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Topic: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting (Read 12673 times) |
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Nombril
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2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting
« on: Dec 31st, 2010, 12:58am » |
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I thought it might be worth starting a thread for WC audio and written coverage. I have some general questions, and then expect we could use this thread to post what games are likely to have live commentary.
Audio Commentary:
Radio vs. Teamspeak?
I know a few players were able to listen to the 'radio' that are not able to use Teamspeak. So for any games that Omar is available to turn on the radio, I suggest we make that available. (Omar - were you able to update that page to show how many people were listening? Is there a way for someone to see if it is 'on'? Also, we'll need a link somewhere so people know where to find it.)
Anyone willing to give commentary or post-game interviews will need to have Teamspeak.
Commentators:
Fritz and I are both planning on doing some commentary if the games are played at times when we are available. How many other people are interested in doing lead or supporting commentary? (I do understand Fritz will draw a larger crowd - but I hope I'm correct that there are also people interested in listening to other commentators.)
Recordings:
Are there any volunteers for doing recordings, especially matching commentary to the 'video' of game moves? I know there has been a discussion (and trial and error) about programs/settings/file size/etc... but this isn't my forte. An expert in this area could post a summary here so we have it for reference...
Security:
If the radio is used, I don't think we have any control over who is listening. With the delay for event games, specific moves won't help, but long term strategy discussion would. Are we comfortable with the honor system, or is this a reason to limit the commentary to Teamspeak, with people in Teamspeak being required to validate in the chat room that they have logged into Teamspeak?
Schedule:
Last year we just posted on the commentary thread what games we would be giving commentary for. Do we need anything more organized than that, or should we just keep going with the loose planning? Is there anyway to put a mark in the gameroom by the Scheduled Games we expect to have commentary for?
Event Reporting
I see the 'Event Reporter' is still listed as TBD. I certainly enjoyed reading the reports last year - Adanac, have you been volunteered to head this up again? If whoever does take up this role wants help - I could write up a report on roughly 1 game per week. I'll need some input on how to make the diagrams. Is anyone else interested in leading or helping with the written reporting?
Chat Room
Security:
Are there any concerns about our normal chatter about suggested moves, strategy, etc? I assume we should request the players to be logged out. After this are we comfortable that the delay and the players' honor will keep everything above board? I just thought I would double check, to make sure everyone is clear about the protocol and what is accepted.
Anything else? I'm excited by the strong turn out, and am looking forward to some good games to watch.
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Hippo
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Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting
« Reply #1 on: Dec 31st, 2010, 3:52am » |
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I would prefere archive fetching to be delayed by say 10 minutes (I hope it's at least logged). And I would vote against discussing long term options in radio brodcasting.
(Yes, I hope we all play on honor base, but it's better not to simplify/provoke the opposite.)
... I am not sure with my spoken English to comment on TeamSpeak, but I suppose I would use my "move generator" in chat. May be some would be generated well  .
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rbarreira
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Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting
« Reply #2 on: Dec 31st, 2010, 8:56am » |
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on Dec 31st, 2010, 3:52am, Hippo wrote:| I would prefere archive fetching to be delayed by say 10 minutes |
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That seems like a very good idea to me, it might have some benefit and I don't see any downside. It's probably not so hard to implement either, just don't send any messages with timestamp > current_time () - 10 minutes.
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| « Last Edit: Dec 31st, 2010, 8:58am by rbarreira » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting
« Reply #3 on: Dec 31st, 2010, 9:21am » |
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on Dec 31st, 2010, 12:58am, Nombril wrote:Security:
If the radio is used, I don't think we have any control over who is listening. With the delay for event games, specific moves won't help, but long term strategy discussion would. Are we comfortable with the honor system, or is this a reason to limit the commentary to Teamspeak, with people in Teamspeak being required to validate in the chat room that they have logged into Teamspeak? |
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I am comfortable with the honor system, because cheating won't help much. Hearing two-move-old suggestions for long-range strategy is not very useful. Usually the timing is no longer good two moves later, and also if you couldn't think of a plan until two moves too late, you probably can't execute it properly anyway without the help of specific move suggestions. Perhaps we can just ask commentators not to suggest specific moves in tactically forced lines that extend beyond two moves; this seems like a relatively small sacrifice given how seldom tactically forced lines extend that far.
This is a case where the potential damage from cheating seems negligible compared to the benefit of unfettered commentary. I would not want the commentators to hold back from saying interesting, instructive things about long-range strategy if it is unlikely to help a cheater anyway.
Quote:| I'll need some input on how to make the diagrams. |
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It will be obvious to you how to do it if you edit a page with a diagram, cut and paste that diagram into your own commentary, and then modify the diagram to reflect the position you are commenting on.
