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Topic: League Feedback (Read 34734 times) |
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knarl
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Re: League Feedback
« Reply #60 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 4:06am » |
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Megajester, what were your thoughts on the suggestions to simplify the substitution rules? Ie. Make the penalty known, and let the clubs decide for themselves in which circumstance they'll make a substitution, and they can just do the official challenge at the end of 15mins.
Clubs can then have their own debate whether a sub has to be captain approved, or if anyone can save the day if they're there, or if their rating is close enough, etc. etc.
I think it would be good, because it adds to team strategy, and simplifies the rules.
Cheers,
knarl.
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megajester
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Re: League Feedback
« Reply #61 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 4:47am » |
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on Mar 28th, 2010, 4:06am, knarl wrote:Megajester, what were your thoughts on the suggestions to simplify the substitution rules? Ie. Make the penalty known, and let the clubs decide for themselves in which circumstance they'll make a substitution, and they can just do the official challenge at the end of 15mins.
Clubs can then have their own debate whether a sub has to be captain approved, or if anyone can save the day if they're there, or if their rating is close enough, etc. etc.
I think it would be good, because it adds to team strategy, and simplifies the rules.
Cheers,
knarl. |
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Most of the substitution rules are actually there to leave a "paper trail" in the case of any dispute. As LC, I should be able to walk away on Thursday, come back on Tuesday and know what happened, who was the official substitute, who forfeited etc. etc. I don't think the procedure is overly complicated.
Substitutions step 1 is there so that it isn't unfair on the player who has been rostered. Basically, if the player is on the roster, and he likes the time of the scheduled game, after 00:00 Thursday he should be able to walk away until the game. Otherwise what could happen is the team decides to sub him behind his back. Of course, the team is free to discuss who should step up to the plate if he doesn't show up, there's nothing in the rules against that. Making it that substitutions are only allowed if the player himself states he will be unavailable is also good to prevent captains from handpicking subs based on the opposing team's roster.
The statements under Substitutions step 2 and Player Absence that "the highest rated player takes precedence" does not mean that the highest rated player should play, it just means the highest rated player has first dibs if the captain is unavailable to make the decision. Of course the players should discuss it. The point of that wording is to make sure everybody knows where they stand so an almighty argument doesn't blow up if the captain is unavailable.
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Adanac
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Re: League Feedback
« Reply #62 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 4:53am » |
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I still think that we need some sort of penalty to discourage unnecessary substitutions. Otherwise, if a team has two players with identical, or nearly identical, ratings the captain can announce one player in the starting lineup and then switch to the other player on gameday, intending to trick the opponent into preparing for the wrong player. Or, having seen the lineups, the captain might try to remove a player and replace him with someone that has a better career W-L record against a particular opponent.
A simple suggestion would either be a flat adjustment penalty (+200 rating cost for any substitution, for example) or we could deduct the point that the team would have received for non-forfeiture. Either way, we should penalize substitutions a bit more harshly than the current proposal. I think the current system is a bit too lenient, and almost encourages substitutions as a legitimate strategy.
And I will also suggest one additional substitution rule:
"A player can only serve as a substitute if he has not already played a game or been scheduled to play a game in this round". The first part is obvious but the second part is important because it prevents a player from skipping a scheduled game and then being used as a substitute in a different game.
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megajester
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Re: League Feedback
« Reply #63 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 5:42am » |
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on Mar 28th, 2010, 4:53am, Adanac wrote:| I still think that we need some sort of penalty to discourage unnecessary substitutions. Otherwise, if a team has two players with identical, or nearly identical, ratings the captain can announce one player in the starting lineup and then switch to the other player on gameday, intending to trick the opponent into preparing for the wrong player. |
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You did catch the bit about only allowing substitutions if the originally rostered player says it's OK? The current rules say this is step 1 if the substitution is to be valid. I had being relying on the word "must", maybe I should have made it clearer.
on Mar 28th, 2010, 4:53am, Adanac wrote:| Or, having seen the lineups, the captain might try to remove a player and replace him with someone that has a better career W-L record against a particular opponent. |
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He would of course have to convince the originally rostered player to officially relinquish his position on the board. Tough but possible, you're right.
