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Topic: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules (Read 18762 times) |
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Arimabuff
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Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules
« Reply #30 on: May 13th, 2010, 10:10am » |
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My computer being a derelict from another era I only have the original XP recording program and it's crap, I could use some help. Maybe if someone recorded my voice on Teamspeak from his computer in a format compatible with the rest.
Do you think that could be arranged? We would only need to agree on a time and date.
Anybody?
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megajester
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Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules
« Reply #31 on: May 13th, 2010, 10:35am » |
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on May 13th, 2010, 10:10am, Arimabuff wrote:My computer being a derelict from another era I only have the original XP recording program and it's crap, I could use some help. Maybe if someone recorded my voice on Teamspeak from his computer in a format compatible with the rest.
Do you think that could be arranged? We would only need to agree on a time and date.
Anybody?
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Have you tried Audacity? It has a cool noise removal function as well.
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megajester
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Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules
« Reply #32 on: May 13th, 2010, 10:35am » |
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I admire Omar for his vision of the Arimaa community as being genuinely democratic. And he's right, all it basically needs is for all of us just be cool and work as a team.
However, the main difference between us and ants is that ants are basically hardwired biological robots with zero creativity. They've been doing the same old thing for millions and millions of years. They need no leader because none of them ever has any ideas. Ideas require decisions and desicions require a decision maker. What we are trying to do is one giant idea composed of lots of little ideas that have been sifted from still more little ideas. Ideas lead to decisions that will end up being made by somebody. As Fritz pointed out, "let's all decide together" doesn't remove the need for a decision maker. Your decision maker just ends up being Kal.
It's good to let people step up to accept responsibility for different things, but I really do think we need Omar or somebody to co-ordinate the whole thing, just in case. Murphy's Law and all that.
I propose we take Omar's five points, set a schedule, and start co-ordinating this. Our due date is June 4th, right?
1. Writing a script
Deadline: Monday 17th
We simply don't have time to just all chip in and adjust the script willy nilly. There must be a creative brain that evaluates everybody's suggestions and makes the final decision. Fritz?
2. Recording the audio - myself, Arimabuff and... Omar? Somebody needs to manage this, and at least decide who will do the voiceovers. We can all submit a recording of the entire thing, fine, but you can't have 10 people put all that hard work into it when only 3 or so will be chosen.
3. Recording the video - Fritz & Omar. Anybody else?
Also: Music by Fireborn
Deadline: Monday 24th
4. Composition of audio and video
5. Adding overlays and music
Kal, of course
Deadline: Thursday 27th
We also need...
6. Review by panel (who?) with recommendations - Saturday 29th
7. Adjustments and submission of video to BBG - Thursday 3rd
...and that's still cutting things a bit fine!
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Fritzlein
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Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules
« Reply #33 on: May 13th, 2010, 11:24am » |
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on May 13th, 2010, 9:25am, SpeedRazor wrote:One of the most fascinating things about Arimaa is "why was it created?" (To see if, after IBM's Deep Blue/Kasparov match, human beings could still challenge computers with a game where brute force won't yet work.)
Fritzleine has explained this many times (and very aptly so!); but shouldn't, at the very least, the creator of the game explain this? I realize it's only 5 minutes, and there must be credits at the end, but Arimaa isn't a game in a vacuum: it was inspired into creation! That angle should be mentioned, I would think...
This also begs the question of whether "The Arimaa Challenge" should be mentioned - (which seems interesting to lay people) - which again begs whether Arimaa software programmers should chime in (Fotland, et cetera) on just why this game is such a challenge to program. |
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I'm sorry, but it is simply jam-packed just to get the rules in five minutes if we are going to illustrate them instead of just saying them, and have examples to clarify common confusions. Also the contest is for a rules video, and promotion of the game is explicitly discouraged.
Nevertheless, according to Omar's decision-making model, you should write your own script including the invention process and the Arimaa Challenge, and hope someone reads it, and hope someone creates accompanying video, and hope that this audio and video is mixed in to the final product. Or if nobody else is chipping in, you could do the writing, reading, visuals, and mixing, all by yourself. Omar will be happy, because then we will have two more videos to explain/promote Arimaa.
on May 13th, 2010, 10:35am, megajester wrote:| We simply don't have time to just all chip in and adjust the script willy nilly. There must be a creative brain that evaluates everybody's suggestions and makes the final decision. Fritz? |
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I have uploaded my latest script revision to Omar's FTP, incorporating several suggestions and leaving out others. I will try to paste it here as well, but the formatting may be funky since I composed in ScreenWriter and then exported to plain text. I'm still open for suggestions, but if the process bogs down, my patience for pouring time into this project will be very limited. It is hard work to write, as every other phase of the project is hard, and if it appears that my contributions are being frittered away because of some weird parallel-track chaotic mess, I'll happily leave my contribution for others to use or not use as they see fit.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
Arimaa is an abstract strategy game
with major appeal to chess players.
