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   Author  Topic: "Arimaa: Game-Over?" - 2nd KingPin Artic  (Read 1087 times)
PotatoeTheCat
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"Arimaa: Game-Over?" - 2nd KingPin Artic
« on: Jul 19th, 2015, 11:32am »
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http://www.kingpinchess.net/2015/07/arimaa-game-over/
 
The second KingPin article on Arimaa was published last weekend.
 
I'd like to thank David Wu for the photo and some help in writing the article.  However, myself & KP are responsible for any errors, whether of commission or omission, in the article.
 
KP welcomes controversy, especially if you disagree with the magazine.
 
This thread is created for any feedback or discussion arising from the above article.  (The article is also mentioned on the "Winning the Challenge" forum topic - but please use this thread for any comments.)
 
Of course, anyone is welcome to leave comments directly on the KP homepage, if they wish to do so.
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clyring
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Re: "Arimaa: Game-Over?" - 2nd KingPin A
« Reply #1 on: Jul 19th, 2015, 1:05pm »
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Quote:
At the Computer Challenge Award Ceremony (9 May 2015), Jean dismissed any notion of a statistical fluke, and was fulsome in his praise of his computer opponent, describing it as “very, very strong … making mistakes in only a few positions”. Commenting on whether Sharp had now better assimilated the lessons of his 2011 workb than any of his other (human) opponents, Jean responded that rather Sharp has actually expanded our conception of Arimaa strategy: to the point where now it is us humans who should start to learn from Sharp’s play. Gasp!

The actual quote from the award ceremony, from 22m57s onward in the recording, is "This version of sharp is very, very strong, but in a few positions, it's making big mistakes." Not that there aren't remarks in the ceremony that express real and strong praise toward sharp, but this particular one doesn't. Smiley
« Last Edit: Jul 19th, 2015, 1:19pm by clyring » IP Logged



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PotatoeTheCat
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Re: "Arimaa: Game-Over?" - 2nd KingPin A
« Reply #2 on: Jul 19th, 2015, 2:14pm »
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@Clrying,
Sincere thanks for the point of detail.  Duly noted.
 
My comments were based on hand written notes, scribbled down while Omar/Jean/David were talking.  I tried to verify these while writing the article by replaying the broadcast, but could not find these on any obvious place on the Arimaa website (and still can't Sad).
 
However, good to hear, at any rate, that you concur that the main timbre of the broadcast comments were captured correctly.
 
@All,
Keep up the comments. Smiley
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deep_blue
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Re: "Arimaa: Game-Over?" - 2nd KingPin A
« Reply #3 on: Jul 19th, 2015, 2:48pm »
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on Jul 19th, 2015, 11:52am, PotatoeTheCat wrote:
@DB,  
Many thanks for your question.  The answer, in one word, is "Space".  In an ideal world, I would cover your, Fritz's, Browni's & Jean's victories over Sharp, in detail.  However, the article is already over 4000 words - double the length of the average KingPin article.  And its not even about Chess!

Yeah, I just thought you might mention it in one sentence or so. Nothing big, anyway.
Quote:

I was honestly surprised at how receptive KP was to my two articles on Arimaa.  Its a nice thematic win (an exemplar of when a Camel hostage is NOT worth an additional Cat).  I hear you are based in Germany.  Perhaps there is a regional angle to the story: eg "Local hero defeats World-Champion crushing bot".

Hehe, sure. Grin
I doubt anyone knows Arimaa here. Though it would of course be nice to change that.
Quote:

@All,
Seriously, am I the only one who was disappointed at how little press/net coverage there was of recent important events.  I could find almost no coverage either the Sharp victory in CC or Browni victory in the WC?  Partly, the article was written in response to this gap.

Yeah, it seems the Arimaa community is rather small.  Sad
I am not sure if I agree with that no AI breakthroughs were made since some of lightvectors changes seemed rather impressive (like it searches only 5% of the moves in some positions and still covers the good ones). But I guess we will have to wait for the official paper to see how exactly it is.
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clyring
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Re: "Arimaa: Game-Over?" - 2nd KingPin A
« Reply #4 on: Jul 19th, 2015, 3:52pm »
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on Jul 19th, 2015, 2:14pm, PotatoeTheCat wrote:
@Clrying,
Sincere thanks for the point of detail.  Duly noted.
 
My comments were based on hand written notes, scribbled down while Omar/Jean/David were talking.  I tried to verify these while writing the article by replaying the broadcast, but could not find these on any obvious place on the Arimaa website (and still can't Sad).
 
However, good to hear, at any rate, that you concur that the main timbre of the broadcast comments were captured correctly.

It may be found in my event recording repository, more specifically here. Thanks to Janzert for making sure it found its way there.
 
I might also try to dispute the claim that "Jean responded that rather Sharp has actually expanded our conception of Arimaa strategy," but this one is much less clear and I give you room to make that interpretation. His initial response to this question from omar (around 24m30s) mentions differences of style rather than substance. His further remarks muddy the waters. And anyway, a one-word edit from 'strategy' to 'play' removes my doubts without much changing the color/timbre of the text.
 
I will say of my own remarks in the ceremony that they were based on the impression that sharp hasn't stretched the boundaries of general strategy very much, but rather possesses a very keen nose for danger and medium-term complications. (...in addition to its tactical prowess, which was never in question.) I also have to relate this impression with the disclaimer that its general play is so strong and its post-Challenge availability so short that it isn't yet clear which 'quite different' techniques it employs might really be strategic innovations and which are weaknesses it more than makes up for. These will become more clear once sharp2015 has publicly available for a longer period of abuse testing. In any case, it is a formidable sparring partner that will surely, at the very least, push human Arimaa execution and technique to grand new heights.
 
(Also: You didn't take notes while I was talking? The nerve! Smiley)
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