Quote:Chat Room
Security:
Are there any concerns about our normal chatter about suggested moves, strategy, etc? I assume we should request the players to be logged out. After this are we comfortable that the delay and the players' honor will keep everything above board? I just thought I would double check, to make sure everyone is clear about the protocol and what is accepted. |
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As above, I think the two-move delay takes care of most problems. Note that an extra ten-minute delay on the radio will be pointless without a similar extra delay on chat.
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Hippo
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Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting
« Reply #4 on: Dec 31st, 2010, 9:42am » |
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OK, 2 moves delay could be sufficient for most of the cases,
and it could be hard to concentrate both to the game and to analyse the discussion ... especially when someone asks ... what about this move ... and after 4 minutes the discussion continues ... no it is not good because of ...
So I am OK with it as well.
Connected question is ... Will we allow watching/listening the discussion (of players's game)? I still think it should remain forbidden.
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| « Last Edit: Dec 31st, 2010, 9:43am by Hippo » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting
« Reply #5 on: Dec 31st, 2010, 9:50am » |
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on Dec 31st, 2010, 9:42am, Hippo wrote:| Will we allow watching/listening the discussion (of players's game)? I still think it should remain forbidden. |
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Yes, I think it should be forbidden, although it can't be prevented. Normally I dislike unenforceable rules, but in this case cheaters would gain so little from cheating that I don't mind the honor system.
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Nombril
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Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting
« Reply #6 on: Dec 31st, 2010, 2:19pm » |
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on Dec 31st, 2010, 3:52am, Hippo wrote:| ... I am not sure with my spoken English to comment on TeamSpeak, but I suppose I would use my "move generator" in chat. May be some would be generated well . |
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We are an international community - I don't think anyone will think less of you for not speaking perfect English! In any case, I'm certainly happy to have extra ideas to talk about, whether it is with a supporting voice or moves in the chat room.
on Dec 31st, 2010, 9:21am, Fritzlein wrote:| As above, I think the two-move delay takes care of most problems. Note that an extra ten-minute delay on the radio will be pointless without a similar extra delay on chat. |
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I think the 10min delay was for the chat archive, since we can't see who is retrieving it. A 10 min makes sense here, since the chat doesn't know how the game is progressing. Radio and live chat will have the two move delay.
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omar
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Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting
« Reply #7 on: Jan 1st, 2011, 3:27pm » |
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Thanks for starting this Eric.
I agree with Karl that the 2 move delay should be enough to prevent players for finding useful moves in the commentary. Although some long term strategic suggestions might still be useful two moves later.
The players should logout of the chat room and TeamSpeak. The tournament rules state that:
"Players are forbidden from using advice or suggestions from others or programs while playing the games. Any player doing so will be eliminated from the championship matches and will not be allowed to take part in future matches for two years."
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omar
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Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting
« Reply #8 on: Jan 1st, 2011, 6:41pm » |
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With so many players signed up for the WC tournament this year, it would be great if the experience for the spectators could be made more enjoyable. Providing written highlights of the games and live commentary has definitely made the event more enjoyable in the past. But it takes a lot of effort from many people to make this happen.
Karl (Fritzlein) initially started the whole idea of providing written highlights of the games by doing weekly postings about the WC tournament on his blog. We enjoyed reading them so much that we asked him to do it on a regular basis. In recent years Greg (Adanac) has taken on the role of providing event coverage with the help of other members of the community. As the number of games in each round of the Open Classic with be twice what we had last year, it will require even more help this year to provide event coverage. Writing highlights of the games is a great way to improve your Arimaa skills while making a useful contribution to the Arimaa community. Please post here if you would be able to help with writing highlights for some of the games. Greg would you be able to lead and coordinate the effort this year?
Last year was the first time we tried having live commentary during the games. It turned out much better then I ever expected; although we have much to learn and improve. Karl seems to have a talent for doing commentary and draws quite a crowd. He has a good way of providing expert analysis of the situation without losing the audience by making it sound too technical. Many others helped with the commentary including Jean (chessandgo), Greg (Adanac), Ned (RonWeasley), Eric (Nombril), Joel (megajester) and myself. Although Joel only commentated in the last game we discovered he has a great voice and a great nack for being an anchor. I hope he will be able to help out more this year. I also think that there are many others who could help out with commentary and just need to step up and give it a try. Even if you can't provide expert analysis of the situation like the top players, you can still be an anchor and provide support to the main commentator. It really helps the main commentators to have someone give them a little break and fill in with general information about the game, mentions of the sponsors and even ask specific questions. With many more games going on this year especially during the Open Classic there will be many opportunities to provide commentary. So I hope we have more people who give it a try.
Another area where we can use help is with recording the audio and video of commented games. I've found that using Audacity is best for capturing audio and still haven't found the best way to capture audio+video although I get by using CamStudio. It would be good to have multiple people do the recording so that if one does not turn out good, there is a backup.
