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Topic: 2011 World Championship (Read 21183 times) |
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The_Jeh
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Re: 2011 World Championship
« Reply #165 on: Feb 6th, 2011, 5:10pm » |
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Fritz, I've already played Sconibulus.
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99of9
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Re: 2011 World Championship
« Reply #166 on: Feb 6th, 2011, 5:24pm » |
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on Feb 6th, 2011, 4:49pm, Fritzlein wrote:| Here's where the trouble starts. Both Adanac and I would expect the algorithm to next try to pair 99of9 with jdb, and work on down through the bottom half of the 3-2 players in order, until finding a suitable match. Omar's algorithm, however, skips jdb, and first tries to pair 99of9 with omar, yeilding |
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I've already played jdb. So I think the algorithm did the right thing at this stage.
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Fritzlein
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Re: 2011 World Championship
« Reply #167 on: Feb 6th, 2011, 7:16pm » |
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on Feb 6th, 2011, 5:10pm, The_Jeh wrote:| Fritz, I've already played Sconibulus. |
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Oopsies; that's what I get for trying to do it by hand. Then the pairing I'm proposing should be
1 Fritzlein 3 chessandgo
2 rabbits 4 Tuks
5 Adanac 6 Nombril
7 hanzack 14 woh
8 99of9 13 omar
9 Nevermind 12 jdb
10 The_Jeh 16 ArifSyed
11 Hippo 15 Sconibulus
17 megamau 22 722caasi
18 Harren 24 qswanger
19 ocmiente 23 ChrisB
20 knarl 25 ginrunner
21 Heyckie 26 naveed
27 Rad 29 b599
30 oali 31 Belteshazzar
28 beancrisp 32 ddyer
Actually, it isn't a specific pairing I am proposing, so much as an algorithm. It is the algorithm that Adanac and I both thought was the instantiated algorithm. If you look at what Adanac was posting in the chat room just at the time my game with rabbits was beginning, he did it right:
Quote:2011-02-06 12:15:22 Adanac If Fritzlein & The_Jeh win (these are unofficial by the way – but I'm pretty sure I have this right):
2011-02-06 12:15:26 Adanac Fritzlein-Chessandgo, rabbits-Tuks, Adanac-Nombril
2011-02-06 12:15:32 Adanac hanzack-woh, 99of9-omar, Nevermind-jdb, The_Jeh-ArifSyed, Hippo-Sconibulus |
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| « Last Edit: Feb 6th, 2011, 7:18pm by Fritzlein » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: 2011 World Championship
« Reply #168 on: Feb 6th, 2011, 7:18pm » |
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on Feb 6th, 2011, 5:24pm, 99of9 wrote:| I've already played jdb. So I think the algorithm did the right thing at this stage. |
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Well, it did the right thing not to pair you with jdb, but it did the wrong thing to not even consider pairing you with jdb. So, yes, it didn't make a difference in the output at that stage, but temporarily forgetting about jdb did change Nevermind's pairing. Note that you are paired with omar according to both algorithms; what goes haywire is who jdb is paired with.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 6th, 2011, 7:20pm by Fritzlein » |
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99of9
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Re: 2011 World Championship
« Reply #169 on: Feb 6th, 2011, 9:44pm » |
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Ok, I agree with you that your algorithm is more sensible, and that a skipped player should be tested first for the next opponent and not left to the end. It's a tough call as to whether it should be implemented immediately or next year, so I'll await Ron's decision with interest. I'm glad my opponent doesn't change either way - I played omar in the championship in 2007, 2009, 2010, and it's always nice to play the game's creator!
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Fritzlein
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Re: 2011 World Championship
« Reply #170 on: Feb 6th, 2011, 10:30pm » |
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I'm glad you keep coming back every year, 99of9. You, Omar, and Naveed are the only three players to have participated in all eight Arimaa World Championships so far.
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99of9
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Re: 2011 World Championship
« Reply #171 on: Feb 7th, 2011, 6:39am » |
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on Feb 6th, 2011, 10:30pm, Fritzlein wrote:| You, Omar, and Naveed are the only three players to have participated in all eight Arimaa World Championships so far. |
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It depends if you count the Open Classic  ... I'll be lucky if I can keep up that record this year.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 7th, 2011, 6:46am by 99of9 » |
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RonWeasley
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Re: 2011 World Championship
« Reply #172 on: Feb 7th, 2011, 10:05am » |
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on Feb 6th, 2011, 7:16pm, Fritzlein wrote:
Then the pairing I'm proposing should be
1 Fritzlein 3 chessandgo
2 rabbits 4 Tuks
5 Adanac 6 Nombril
7 hanzack 14 woh
8 99of9 13 omar
9 Nevermind 12 jdb
10 The_Jeh 16 ArifSyed
11 Hippo 15 Sconibulus
17 megamau 22 722caasi
18 Harren 24 qswanger
19 ocmiente 23 ChrisB
20 knarl 25 ginrunner
21 Heyckie 26 naveed
27 Rad 29 b599
30 oali 31 Belteshazzar
28 beancrisp 32 ddyer
Actually, it isn't a specific pairing I am proposing, so much as an algorithm. It is the algorithm that Adanac and I both thought was the instantiated algorithm. If you look at what Adanac was posting in the chat room just at the time my game with rabbits was beginning, he did it right:
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Because nobody has had to commit to a posted time yet, I want to use the pairings from the algorithm we prefer. They would be the pairings quoted above.
