3w Eb4n in preparation for getting our rabbit out of the way so we can make some kind of threat against the silver horse. We could do something similar if the horse was pushed to b7 instead.
 
Alternatively we could play 20g: De2n Cd2n Cd3w Rc4w immediately. This would expose the Cat on the trap to capture, but I can't see a way for silver to take it this turn without taking a bigger loss e.g.
 
20g: De2n Cd2n Cd3w Rc4w
20s: ed4s ed3s ed2n Rc2e
21g: Rb4w hc5s Eb5e Dd5n
 
Looks good for us.
« Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2016, 1:04pm by Hufflepup » IP Logged
Hufflepup
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Re: 2015 Move 20g
« Reply #8 on: Apr 16th, 2016, 1:37pm »
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Quote:
20g Eb4:Mb5 Mb7:Rb6
 
If silver moves back to position such as  
20s Dd6 Rc6 Mb6 X (De6?)
then we can unhostage the horse with
21g Mc7:Rb7 Ha7 X (Eb5?)
 
Silver can escape in other ways, however this frees our horse, unless he uses Ma5:Ra4 which puts his camel in a poor position.
 
Is there another silver response which is much worse for us?

 
What about 20s: Ra5s mb5w rb6s dc6w
 
I can't see how we would be able to threaten either the silver horse or camel from this position, our elephant would be highly decentralised, and the silver a5 rabbit would become very dangerous if we attempted to move the elephant. Meanwhile silver can capture our dog and rabbit.  
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Hippo
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Re: 2015 Move 20g
« Reply #9 on: Apr 16th, 2016, 1:44pm »
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For moves ending with Rb4 reply like ec5 hd5 De6 look good for silver.
 
... but it does not mean we have a better option ...
 
What about rb8 Mb7 without camel pull?
 
What with the remaining steps? De3, Cd3?
« Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2016, 2:00pm by Hippo » IP Logged

half_integer
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Re: 2015 Move 20g
« Reply #10 on: Apr 16th, 2016, 2:44pm »
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With M:Rb8 our camel is easily blockaded.  Effectively both our camel and horse would still be frozen, and we have no immediate threat against the silver horse or camel.  This seems too favorable to silver to me.
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Hippo
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Re: 2015 Move 20g
« Reply #11 on: Apr 16th, 2016, 3:50pm »
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It seems to me pull and replace at b6 could be fine (if silver spends time blocking the camel) ... with possible future camel flip
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Hufflepup
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Re: 2015 Move 20g
« Reply #12 on: Apr 16th, 2016, 5:13pm »
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Quote:
For moves ending with Rb4 reply like ec5 hd5 De6 look good for silver.

 
Do you mean 20s: Dd5n hc5e ed4w ec4n ? That looks like a very strong response. I can't see how we could make any kind of response quick enough to gain any compensation for the dog and rabbit, so I consider this proposal to be refuted.
 
I agree with half_integer about M:Rb8. This leaves continuing to make some kind of threat against the camel which brings me back to 20g: De2n Cd2n Cd3w Rc4w.
 
Whilst sivler can retreat the camel to b6 it  looks very difficult to reestablish the horse hostage from that position, so we make some kind of strategic gain. Silver also couldn't make any progress on capturing our dog/rabbit on 20s without allowing us to flip his camel into a very exposed position.
« Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2016, 5:14pm by Hufflepup » IP Logged
Lion
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Re: 2015 Move 20g
« Reply #13 on: Apr 16th, 2016, 9:40pm »
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What about getting a rabbit to a4 (threatening the camel pull + horse and rabbit advance)?
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Hippo
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Re: 2015 Move 20g
« Reply #14 on: Apr 17th, 2016, 4:41am »
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on Apr 16th, 2016, 9:40pm, Lion wrote:
What about getting a rabbit to a4 (threatening the camel pull + horse and rabbit advance)?

 
It was my 2nd proposal ... see my 1st post
 (and aaaa's one post earlier).
« Last Edit: Apr 17th, 2016, 4:11pm by Hippo » IP Logged

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