Dave and Betty are deep in thought over a chess position
(with clock). They look at the camera, intrigued, and mouth
"Really?"
NARRATOR (V.O.)
In fact, it can even be played with
a chess set, although it is more fun
with Z-Man Games' Arimaa set.
Betty holds up a boxed set to the camera while Dave rubs his
hands with glee. They begin to unpack the box.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
The Gold player and the Silver player
each have sixteen pieces: one
elephant, one camel, two horses, two
dogs, two cats, and eight rabbits.
(Close up on the pieces.) In tandem, Dave places the gold
elephant while Betty places the silver elephant, next to
each other and facing the camera. They place the camels to
the outside of the elephants. They place the horses in a
line away from the camera, outside of the camels, and so on
until they have placed all the rabbits.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
All the pieces move the same way, by
orthogonal steps, but the stronger
pieces can bully the weaker ones by
pushing, pulling, and freezing them.
(Close up on board.) In a typical Arimaa position, Gold
pushes one of Silver's pieces, Silver pulls one of Gold's
pieces, and Gold pretends to try to move his just-pulled,
now-frozen piece, unsuccessfully.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
A player gets four orthogonal steps
on every turn. The object of the
game is to advance any one of your
weakest pieces, a rabbit, to the
opponent's home rank.
(Close up on board.) Silver makes four steps. Gold makes
four steps. Silver advances a rabbit to goal. The players
shake hands.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
The board has four trap squares. A
piece can only be captured if it is
standing in a trap square, or if it
is pushed or pulled into one. On
any other square, a piece can't die.
Dave unsuccessfully tries to step on Betty's cat with his
elephant. Betty thumbs her nose at him.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
Gold begins the game by setting up
his pieces however he likes in his
two home ranks. All sixty-four
million possible setups are legal.
There are no restrictions... and no
memorized openings.
Dave puts all his pieces on the board, considers the setup
briefly, then takes them all off and puts them back on again
in a radically different configuration. Then off again,
then on again.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
After Silver sees Gold's setup, she
sets up her pieces in her home two
ranks. Her ability to react in the
setup compensates Silver for Gold
having the first move.
Betty contemplates Dave's setup. She sets up her pieces,
then mouths, "You're going down."
NARRATOR (V.O.)
After the setup, players take turns
moving. They try to force captures
in trap squares and ultimately get a
rabbit across the board.
(Close up on board.) From the position
rrrddrrr/rhcemchr/8/8/8/8/RHCMERHR/RRRDDRCR, Gold and Silver
play a complete, short racing game. 2g E^^^Hg^ 2s Evvvv 3g
E^Hg^^^ 3s EM>ER^* 4g E>CE<*Cg^ 4s HE>EH^* 5g EM>v* 5s RE>ER^* 6g
RE<ERv* 6s Rh2vvvv 7g Rf^^^^ 7s Dd>De>Rh6>v 8g DE>Edv* 8s E>R7>v
NARRATOR (V.O.)
Now that we've seen the basics, let's
look at the rules more closely. All
pieces move by stepping one square
left, right, forward or backward,
except rabbits, which can't step
backwards. Rabbits can only step
left, right, or forward.
(Close up on board.) Silver elephant in middle moves left,
right, forward, and back. Gold rabbit moves left, right,
and forward, but fails to move back.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
No piece can move diagonally; in
fact diagonals never count in Arimaa.
That's why the board isn't checkered!
A position is set up on the checkered side of the board with
pieces only on the black squares. Dave contemplates, then
makes three diagonal jumps with his rabbit, folds his arms,
and mouths, "King me!" Betty rolls her eyes and makes the
"lame" sign on her forehead.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
You may make up to four steps per
turn. You don't have to use all
four of your steps, but you must
change the position. You may use
all four steps on the same piece,
divide them between four different
pieces, or anything in between.
(Close up on board.) From the setup
rdrccrrr/rmredrhh/8/8/8/8/CHRMERHC/RRRDDRRR Gold plays 2g
E^^vv. Silver's hand motions for Gold to continue/try again,
at which point Gold plays 2g E^ and waves hands to show he
is finished. Silver's hands shrug, then plays 2s Evv>v.
