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Topic: Re: About the P3 version of Bomb (Read 6565 times) |
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omar
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Re: About the P3 version of Bomb
« Reply #15 on: Jul 14th, 2005, 6:37pm » |
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on Jul 9th, 2005, 2:22pm, PMertens wrote:hmmmm - that move is over 2 days already.
What was the longest move in your game, Omar ?
Any problem with the rotating ?
... ok, seems to work now ... thanks Omar  |
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The process that was supposed to start the bot to make
the move for each postal game had died; Im not sure
what happened to it. I had to restart it again.
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omar
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Re: About the P3 version of Bomb
« Reply #16 on: Jul 14th, 2005, 6:46pm » |
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on Jul 12th, 2005, 1:51am, PMertens wrote:What surprises me most is that P3 seems not to be stronger than P2.
I managed to make some mistakes in the opening but bomb did not even try to take advantage (Game 23157 most impressive move 16b, but also those lovely Null-moves at 17 and 19)
I also got the impression that there are still lots of moves to prune (like using 3 steps to do st that can be undone in one ...) that should speed up things considerably.
Would it be possible to set up P2 vs P3 ?
In theorie P3 should clearly win. |
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Im sure P3 is better than P2, but it's probably not that much better. I could run P2 against P3, but it would take many games to determine exactly how much better P3 is than P2.
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omar
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Re: About the P3 version of Bomb
« Reply #17 on: Jul 14th, 2005, 7:02pm » |
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on Jul 13th, 2005, 5:41pm, Arimanator wrote:If P3 takes an average of 30+ min. per move does that mean that the championship Bomb, namely, the one Belbo had to contend against, was a P2+ one?
Or was the computer utilized back then a lot faster one? |
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The computer used for the challenge match was probably twice as fast as the one running P3.
The bots can usually be set to limit their search either based on time or depth of search. If limited by time they will search deeper in some areas of the search tree and hardly look at other areas. So the depth of the search can be quite variable. If the bot is limited by depth of search it will basically look at all postions to that depth before deciding on a final move; regardless of how long it takes.
So the version of Bomb that Frank played against in the challenge match was looking deeper than the P3 version in some areas of the tree. But we can say for sure now that it was not looking at all areas of the tree down to a depth of 3 plys (i.e. 12 steps).
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RonWeasley
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Re: About the P3 version of Bomb
« Reply #18 on: Jul 16th, 2005, 4:06pm » |
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Quote:The program never gave me an answer to my move while I was connected.
For instance on move 6 I waited 2 hours only to discover that Bomb's response came after a mere 10 min.
Even Bomb's piece setting didn't come while I was connected.
I can't do that tiresome manoeuver 50 times in a row.
I have the lastest update of XP, in case you were wondering. |
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This experience may help me. I also have XP (at home). I can't get a game started as silver because I don't get gold's setup move. Disconnecting and joining again might be the way to get a game going.
I wish I could help make the problem go away. But I have tried JRE updates and security settings and have not found a combination that works. Anybody else with XP have some insight?
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omar
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Re: About the P3 version of Bomb
« Reply #19 on: Jul 16th, 2005, 11:51pm » |
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You might want to make sure you have a current version of Flash player.
Go to http://macromedia.com
Near the bottom of the page there is a button to download the Flash player.
Also I would suggest using to the Firefox browser if possible. You can get it from:
http://mozilla.org/
If you have this setup already and the problem still presists, then it's problem with my Flash client. I already know of some things that I need to fix, but I would like to know about any other problems that are encountered. Thanks.
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Fritzlein
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Re: About the P3 version of Bomb
« Reply #20 on: Jul 17th, 2005, 10:01pm » |
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on Jul 6th, 2005, 6:47pm, omar wrote:
If P4 is slower than P3 by a even a factor of 100 it will take around 3000 minutes to make a move; or about 50 hours; or a little over two days. Still possible to play it as a postal game; although it will only play a few games per year.
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I'll play BombP4 if you set it up. I didn't understand that BombP3 was only going to take ten minutes or so per move. I'm up for a nice, slow postal game, say at 4 days per move.
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PMertens
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Re: About the P3 version of Bomb
« Reply #21 on: Jul 17th, 2005, 10:58pm » |
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on Jul 7th, 2005, 12:57am, PMertens wrote:Thats not exactly correct.
P2 might use an AVERAGE of 15s but in complex situations its far more.
In my last game it had an Average of 24s and played several moves at far over a minute.
Its extremely complexity dependant.
Same with P3
I have seen a 6h move !
