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Topic: 2009 Arimaa Challenge (Read 7819 times) |
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99of9
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Gnobby's creator (player #314)
 
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Re: 2009 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #61 on: Mar 22nd, 2009, 3:35am » |
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In Gnobot vs ChrisB, on the final move gnobot's own log cuts off sometime after 69.3s. I can't tell how it died, but it looks similar to how clueless lost one of those times to aaaa (the one that jdb accepted as a loss).
One oddity is that both gnobot and clueless timed out within minutes of each other, but this could well be a coincidence, especially since clueless' logs look different. They were both playing silver, but I think clueless was playing from gold.arimaa.com.
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Fritzlein
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Re: 2009 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #62 on: Mar 22nd, 2009, 6:36am » |
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This is obviously a concern, not only for determining which bot qualifies for the Challenge, but also for the Challenge games themselves. What do we do when a bot times out in the middle of a Challenge game?
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Arimabuff
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Re: 2009 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #63 on: Mar 22nd, 2009, 11:38am » |
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on Mar 22nd, 2009, 6:36am, Fritzlein wrote:| This is obviously a concern, not only for determining which bot qualifies for the Challenge, but also for the Challenge games themselves. What do we do when a bot times out in the middle of a Challenge game? |
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That would look ugly; after all the challenge games are a showcase for Arimaa to the people who've never played it... I for one took a look at the chalenge games before I even started to learn the rules. I wanted to see what a top level Arimaa game looked like...
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Fritzlein
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Re: 2009 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #64 on: Mar 22nd, 2009, 2:29pm » |
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on Mar 22nd, 2009, 11:38am, Arimabuff wrote:| I for one took a look at the chalenge games before I even started to learn the rules. I wanted to see what a top level Arimaa game looked like... |
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I also looked at the 2004 Challenge games before I ever played on the server. The Challenge is an obvious place for students of the game to start.
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RonWeasley
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Re: 2009 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #65 on: Mar 23rd, 2009, 4:31am » |
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on Mar 21st, 2009, 3:37pm, Fritzlein wrote:| Ron, you still haven't said what happens if aaaa doesn't resume the game from the timed out position. I assume it doesn't count, and neither does aaaa's game with the same color against Gnobot, but it would be nice to hear that explicitly if that is your ruling. |
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Right. aaaa's games would not count if the completed game is not played.
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RonWeasley
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Re: 2009 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #66 on: Mar 23rd, 2009, 4:35am » |
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on Mar 22nd, 2009, 6:36am, Fritzlein wrote:| This is obviously a concern, not only for determining which bot qualifies for the Challenge, but also for the Challenge games themselves. What do we do when a bot times out in the middle of a Challenge game? |
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If this happens in a Challenge game and the server/network is at fault, the game must be continued from the position of the fault.
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99of9
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Re: 2009 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #67 on: Mar 23rd, 2009, 6:19am » |
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Joe tried to play a bot today, and got "bots not available". Do you know what this is about omar?
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Arimabuff
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Re: 2009 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #68 on: Mar 23rd, 2009, 6:59am » |
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on Mar 23rd, 2009, 6:19am, 99of9 wrote:| Joe tried to play a bot today, and got "bots not available". Do you know what this is about omar? |
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Omar took the bots off before the C&G/Fritz game; he must have forgotten to put them back on.
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Fritzlein
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Re: 2009 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #69 on: Mar 23rd, 2009, 7:31am » |
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on Mar 22nd, 2009, 2:12am, 99of9 wrote:
Ron, have you ruled on these games yet? Must they also be played out from the point of the timeout?
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99of9
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Re: 2009 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #70 on: Mar 23rd, 2009, 1:04pm » |
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on Mar 23rd, 2009, 7:31am, Fritzlein wrote:
Ron, have you ruled on these games yet? Must they also be played out from the point of the timeout? |
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I can't prove that the gnobot one is the server's fault, so I think it has to stand. Jeff accepted one that looked the same as this earlier against aaaa.
