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Topic: Global Algebric Material Evaluator (Read 9107 times) |
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pago
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Re: Global Algebric Material Evaluator
« Reply #60 on: Oct 18th, 2010, 5:35am » |
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Quote:| If on any iteration Professor Mayer fails to produce a counter-example, you may publish your conjecture as having been proven true. |
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Sometimes, I have difficulties to make the differences in english between simple humor, subtile irony and “friendly” advices (I feel that your reply was a mix of all that).
Please, be indulgent Fritzlein.
I do try not to pollute this forum (I wouldn’t like to be classified in the troll category). Each time I have “published” one idea I had tried at least 10 or 20 ridiculous ideas at home before. I also tried to perform all the tests that I was able to do with Excel (It is very frustrating not been able to program)
… And remind you that when you proposed FAME evaluator in 2005 your professors Mayer were 99of9 or jdb.
Today my professors are Rednaxela, Fritzlein, aaaa, jdb… : I am flattered by the Quality and the quantity 
Now, the trial/refutation process is not a so bad process to make progress… and I am waiting for your counter-example and/or Rednaxela’s evaluation… before publishing a new idea…
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Fritzlein
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Re: Global Algebric Material Evaluator
« Reply #61 on: Oct 18th, 2010, 1:20pm » |
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on Oct 18th, 2010, 5:35am, pago wrote:| Sometimes, I have difficulties to make the differences in english between simple humor, subtile irony and “friendly” advices (I feel that your reply was a mix of all that). |
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Yes, teasing out the difference between humor, irony, sarcasm, and simpler motives for sharing is difficult even among native speakers of the same language. When there is some language barrier it is even more difficult, as below:
on Oct 18th, 2010, 5:40am, pago wrote:| Are you secretive Fritzlein ? Why have you hidden such an interesting game ? |
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Are you just being silly to talk about hiding and secrets? Or do you have a subtle agenda? If you aren't employing simple humor, what is it you want to say?
Quote:Please, be indulgent Fritzlein.
I do try not to pollute this forum (I wouldn’t like to be classified in the troll category). Each time I have “published” one idea I had tried at least 10 or 20 ridiculous ideas at home before. |
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Goodness, I don't think you are trolling or polluting at all. I thanked you three times in this thread for sharing your ideas. I was quite sincere; your deliberations on this matter are a contribution to the Arimaa community, a gift of your thoughts and your writings.
Quote:| Today my professors are Rednaxela, Fritzlein, aaaa, jdb… : I am flattered by the Quality and the quantity |
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Thus you have entirely understood the subtlety of my analogy. When the "professor" stops producing counterexamples, what does it say about the quality of the latest "proof"? Let me be explicit so that humor doesn't get in the way of communication: it only means that the "professor" has run out of energy. It doesn't mean that the last idea is good or bad, right or wrong, worthy or unworthy.
on Oct 11th, 2010, 6:52am, pago wrote:| Shall I conclude that my HERD behaves as gnus and cannot survive in the Arimaa jungle ? |
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No. In all seriousness, without humor, irony, or sarcasm, that is not what you should conclude.
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pago
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Re: Global Algebric Material Evaluator
« Reply #62 on: Oct 19th, 2010, 4:15am » |
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Quote:| If you aren't employing simple humor, what is it you want to say? |
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It was a misplaced humor but it expressed a real feeling : Currently I am using your games, Chessandgo’s games and some other strong players games from WC 2010 to test a partial positional evaluator and I do find that it is really very pleasant to replay them even if I probably understand only a tiny part of the move reasons.
Quote:| it only means that the "professor" has run out of energy. It doesn't mean that the last idea is good or bad, right or wrong, worthy or unworthy. |
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Understood.
In any case thank you for your previous comments about the evaluator. They were valuable and helped me to (hopefully) improve it. In addition when one look at the old threads of the forum, we can find other very interesting comments from you and other players about the relative value of pieces.
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JimmSlimm
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Re: Global Algebric Material Evaluator
« Reply #63 on: May 4th, 2011, 8:04am » |
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I tested GAME on games from 2011-03-01 to 2011-05-01 where both players are rated 1500+ and win is by goal, time or elimination.
170353 evaluations were made in 3131 games:
GAME: 77.95%
Then I tested a very simple evaluator, which only counts the numbers of material units left.
152883 evaluations on the same 3131 games:
79.96%
This is odd, it seems like only considering the number of material units is better than GAME, which is very unlikely imo...
Could someone try the same thing?
edit: nevermind, the second eval seems better because it didnt evaluate as many moves, just the more obvious ones
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| « Last Edit: May 4th, 2011, 4:54pm by JimmSlimm » |
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JimmSlimm
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Re: Global Algebric Material Evaluator
« Reply #64 on: May 8th, 2011, 6:31pm » |
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pago, first of all, thanks for GAME! I love it and I am using it in my bot as base for evaluation.
I would like to test HERD, trouble is I don't understand how it works.
I read the pdf and I got the excel file, but in the excel file the evaluation for HERD is always 50%, the other evaluators recognize the changes, but not HERD.
Any ideas? I am using OpenOffice for the excel file
edit: also if it would help you in your research, I could make a program that reads a big text file with game data and writes a new .txt which only said how many of each material is left after each turn or something. It would maybe make your testing easier somehow?
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| « Last Edit: May 8th, 2011, 6:38pm by JimmSlimm » |
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pago
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Re: Global Algebric Material Evaluator
« Reply #65 on: May 13th, 2011, 11:23am » |
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on May 8th, 2011, 6:31pm, JimmSlimm wrote:pago, first of all, thanks for GAME! I love it and I am using it in my bot as base for evaluation.
I would like to test HERD, trouble is I don't understand how it works.
I read the pdf and I got the excel file, but in the excel file the evaluation for HERD is always 50%, the other evaluators recognize the changes, but not HERD.
Any ideas? I am using OpenOffice for the excel file
edit: also if it would help you in your research, I could make a program that reads a big text file with game data and writes a new .txt which only said how many of each material is left after each turn or something. It would maybe make your testing easier somehow? |
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Thank you very muchfor your comments...And I would be happy if some ideas would be implemented in a bot...
1) For the Excel file, I assume that you directly tried to change the number of pieces. Try to change the colored value (yellow for gold and blue for silver). The Excel formula is linked to these value. note that you must "Take R1 before R2, C1 before C2, D1 before D2, H1 before H2..."
2) The formula implemented in the Excel file is the one given in the .pdf at the end of page 7 (it would not be so easy to recognize it just by reading Excel because I cut it in little parts).
HERD is basically a kind of generalization of GEM (the reading of GEM.pdf file should help to understand HERD.pdf).
The main difference is that HERD assumes that the lost of the 2nd horse is worse than the lost of the first one) but the basic idea of duels is identical. I also tried to bias the result according to the number of remaining rabbits to take into account the fact that one lose when he has no more rabbits.
3) I have no real idea for the reasons of the disappointing results of GAME compared to a simple evaluator. Maybe the defects of GAME that I tried to solve in the following evaluators (such as HERD) were too important.
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JimmSlimm
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Re: Global Algebric Material Evaluator
« Reply #66 on: May 13th, 2011, 4:15pm » |
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pago GAME is better than the simple evaluator I made, I just made a mistake/bug in my program when testing it the first time
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