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Topic: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest (Read 22540 times) |
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jdb
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #15 on: Sep 14th, 2010, 3:00pm » |
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on Sep 14th, 2010, 2:44pm, Tuks wrote:| how exactly do you use his server? i downloaded the "server" file but have no idea what to do next, the only option that seems to have the ability to execute a command is "get game" in the htdocs folder but when i initiate it using my mac terminal it just gives me an error message. |
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This is a link to the forum thread about the server.
http://www.ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=424
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chessandgo
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #16 on: Sep 14th, 2010, 3:03pm » |
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on Sep 12th, 2010, 10:26pm, Janzert wrote:
I'm not completely convinced this game has as much depth as the previous contest but it should be quite fun. There's also been quite a few of technical difficulties at the start of the contest, but hopefully that will smooth out soon.
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Wow, just reading the rules this game seems a lot more diffcult to me than tron ... Not that I know anything about either game though  Looks really fun in any case, I had never heard about it.
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Hippo
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #17 on: Sep 14th, 2010, 6:31pm » |
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Sorry I have not read full the thread ... so may be all thoughts are already included.
So basics:
1) From the long perspective who has higher growth wins.
2) Attacking opponent's plannet with small number of ships does not cause problems as it costs this number of ships both sides. So with higher production ratio there is no problem to do that.
3) Attacking neutral planets may be risky ... you must hold it long enough to produce half of the number of invested ships (in that case it would cost you the same as your opponent).
So especially planets whose distance to opponent is at most one turn higher than our.
For nearer planets one could sent sufficient amount to conquer and react to opponent's moves not to let him to conquer it. Bigger the difference safer to conquer it.
4) It's very important to look at the opponent's moves, especially conquering neutral planets to gain
from badly invested ships.
5) When your base is far away from the perspective planets, it could be good to sent almost all your ships there as sending them further would be much faster.
6) Bunch of planets near one another is much more difficult to conquer as they could redistribute their ships in response to attacks. The growth ratio of the whole attacking and defending system should be taken into account.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2010, 7:21pm by Hippo » |
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jdb
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #18 on: Sep 14th, 2010, 7:14pm » |
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on Sep 14th, 2010, 6:31pm, Hippo wrote:
3) Attacking neutral planets may be risky ... you must hold it long enough to produce half of the number of invested ships (in that case it would cost you the same as your opponent).
So especially planets whose distance to opponent is at most one turn higher than our.
For nearer planets one could sent sufficient amount to conquer and react to opponent's moves not to let him to conquer it. Bigger the difference safer to conquer it.
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I believe one must hold the neutral planet long enough to get back all the invested ships.
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Hippo
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #19 on: Sep 14th, 2010, 7:20pm » |
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on Sep 14th, 2010, 7:14pm, jdb wrote:
I believe one must hold the neutral planet long enough to get back all the invested ships.
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Oh yes, you are right silly me ... I both added the produced ships and subtracted them from opponent's ...
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| « Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2010, 7:21pm by Hippo » |
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Rednaxela
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #20 on: Sep 14th, 2010, 8:21pm » |
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Here are couple thoughts I've had which I don't think have came up yet:
1) If a planet of yours can get reinforcements in shorter notice than enemies can attack it, then don't bother leaving any ships on it at end of turn.
- Justification: Freeing up the force for the "front lines" is valuable and there's no reason to waste any resources defending a planet that you can get reinforcements to quicker than the opponent can attack it.
- Cautionary note: Be careful. Don't assume any allied planet can send reinforcements. Consider how many units the other planets can afford to spare (but include growth and anticipated arrivals in that)
2) Similarly, attacking an enemy planet which is closer to reinforcements than you are, should be a last resort.
- Justification: It may not be as risky as a neutral planet, but it's useless unless you have either vastly superior numbers or are trying to imbalance a 'barricade'.
Hmm... thinking about it some... It may be useful to calculate what I'd call "tiered quotas/budgets" for planets. For example, for every non-neutral planet, calculating the number of additional ships required to hold OR capture the planet:
1) Assuming the enemy doesn't send anything to it beyond what's already in flight
2) Assuming the enemy keeps sending a similar amount to what it has in the last few turns
3) Assuming the enemy sends as much as it can afford to send
If the planet is one you can afford to send units from, or is an enemy planet you don't need to send more to, then the numbers could be negative.
Based on those numbers, one should be able to tune a function to estimate "probability of holding/capturing" for a given number of ships you send (or if negative, remove). I think calculating both "worst case", "best case" and "reasonably expected case" are all valuable.
