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Topic: Unrating Games / Integrity of Ratings (Read 4133 times) |
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Swynndla
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #1821
Posts: 235
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Re: Unrating Games / Integrity of Ratings
« Reply #15 on: May 25th, 2006, 8:05pm » |
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Unic, everyone else welcomes your bot. Please don't leave because of one person!
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99of9
Forum Guru
Gnobby's creator (player #314)
 
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Posts: 1413
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Re: Unrating Games / Integrity of Ratings
« Reply #16 on: May 25th, 2006, 8:08pm » |
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Of course you are welcome unic, as is fairy.
I will discuss your suggestions of blacklists with you at a later date, when things are less heated.
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chessandgo
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #1889
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Re: Unrating Games / Integrity of Ratings
« Reply #17 on: May 25th, 2006, 8:16pm » |
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God, Unic !!!! Of course, don't leave ! and Fairy neither ... never forget that we're here for fun ...
By the way, I don't care if you always decline to play with players stronger than 2000, but if you move your top bar to 1990, I go away !!! 
Jean
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Swynndla
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #1821
Posts: 235
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Re: Unrating Games / Integrity of Ratings
« Reply #18 on: May 25th, 2006, 8:31pm » |
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heheh chessandgo, you'll be over 2000 very soon I'm sure 
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omar
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Arimaa player #2
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Re: Unrating Games / Integrity of Ratings
« Reply #19 on: May 25th, 2006, 9:16pm » |
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Thanks for starting this topic Karl.
I recently had to send warning to a couple players about exessive use of the 'change game' option. I considered disabling that option, but it would be unfair to the majority of the players who use it properly. I could also disable the option for selected players, but I hate having to make those kind of decisions. But if someone is abusing it and enough different players send me a note about it I will disable the feature for that player.
As far as what to do about the inaccurate ratings. I think for now I will have to go with option #5. I still want to go back and revisit the rating system issues again when I get more time.
I would encourage people to download the games database and write their own programs to generate the *real* ratings. If the results of the program could be made available on the Web, I could link to it from the Arimaa site.
The different programs using different methods for computing the *real* ratings will come up with different rating values. We can then discuss these and suggest changes to the programs and possibly make progress towards a good rating system.
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| « Last Edit: May 25th, 2006, 9:18pm by omar » |
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chessandgo
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #1889
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Re: Unrating Games / Integrity of Ratings
« Reply #20 on: May 25th, 2006, 9:24pm » |
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on May 25th, 2006, 7:54pm, unic wrote:[ this part of the post was deleted ]
Are I and Fairy welcome? Or should we leave?
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The only one leaving is Arimanator.
Omar
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I see I'm not the only one to have a clown soul here
More seriously it's a pity to exclude a player indeed ... but I'm pretty sure you'll have even harder times in the future Omar ... 
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Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
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Posts: 5928
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Re: Unrating Games / Integrity of Ratings
« Reply #21 on: May 25th, 2006, 10:13pm » |
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on May 25th, 2006, 7:54pm, unic wrote:| [ this part of the post was deleted ]Should I remove *my* bot? Or should I keep it here? |
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I'm with everyone who would like to see more of Fairy. If you only want rated games, post a polite request to that effect to anyone who plays in unrated mode, and I think the vast majority of us will respect your wishes. The only question for me is how to persuade you to join the Computer Championship, because Fairy would make a great addition.
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Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
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Posts: 5928
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Re: Unrating Games / Integrity of Ratings
« Reply #22 on: May 25th, 2006, 10:16pm » |
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on May 25th, 2006, 9:16pm, omar wrote:| I think for now I will have to go with option #5. |
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OK, this may inspire me to attempt a pure hvh rating system. As for the regular rating which stays the same, we'll all know what to think of it.
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RonWeasley
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Harry's friend (Arimaa player #441)
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Re: Unrating Games / Integrity of Ratings
« Reply #23 on: May 26th, 2006, 7:48am » |
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I just got in this morning. Did I miss anything?
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PMertens
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #692
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Posts: 437
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Re: Unrating Games / Integrity of Ratings
« Reply #24 on: May 26th, 2006, 10:53am » |
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not really ...
How about bots, that simply resign in unrated games ?
I also would like a greeting message like:
"Welcome back user. Since you resigned the last 3 games against me this is your last chance or I will not play you again :-P"
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aaaa
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #958
Posts: 768
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Re: Unrating Games / Integrity of Ratings
« Reply #25 on: May 26th, 2006, 12:10pm » |
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I know resigning against human players is frowned upon here, but what's wrong with doing it against bots? I do it all the time and I haven't heard as much as a peep from them.
Frankly, I don't understand what this whole obsession with ratings is all about. This is not go, where one's rating/ranking matters with respect to determining handicap.
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chessandgo
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #1889
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Posts: 1244
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Re: Unrating Games / Integrity of Ratings
« Reply #26 on: May 26th, 2006, 12:13pm » |
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agreed !
Paul : I wish bots could chat !!!!
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Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
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Posts: 5928
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Re: Unrating Games / Integrity of Ratings
« Reply #27 on: May 26th, 2006, 12:39pm » |
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on May 26th, 2006, 12:10pm, aaaa wrote:| I know resigning against human players is frowned upon here, but what's wrong with doing it against bots? |
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I don't think you are going to hurt a bot's feelings by resigning in general, but there's a specific case here that is different: Unic is actively developing Fairy, and he is putting it on line in order to get feedback on how well it is playing. I don't think unic cares about the rating either, he just wants "serious" games so the result is more useful. If people would play just as seriously against Fairy in unrated games as in rated games, I don't think there would be any issue for unic at all.
Quote:| Frankly, I don't understand what this whole obsession with ratings is all about. This is not go, where one's rating/ranking matters with respect to determining handicap. |
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Sure, so you also don't see the need for a "Change Game" feature? That is to say, it wouldn't bother you at all if the Omar removed the feature for unrating games lost because of technical problems? From the perspective of, "Let's not obsess about ratings", it makes much more sense to me to disable the feature than to leave it intact and ignore abuses.
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Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
Gender:
Posts: 5928
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Re: Unrating Games / Integrity of Ratings
« Reply #28 on: May 26th, 2006, 12:43pm » |
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Well, chrismccoll must not read the forum or the comments on his games. If he reads the comments, he must not care what anyone else thinks. He's at it again with game 32205.
http://arimaa.com/arimaa/gameroom/comments.cgi?gid=32205
As I said in my answer to aaaa, if we decide that the itnegrity of the ratings isn't such a big deal anyway (perhaps recognizing that ratings manipulation happens other ways as well), then I'd rather see the feature removed than see it abused.
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aaaa
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #958
Posts: 768
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Re: Unrating Games / Integrity of Ratings
« Reply #29 on: May 26th, 2006, 12:59pm » |
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on May 26th, 2006, 12:39pm, Fritzlein wrote:
Sure, so you also don't see the need for a "Change Game" feature? That is to say, it wouldn't bother you at all if the Omar removed the feature for unrating games lost because of technical problems?
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Does the fact I even resigned games only because the bot timed out answer your question?
Anyway, Flash tends to crash my browser once in a while, so I would appreciate the existence of another client. It could even be another online one, except that it's programmed in, say, Java.
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| « Last Edit: May 26th, 2006, 1:01pm by aaaa » |
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