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Janzert
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Re: 2009 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #71 on: Mar 23rd, 2009, 2:02pm » |
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In game 100646 woh vs. clueless, the bot interface leaves the game while waiting for move 9g from woh. I really don't know what could cause this other than the interface script receiving a HUP or INT signal. Unfortunately I believe the script only reports the receipt of such a signal to stdio and not to any written log, so I can't confirm this. I seem to recall that possibly the manager script Omar uses does log everything received from the interface script so he may be able to check it there.
From the net log and gnobot's own log it looks like in game 100645 that gnobot exited without giving a move back to the interface script. It seems like quite a coincidence that this occured within 15 seconds of clueless' interface exiting though.
I also went back and looked at game 99969, the other timeout by Clueless against aaaa. This looks much the same as Gnobot's 100645 timeout, from the net log and clueless' own log it seems that the bot exits without sending a move to the interface.
Looking at the timestamp when the bot interface leaves the game for each of these timeouts we get this:
99969 Sun Mar 15 04:02:03 2009
100645 Sun Mar 22 04:02:19 2009
100646 Sun Mar 22 04:02:04 2009
To me the most likely explanation at this point for all of this is a cron job running at 4am on Sunday mornings that is sending a SIGHUP to the bot script.
Janzert
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| « Last Edit: Mar 23rd, 2009, 3:12pm by Janzert » |
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Arimabuff
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Re: 2009 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #72 on: Mar 23rd, 2009, 2:08pm » |
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on Mar 23rd, 2009, 1:04pm, 99of9 wrote:
I can't prove that the gnobot one is the server's fault, so I think it has to stand. Jeff accepted one that looked the same as this earlier against aaaa. |
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I don't think we're still at this stage. Once Ron has ruled that the game should be continued. It's no longer aaaa's choice whether to play the game or not. If aaaa refuses to play then he forfeits it. Otherwise Omar may as well replace Ron by aaaa.
It doesn't make sense to have someone make a decision and then let the player choose whether he will go along with that decision. It's rather easy to set up. You start the game at a certain time after having given to aaaa the time and date (assuming he's unwilling to give one himself to Omar), if after the game starts aaaa doesn't join then he'll have forfeited it and lost that way.
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| « Last Edit: Mar 23rd, 2009, 2:13pm by Arimabuff » |
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Arimabuff
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Re: 2009 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #73 on: Mar 23rd, 2009, 2:17pm » |
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on Mar 23rd, 2009, 4:31am, RonWeasley wrote:
Right. aaaa's games would not count if the completed game is not played. |
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But isn't that rewarding aaaa for refusing your first ruling?
He refuses to continue the game and therefore he wins.
Somehow that doesn't smell right....
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99of9
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Re: 2009 Arimaa Challenge
« Reply #74 on: Mar 23rd, 2009, 2:45pm » |
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on Mar 23rd, 2009, 2:02pm, Janzert wrote:
Looking at timestamp that the bot interface leaves the game for each of these timeouts we get this:
99969 Sun Mar 15 04:02:03 2009
100645 Sun Mar 22 04:02:19 2009
100646 Sun Mar 22 04:02:04 2009
To me the most likely explanation at this point for all of this is a cron job running at 4am on Sunday mornings that is sending a SIGHUP to the bot script.
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Oh wow, nice work Janzert. That is too much evidence to be assumed a coincidence.
Patrick, the game against aaaa I was referring to is this one that Janzert is analysing from quite a while back (game 99969). I'm not talking about the one he has been asked to continue. (Although now he will probably have two games to continue! My question is, does he get to pick and choose which one he continues, or is it randomly assigned.)
However, may I convey my sympathy to aaaa at this point. He has been subjected to a ridiculous number of replays. It seems this is partly a problem related to the time of day he prefers to play!
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| « Last Edit: Mar 23rd, 2009, 2:49pm by 99of9 » |
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