If this question were asked later when players had already begun making plans based on the scheduler, I would use the inferior pairings. So Omar, please use the quoted pairing above.
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Adanac
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Re: 2011 World Championship
« Reply #173 on: Feb 7th, 2011, 10:07am » |
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on Feb 6th, 2011, 4:49pm, Fritzlein wrote:
I feel that the principles of Swiss pairing have been violated enough to warrant replacing the algorithm-generated pairings of
1 Fritzlein 3 chessandgo
2 rabbits 4 Tuks
5 Adanac 6 Nombril
7 hanzack 14 woh
8 99of9 13 omar
9 Nevermind 15 Sconibulus
10 The_Jeh 16 ArifSyed
11 Hippo 12 jdb
17 megamau 22 722caasi
18 Harren 24 qswanger
19 ocmiente 25 ginrunner
20 knarl 26 naveed
21 Heyckie 27 Rad
23 ChrisB 30 oali
28 beancrisp 31 Belteshazzar
29 b599 32 ddyer
with the slightly-smarter-algorithm-generated pairings of
1 Fritzlein 3 chessandgo
2 rabbits 4 Tuks
5 Adanac 6 Nombril
7 hanzack 14 woh
8 99of9 13 omar
9 Nevermind 12 jdb
10 The_Jeh 15 Sconibulus
11 Hippo 16 ArifSyed
17 megamau 22 722caasi
18 Harren 24 qswanger
19 ocmiente 23 ChrisB
20 knarl 25 ginrunner
21 Heyckie 26 naveed
27 Rad 29 b599
30 oali 31 Belteshazzar
28 beancrisp 32 ddyer
On the other hand, expediency may again dictate simply going forward with what the software has already spit out. Ron, I await your ruling. Thanks in advance. |
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This original post is worth a bump just in case RonWeasley didn't see yesterday's excellent analyis by Fritzlein. Since the players will be receiving their tentative game times within 24 hours we should get a ruling on this issue as quickly as possible.
This is probably one of those divisive issues where some people will think it's fair to stick with whichever pairings are procued by the algorithm while others would prefer the TD to intervene and make changes where he deems it appropriate. I'm very interested to hear what the ruling will be.
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Adanac
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Re: 2011 World Championship
« Reply #174 on: Feb 7th, 2011, 10:09am » |
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on Feb 7th, 2011, 10:05am, RonWeasley wrote:
Because nobody has had to commit to a posted time yet, I want to use the pairings from the algorithm we prefer. They would be the pairings quoted above.
If this question were asked later when players had already begun making plans based on the scheduler, I would use the inferior pairings. So Omar, please use the quoted pairing above. |
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You beat me by 2 minutes! Thanks for the ruling Ron, I'll go ahead and update the Wiki today.
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RonWeasley
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Re: 2011 World Championship
« Reply #175 on: Feb 7th, 2011, 10:34am » |
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on Feb 7th, 2011, 10:09am, Adanac wrote:
You beat me by 2 minutes! |
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I'm glad I did. It makes me look less clueless than usual. 
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Fritzlein
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Re: 2011 World Championship
« Reply #176 on: Feb 7th, 2011, 2:22pm » |
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Thanks for the ruling, Ron. If there are issues like this in the fourth year of using a given format, you will have your work cut out for you next year, when we are in the first year of a new format!
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Adanac
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Re: 2011 World Championship
« Reply #177 on: Feb 7th, 2011, 4:28pm » |
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I was quite disappointed to see that we've already passed the deadline for the Spectator Contest and only 12 people signed up. What happened?? The Open Classic doubled in size this year while the Spectator Contest shrunk in half. 
Edit: Oh, I'm pretty sure this was the first year in which Omar added an entry fee. That's probably the reason.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 7th, 2011, 4:30pm by Adanac » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: 2011 World Championship
« Reply #178 on: Feb 7th, 2011, 5:26pm » |
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on Feb 7th, 2011, 4:28pm, Adanac wrote:| I was quite disappointed to see that we've already passed the deadline for the Spectator Contest and only 12 people signed up. |
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Omar probably set the deadline for registration based on a five-round preliminary like we had last year. I assume he will accept registrations until the finals actually begin.
Nevertheless, you are right; the lack of a registration fee last year made the contest something like a free raffle. Why not sign up? And everyone did. This year it will be more like a poker game where you shouldn't bring money to the table unless you are better than the other players.
I would pay $10 just for the pleasure of playing in a great Arimaa tournament with no prizes (and in fact I have done so for the Postal Mixer), but for the Spectator Contest the money prizes are most of the pleasure. Why would I pay $10 to make guesses about the games? I can guess for free without paying a registration fee.
The Spectator Contest as currently structured has appeal mostly for gamblers. And indeed, charging an entry fee for a guessing game probably brings it under the legal definition of gambling, unless guessing move numbers can be defended as a "game of skill", in which case the entry fee is no different than the entry fee to the World Championship itself. Shhhh... don't tell the authorities.
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| « Last Edit: Feb 7th, 2011, 5:35pm by Fritzlein » |
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99of9
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Re: 2011 World Championship
« Reply #179 on: Feb 7th, 2011, 6:00pm » |
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I find the new rules of the spectator contest too difficult for someone in a bad timezone for viewing games live.
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