I want to give a big Thanks to everyone who signed up for the WC tournament. I am really excited about this event since this is the first time we've had this many players. I know there are many who were not able to participate due to time constraints. Perhaps they could still take an active role in the event by helping out with some of the items mentioned above whenever time permits. With more people providing a little support here and there I think the event will be enjoyable for everyone.
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omar
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Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting
« Reply #9 on: Jan 1st, 2011, 7:40pm » |
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Perhaps we can coordinate the event coverage using this shared spread sheet.
http://bit.ly/ghAOnC
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| « Last Edit: Jan 1st, 2011, 7:42pm by omar » |
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Adanac
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Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting
« Reply #10 on: Jan 1st, 2011, 8:43pm » |
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on Jan 1st, 2011, 7:40pm, omar wrote:
Excellent idea Omar, especially with the large number of games in the Open Classic. That was a pleasant surprise after being stuck at 18 player for so long!
I can be a co-ordinator for the Wiki tournament page. I'll update the standings and write a few reviews but I won't have enough time to do more than that this year. Given the size of this year's tournament I think we should write short game summaries (2-3 sentences) for each game but maybe have a couple of "feature" games each week that have more in-depth analysis and diagrams. It would also be great if one of the bot developers could help with the "feature" game analysis. In past years they've found some brilliant, non-intutive moves that really enhanced the game reviews.
I hope to have enough time available to be a live broadcaster perhaps once per week. I think a 2-move delay is enough that we can have open radio broadcasts. Anyone that's hoping to advance to the Top 8 by eavesdropping on their own games is going to be sorely disappointed by the outcome. That could even be more distracting than beneficial. The only thing I don't like about the delays is that it causes the games to end abruptly but it's not that big of a deal.
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omar
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Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting
« Reply #11 on: Jan 4th, 2011, 7:15am » |
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on Jan 1st, 2011, 8:43pm, Adanac wrote:
I can be a co-ordinator for the Wiki tournament page. I'll update the standings and write a few reviews but I won't have enough time to do more than that this year.
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Thanks Greg. Your help is much appreciated.
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omar
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Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting
« Reply #12 on: Jan 4th, 2011, 7:16am » |
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I've added the list of games for round 1 to the shared the event coverage sheet. Please try to help out with writing game highlights.
http://bit.ly/ghAOnC
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Fritzlein
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Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting
« Reply #13 on: Jan 4th, 2011, 10:03am » |
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I have signed up for back-to-back commentary on Saturday morning, i.e. Harren vs. hanzack and chessandgo vs. megamau. I hope my voice holds out!
In principle I have nothing against a co-commentator, but I think that with sixteen games we should first try to spread out our efforts to have as many games as possible with at least some commentary rather than fewer games with super-awesome commentary. The more games that have someone giving some thoughts, the more we sustain the sociable, conversational, participatory atmosphere of the World Championship.
On the other hand, I realize that commentating chessandgo's game is a real plum job, and I am not trying to exclude anyone else from having a share of the World Champion's game, the game that is likely to have the most spectators. Yes, for someone who is trying out commentary for the first time it might be less intimidating to practice on a game with lower-rated players and a smaller audience, but I personally feel the allure of the limelight, so I don't want to shove anyone else aside.
For this reason, if anyone else wants to commentate on the two games that I have claimed, please just sign up, and I will choose other games for my commentary. Don't be bashful about taking the spots that are best for you; I am happy to fill in to keep the commentary spread around and to not hog the best spots.
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| « Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2011, 10:22am by Fritzlein » |
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ocmiente
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Re: 2011 WC - Commentary and Reporting
« Reply #14 on: Jan 4th, 2011, 9:26pm » |
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I don't know if I'm going to be up early enough on Saturday morning to record the commentary. If anyone else wants to do that, here's what I do:
1. Connect to TeamSpeak, and make sure you can hear the speaker.
2. Click on the Tools > Start Recording menu item. The program will ask you for a file location. Once you do that and click OK, the recording will begin.
3. When the commentary is over, click Tools > Stop Recording. That's about it...
The problem with this is that the file you get will be huge. Something like 700MB or so, depending on the length of the commentary.
So, I downloaded Format Factory, which is a free program for converting various sound file formats. Use this to convert the wav file to an mp3. You need to click on the Audio button or tab on the left, then select All to MP3. A window will open. Click Add file in the upper right and select the wav file you just created from TeamSpeak. Then you can click on the Output Settings button to tweak the compression as you like. I usually just select the "Low Quality" setting in the drop down near the top left. Then click OK, and OK again in the other window. You should see a line in the main window that has your file ready for conversion. Click the Start button, and your file should be much smaller as an MP3 than it was as a wav file.
When that's done, I let Omar know how to get it, and he links it to the game. So if you get far enough that you have an mp3 file, I recommend just contacting Omar and asking him what to do with it.
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