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Hippo
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #21 on: Sep 15th, 2010, 1:39am » |
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I agree expect the attacking enemy issue. Attacking enemy means both players ship total is reduced by the same amount. Lesser that amount is, smaller are the possibilities. So with higer growth ratio you can attack enemy almost arbitrary. The only condition one should be afraid of is losing a planet so your grow ratio felt under opponents. So maintain safe amount required to defend your planets and to retake neutral planets on the frontier and sent excess ships to nearest valuable enough opponent plannet.
Interesting case is starting position with opponents nearby and only expensive planets nearby. In that case sending all ships on opponent should be considered.
This reduces the game to starting without ships so the growing ratio is the only factor. If opponent sent at most the number of ships created during the transport he won the openning as you didn't conquer his planet and you colonize neutral planets later than him. Of course if he sended ships to neutral planets whose you could not recapture.
So you have 3 options ... full charge to opponent, small charge(s) to cheap safe neutral planet, higher charge to gain high growing ratio quickly (to safe neutral planets). It's stone, paper, scissors there what option to select.
OK, the third option could be losing to both other in the case sending remaining ships to opponent's planet on 2nd turn leads to it's capture... of course the grow ratio of conquered neutral planets and the waste of time till they are conquered should be considered. There could be case sending all ships to bunch of connected neutral planets is better starting option.
Uff it is nontrivial.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2010, 2:00am by Hippo » |
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jdb
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #22 on: Sep 15th, 2010, 8:31am » |
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So I need a method/formula for deciding which neutral planets to capture.
This analysis will use map88.txt from the contest.
The distance between the starting planets is 8 turns.
The following planets can be captured first. They can also be held forever, even if the enemy attacks with everything. There is no point in sending troops to a neutral planet if it can't be held.
Planet,Troops,Growth,Distance
A,8,5,6
B,67,5,8
C,4,4,14
D,31,5,4
E,30,5,7
So there are 5 neutral planets that can be taken.
There are only 40 troops available from the home planet, since the starting worlds are 8 steps apart. (The enemy could send 100 troops towards the home planet on turn 1, so 60 must remain to guard the home planet)
The question is where to send the troops?
One possible ranking is the total gain in troops the planet will produce in the remainder of the game. Currently the limit is 200 turns, but any large number will work. This gives the following formula:
Fitness = (200 - Distance) * GrowthRate - Troops
Troops Required is one more than the troops on the planet.
Planet,Fitness,Troops Required
A,962,9
B,893,68
C,740,5
D,949,32
E,935,31
So is the best move to attack A and E right away?
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Hippo
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #23 on: Sep 15th, 2010, 8:41am » |
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jdb@ I cannot find the map file, can you provide link please.
I cannot find x,y coordinates. And they are generally important for the decision. Occupying planets near one another is more preferable than occuppying only single planet.
I am not sure attacking C instead of E at the openning could be better. E could be attacked on 2nd turn and C would produce units earlier. Fitness giving total number of produced ships by a planet is not accurate ...
Extreme case: suppose you could attack planet at distance 199, producing 1000000 units per turn. It would have the best fitness, but I would not invest to it.
I would probably use sum of time ship is yours as the fitness (ship at time 200-i has value i). The counterexample would still hold, ... I have not read the exact rules ... who has most ships at the end wins.
So another counterexample ... suppose all planets are in the line, the most distant is the 1000000 producing one ... You could conquer all planets on the way an achieve the last planet as well.
Oops sorry, C,4,4,14 does not mean distance 4, troops 4, growth 4  ... as it is furthest than E the choice of E is better
In A) case I would send all troops to enemy
In B) case I would send to D only on first turn and if opponent didn't sent troops to me, I would attack A following turn.
In C) case I would attack A only on first turn hoping to send all troops on enemy following turn
In D) case I would attack A,D,E at the same time being vulnerable to both A) case and C) case attacks, but better than B) case.
In E) case sent troops to D and to your enemy. If D itself would hold against enemy attacks you could sent 32 to D and 68 to enemy.
In F) sent to D, A and rest to the enemy...
I like the E variant especially in cases there is more resources around D than against home planet.
on Sep 15th, 2010, 8:31am, jdb wrote:
The following planets can be captured first. They can also be held forever, even if the enemy attacks with everything. There is no point in sending troops to a neutral planet if it can't be held.
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I don't agree, your opponent could not be passive only so his troops must operate elsewhere so the condition could not be ... don't attack what could opponent gain with all his forces. But rather don't attack what would opponent capture with forces he likes to spent.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2010, 9:20am by Hippo » |
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jdb
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #24 on: Sep 15th, 2010, 10:30am » |
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on Sep 15th, 2010, 8:41am, Hippo wrote:jdb@ I cannot find the map file, can you provide link please.