on Mar 28th, 2010, 4:53am, Adanac wrote:
A simple suggestion would either be a flat adjustment penalty (+200 rating cost for any substitution, for example) or we could deduct the point that the team would have received for non-forfeiture. |
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I like the flat penalty. Simple, works. Regardless of the original player's rating it's the sub's rating +200. We could even make it a bit higher for it to be a real disincentive. The rule would also extend to player absence, to make it an incentive in that direction as well.
on Mar 28th, 2010, 4:53am, Adanac wrote:
And I will also suggest one additional substitution rule:
"A player can only serve as a substitute if he has not already played a game or been scheduled to play a game in this round". The first part is obvious but the second part is important because it prevents a player from skipping a scheduled game and then being used as a substitute in a different game. |
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Sorry I forgot to add that to the draft. Will be doing so ASAP.
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azgreg
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Re: League Feedback
« Reply #64 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 6:03am » |
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I really think you're on to something fun here. That rating budget will add a lot of drama and uncertainty to the league as captains try to balance their desire to play top-flight players every week and their fast-dwindling budget.
What if a player doesn't have a WHR rating?
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Adanac
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Re: League Feedback
« Reply #65 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 6:14am » |
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on Mar 28th, 2010, 6:03am, azgreg wrote:I really think you're on to something fun here. That rating budget will add a lot of drama and uncertainty to the league as captains try to balance their desire to play top-flight players every week and their fast-dwindling budget.
What if a player doesn't have a WHR rating? |
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I think that 1500 is the default. Hmm, that's a problem isn't it? Because now someone rated below 1500 will always have a peak of 1500. Oh well, it shouldn't be too bad because everyone in the League currently has a rating above 1500.
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nycavri
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Re: League Feedback
« Reply #66 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 10:30am » |
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Um, not sure if that's true. My overall rating is in the 13xx range. Where would I find my WHR number?
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| « Last Edit: Mar 28th, 2010, 10:30am by nycavri » |
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azgreg
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Re: League Feedback
« Reply #67 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 10:59am » |
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I would ask everyone to perhaps consider revising the calculation of the rating budget. At the current 1950 average per match, Europa is at a severe disadvantage when chessandgo plays. His WHR of 2744 means that the other two boards need to average 1553 to keep the team budget "on pace" to not run over. The same thing applies to Fritzlein's team.
Maybe the "average" player used to calculate the budget should be 2000 or 2100? That way if you don't have a World Champion on your team you can really load up on all three boards, but if you do have one, you're not reduced to using beginners.
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megajester
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Re: League Feedback
« Reply #68 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 11:04am » |
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When I use the match scheduler it lets me view WHR ratings. Just for the record nycavri, you currently have a WHR rating of 1549.
Fritzlein has asked woh to set up a peak WHR ratings page. As I understand it, everybody starts off with a 1500 rating, so even those who have dipped below it still have a peak rating of 1500.
According to League Rules v2010.03.27a:
START On the start date (April 12th 2010) the LC will:
- Prepare and maintain a players list with their ratings. ("Rating" refers to peak WHR rating as per 00:00 GMT Tuesday on Week 2 of any given round.)
I will do this using the wiki. In fact I will make a fresh page for each round just in case ratings budget costings should need to be confirmed or recalculated.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 28th, 2010, 11:13am by megajester » |
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megajester
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Re: League Feedback
« Reply #69 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 11:16am » |
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on Mar 28th, 2010, 10:59am, azgreg wrote:| At the current 1950 average per match, Europa is at a severe disadvantage when chessandgo plays. His WHR of 2744 means that the other two boards need to average 1553 to keep the team budget "on pace" to not run over. |
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That's... sort of... the whole point of the ratings budget?? 
I do get your point though, that was sort-of the idea beind the "+50" in that equation. We also need to figure in that peak WHR ratings are probably going to rise as the League progresses.
How about "+150" instead?