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that would be up to 25 days for P4 
(not in the opening)
the good thing is:
it will speed up in the endgame due to hardware changes Omar is likely to do in a few years 
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omar
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Re: About the P3 version of Bomb
« Reply #22 on: Jul 18th, 2005, 6:45pm » |
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I've setup the P4 version of Bomb if anyone wants to try it. But only one person will be able to play it at a time.
I've set it up with a 10 day per move timecontrol and max reserve of 30 days. Hope that will be enough time for it.
Have fun.
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Fritzlein
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Re: About the P3 version of Bomb
« Reply #23 on: Jul 18th, 2005, 7:00pm » |
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on Jul 18th, 2005, 6:45pm, omar wrote:I've setup the P4 version of Bomb if anyone wants to try it. But only one person will be able to play it at a time.
I've set it up with a 10 day per move timecontrol and max reserve of 30 days. Hope that will be enough time for it.
Have fun.
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Thanks, Omar. I'll be greedy and take the first shot at it. I'll report back how long it seems to be taking per move.
1w: 00:00:00:00
2w: 00:00:07:51
3w: 00:00:27:04
4w: 07:14:39:20 (process died)
5w: 00:02:06:30
6w: 01:17:30:36
7w: 02:16:16:04
8w: 00:13:34:38
9w: 00:18:10:52
10w: 00:14:14:27
11w: forgot to record
12w: 00:18:26:31
13w: 00:18:59:07
14w: 01:02:28:57
15w: 00:08:56:01
16w: 00:18:58:36
17w: 01:11:57:06
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| « Last Edit: Aug 12th, 2005, 7:42pm by Fritzlein » |
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99of9
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Re: About the P3 version of Bomb
« Reply #24 on: Jul 18th, 2005, 11:51pm » |
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on Jul 18th, 2005, 7:00pm, Fritzlein wrote:
1w: 00:00:00
2w: 00:07:51
3w: 00:27:04
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The trend is looking worryingly superlinear!!
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Fritzlein
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Re: About the P3 version of Bomb
« Reply #25 on: Jul 19th, 2005, 10:28pm » |
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on Jul 19th, 2005, 5:16am, Arimanator wrote:What happened to P4 ? did it crash? If so too bad . I was looking forward to Fritz game against it.
Fritz, if you try this again, you have at least one avid spectator here.
I can see it now in the list, so maybe it was a dysfunction on my end. |
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I'm not sure how I would know if the bot crashes, unless it runs out of time, and even then it might be hard for me to discern the cause of the timeout. Perhaps in a couple of days Omar can check if P4 is still thinking.
Having spectators puts on the pressure! In my game against P3 I'm playing very haphazardly, but I guess since I'm the only human who currently has a shot at P4, I shouldn't blow it for humanity. 
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| « Last Edit: Jul 25th, 2005, 3:56pm by Fritzlein » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: About the P3 version of Bomb
« Reply #26 on: Jul 20th, 2005, 8:15am » |
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on Jul 7th, 2005, 12:57am, PMertens wrote:
Same with P3
I have seen a 6h move !
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Interesting... The longest move I've seen so far from P3 (up through move 14b) was 31 minutes. Most moves have been around 7 minutes. I guess I don't play very complex stuff...
Now if P3 can swing by a factor of 20 or more on the time taken per move, then probably P4 will someday take more than 40 days on a move and time out on the spot.
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omar
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Re: About the P3 version of Bomb
« Reply #27 on: Jul 20th, 2005, 11:16am » |
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Yes, it would be nice if we could set different time controls for the two players. Claude had suggested this as well (a while ago).
This would allow us to set a virtually unlimited time control for the Px bots and a resonable time control for the humans.
Unfortunately I didn't think of this when I was developing the site and changing it now is not going to be easy. But I'll keep this in mind for the future.
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Fritzlein
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Re: About the P3 version of Bomb
« Reply #28 on: Jul 26th, 2005, 4:40pm » |
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on Jul 19th, 2005, 10:28pm, Fritzlein wrote:| I'm not sure how I would know if the bot crashes, unless it runs out of time, and even then it might be hard for me to discern the cause of the timeout. Perhaps in a couple of days Omar can check if P4 is still thinking. |
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Omar, Bomb2005P4 hasn't moved for over a week now. Would you be willing to make sure it is actually thinking, rather than having crashed? Possibly Bomb simply can't calculate that deeply in a reasonable amount of time, but it would be a shame to have P4 lose on time due to a process dying.
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omar
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Re: About the P3 version of Bomb
« Reply #29 on: Jul 27th, 2005, 8:08am » |
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Yes, it had stopped. I've restarted it.
I made a change which might prevent this from happening, but let see if it really works. Continue to let me know if it seems to have stopped.
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