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Download this file, and unzip it. The maps are in the maps directory.
http://www.ai-contest.com/starter_packages/java_starter_package.zip
Quote:| I would probably use sum of time ship is yours as the fitness (ship at time 200-i has value i). The counterexample would still hold, ... I have not read the exact rules ... who has most ships at the end wins. |
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The winner is the side with the most ships after 200 turns. (Most of the time the game ends early because one side is reduced to zero.) Just to be clear, ship equals troops. The number of planets owned does not effect the winning condition.
Quote:| Extreme case: suppose you could attack planet at distance 199, producing 1000000 units per turn. It would have the best fitness, but I would not invest to it. |
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This would depend on if the enemy could get to it. If they enemy could not get to it, then it would be a very good move.
I am still reading over the rest of your interesting comments. Thanks for taking the time to make them.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2010, 10:34am by jdb » |
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Sconibulus
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #25 on: Sep 15th, 2010, 11:13am » |
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Couldn't you also take A and D? You'd leave yourself with 59 troops on the homeworld, but distance between worlds is 8, and distance to D is only 4, so you should be able to send the one remaining ship back to reinforce the homeworld up to 60 instantaneously upon capture, arriving simultaneously with the potential 100 enemies and resulting in a draw, with control maintained?
Or is it possible I'm misunderstanding how the system works?
:Edited to fix math
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| « Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2010, 11:16am by Sconibulus » |
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jdb
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #26 on: Sep 15th, 2010, 1:07pm » |
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on Sep 15th, 2010, 11:13am, Sconibulus wrote:Couldn't you also take A and D? You'd leave yourself with 59 troops on the homeworld, but distance between worlds is 8, and distance to D is only 4, so you should be able to send the one remaining ship back to reinforce the homeworld up to 60 instantaneously upon capture, arriving simultaneously with the potential 100 enemies and resulting in a draw, with control maintained?
Or is it possible I'm misunderstanding how the system works?
:Edited to fix math |
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I was not sure how the game mechanics worked in this situation, so I made up two bots to simulate this situation.
Your scenario is correct. The one ship makes it back at the same time the enemy arrives, resulting in retained control with zero ships.
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Hippo
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #27 on: Sep 15th, 2010, 1:19pm » |
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Please, I have not seen exact rules. What happens when the distance is not integer. Are the distances rounded up or to nearest integer ... when calculating turn of arival?
I probably forgot to write:
I would consider some kind of cost of sending k ships to distance d equal k*d as the troops are not available for this period elsewhere. This is motivation for sending small amount of ships repeatedly to some destination when the time is not so important as flexibility (especially to nonneutral planets).
Reorganizing troops such that they are near frontline is very important as it allows fast attacks to opponent planets such that he is not able react quickly enough not to lose the planet at least temporarily.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2010, 1:37pm by Hippo » |
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Hippo
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #28 on: Sep 15th, 2010, 1:43pm » |
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on Sep 15th, 2010, 11:13am, Sconibulus wrote:Couldn't you also take A and D? You'd leave yourself with 59 troops on the homeworld, but distance between worlds is 8, and distance to D is only 4, so you should be able to send the one remaining ship back to reinforce the homeworld up to 60 instantaneously upon capture, arriving simultaneously with the potential 100 enemies and resulting in a draw, with control maintained?
Or is it possible I'm misunderstanding how the system works?
:Edited to fix math |
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Oh yes, you are right. But I am not sure if sending to A, to D and rest to the opponent is not even better .
And sending all created troops through base planet to opponent base planet afterwards. (except if path through base plannet is longer (rounded) than direct path.
And if opponent's planet becomes yours continue flow through this planet to opponent's nearest one. Of course watch enemy actions and send enough ships not to lose any of your planets even for a turn. ... getting an opponent planet makes twice its grow ratio difference per turn ... taking neutral planet gives only once the grow ratio.
Attacking several opponent planets without gaining any of them is much worse than sure gaining of one of them ... this is why concentration of ships is important. On the other side if the planets are supported one other, attacking either of them consumes the same number of ships so attacking nearest is preferable as it consumes opponent's ships earlier.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2010, 2:33pm by Hippo » |
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Oystein
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Re: Google AI Contest Galactic Conquest
« Reply #29 on: Sep 15th, 2010, 2:01pm » |
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on Sep 15th, 2010, 1:19pm, Hippo wrote:| Please, I have not seen exact rules. What happens when the distance is not integer. Are the distances rounded up or to nearest integer ... when calculating turn of arival? |
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Round up
http://ai-contest.com/specification.php
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