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Adanac
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Re: League Feedback
« Reply #70 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 11:18am » |
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on Mar 28th, 2010, 10:30am, nycavri wrote:| Um, not sure if that's true. My overall rating is in the 13xx range. Where would I find my WHR number? |
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In the gameroom go to Players -> Top Rated Players -> WHR Ratings for HH games or try this link
http://home.scarlet.be/~woh/whr/whrh.htm
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Adanac
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Re: League Feedback
« Reply #71 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 11:33am » |
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on Mar 28th, 2010, 11:16am, megajester wrote:
That's... sort of... the whole point of the ratings budget??
I do get your point though, that was sort-of the idea beind the "+50" in that equation. We also need to figure in that peak WHR ratings are probably going to rise as the League progresses.
How about "+150" instead? |
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Would that put the rating cap at around 2000 per game? Or 36000 per season. If so, I think that's a reasonable total. It's enough that most teams can use their best players fairly regularly, but not every week.
Perhaps this season teams will use lower-rated players against the Yankees so that they can use stronger players against the other clubs (unless the Yankees beef up with about 2-3 extra 2000+ players) . If so, that will negate some of the disadvantage that the Yankees team will currently face with the expanded rating cap.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 28th, 2010, 11:35am by Adanac » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: League Feedback
« Reply #72 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 11:53am » |
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on Mar 28th, 2010, 10:59am, azgreg wrote:| I would ask everyone to perhaps consider revising the calculation of the rating budget. At the current 1950 average per match, Europa is at a severe disadvantage when chessandgo plays. His WHR of 2744 means that the other two boards need to average 1553 to keep the team budget "on pace" to not run over. The same thing applies to Fritzlein's team. |
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Exactly. If there wasn't a severe penalty for playing chessandgo, you would just use him every round and rack up an automatic three points for the win. My personal feeling is that if the budgets mean that chessandgo and I only get trotted out once or twice in the whole season for special occasions, that's fine. That would be good for the league, not bad. Let's don't raise the budgets so high they are meaningless and we land right back at the league winner being the team that has chessandgo on it. 
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nycavri
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Re: League Feedback
« Reply #73 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 12:07pm » |
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on Mar 28th, 2010, 11:04am, megajester wrote:| Just for the record nycavri, you currently have a WHR rating of 1549. |
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Nice to know it's those darn bots that are really causing me problems . . .
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knarl
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Re: League Feedback
« Reply #74 on: Mar 28th, 2010, 2:22pm » |
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on Mar 28th, 2010, 4:47am, megajester wrote:
Most of the substitution rules are actually there to leave a "paper trail" in the case of any dispute. As LC, I should be able to walk away on Thursday, come back on Tuesday and know what happened, who was the official substitute, who forfeited etc. etc. I don't think the procedure is overly complicated.
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OK
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Substitutions step 1 is there so that it isn't unfair on the player who has been rostered. Basically, if the player is on the roster, and he likes the time of the scheduled game, after 00:00 Thursday he should be able to walk away until the game. Otherwise what could happen is the team decides to sub him behind his back. Of course, the team is free to discuss who should step up to the plate if he doesn't show up, there's nothing in the rules against that. Making it that substitutions are only allowed if the player himself states he will be unavailable is also good to prevent captains from handpicking subs based on the opposing team's roster.
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I still don't quite see the need for this step, because if a substitution can only happen after 15mins of game time, the original player always has the option to play. He just has to make sure he's there on time (which is the case anyway).
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The statements under Substitutions step 2 and Player Absence that "the highest rated player takes precedence" does not mean that the highest rated player should play, it just means the highest rated player has first dibs if the captain is unavailable to make the decision. Of course the players should discuss it. The point of that wording is to make sure everybody knows where they stand so an almighty argument doesn't blow up if the captain is unavailable. |
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Fair enough. I just thought the clubs could work that kind of thing out for themselves. Whatever substitution rules get put in place, I don't think it's a big deal. I don't see them being inacted much anyway. I like the idea of a bigger penalty too, brings it closer to having no subs. Subs won't be needed much anyway with the flexibility the ratings cap gives the captains to play all their members.
Cheers,
knarl.
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