Gold plays 3g Ca^Hb^Hg^Ch^. Silver plays 3s MvvHgvv.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
A piece that is next to a stronger
opposing piece is frozen, and can't
move, unless it has an orthogonally
adjacent friendly piece. Friends
don't let friends get frozen! A
frozen piece can freeze a yet weaker
piece. Equal pieces do not freeze
each other.
(Continue previous closeup) Gold plays 4g E<^<^. Silver
unsuccessfully tries to move her camel, then plays 4s
Rh7v>MvEv. Gold plays 5g E<Ca^, then unsuccessfully tries
to advance his cat past the frozen camel, and finishes instead
with De^Hg^. Silver points to the two equal horses and plays
5s Hg>vRhvv.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
For the cost of two steps, a piece
can push a weaker opposing piece.
First, the weaker piece is moved to
an adjacent empty square. Second,
the pushing piece moves to where the
opposing piece started. Equal pieces
can't push each other. If there is
no empty square adjacent, the piece
can't be pushed.
(Continue previous closeup) Gold plays 6g EM>, then tries
unsuccessfully to push the h4-horse with his g4-horse. He
shrugs and finishes with Ch^Dd>. Silver tries unsuccessfully
to push her elephant into e2.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
Also for the cost of two steps, a
piece can pull a weaker opposing
piece. First, the stronger piece is
moved to an adjacent empty square,
and then the weaker piece moves where
the stronger piece came from. Equal
pieces can't pull each other.
Silver plays 6s DE<, then tries to pull the g4-horse with
her h4-horse but Gold's hand stops her. Finally she finishes
with CHh^.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
Note that a rabbit can be pushed
backward even though it can't move
backward voluntarily. Four steps
may be used to push and pull
consecutively, but a piece can't
push and pull at the same time.
Gold plays 7g CR^RbCv. Silver tries to push the gold camel
with her elephant while pulling the Gold dog behind, but is
stopped by Gold, so she takes back the whole move.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
Capturing is simple. A piece on a
trap square with no adjacent friends
is immediately removed from the board.
Friends don't let friends get
captured. This means a piece can be
captured four ways: 1) stepping into
an unprotected trap. duh!
Silver plays 7s Rc7v*, and Gold's hand reaches in to stop
her and remove the rabbit from the board. She then plays
7s RgvvRf7v.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
2) being on a trap when its friends
move away. double duh!
Gold plays 8g Rf2^De^*, and Silver's hand reaches in to
stop him and remove the rabbit. Gold finishes with Dd^Hb>
NARRATOR (V.O.)
3) being on a trap when its friends
are pushed or pulled away
Silver plays 8s EMvER<*. Gold plays 8g D5>>RD<*.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
Or 4) being pushed or pulled into an
undefended trap.
Silver plays 9s RcE^<*. Gold plays HR^<*.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
Other than getting a rabbit across
the board, there are two ways to
win, although they are less common.
Taking the opponent's last rabbit
wins the game, even if you sacrifice
your last rabbit to do it.
Position 8/8/8/2R5/2e2m2/1ErD2C1/2D2Mh1/8. Silver plays
Er^*, then gets up and starts doing a victory dance.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
Also, depriving the opponent of any
legal move wins the game, although
you can't sacrifice your last rabbit
to win this way.
Position 8/rrrH4/MeD5/RCD2m2/1R1hEh2/8/8/8. Gold plays EHv*ME<
and does a fist pump over the board.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
To prevent draws, it is illegal to
cause a position to occur for the
third time, with the same player to
move. Although this prevents all
sorts of wacky repetitions, mostly
it just means you can't keep undoing
your opponent's move.
Position
8/1rrcdrr1/rd1h2c1/15mr/5E1r/RM2eh/HR/R1HDCDRR/1RR1RC2. The
game proceeds 1s MvHM^Hf> 1g EvHE^Hgv 2s MvHM^Hf> 2g EvHE^Hgv
at which point Silver stops Gold and wags her finger at him.
For his fourth step he plays Rg^ instead.
NARRATOR (V.O.)
That's all you need to know. You
are ready to play Arimaa!
End credits with awesome accompanying music.
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| « Last Edit: May 13th, 2010, 11:25am by Fritzlein » |
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Arimabuff
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Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules
« Reply #34 on: May 13th, 2010, 12:26pm » |
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on May 13th, 2010, 10:35am, megajester wrote:
Have you tried Audacity? It has a cool noise removal function as well. |
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I don't have it and I am not sure if my computer could withstand it. It's already at its limit. Could you record me on teamspeak?
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Fritzlein
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Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules
« Reply #35 on: May 13th, 2010, 12:41pm » |
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on May 13th, 2010, 4:35am, Nombril wrote:| Do we want Arimaa compared to chess in the opening? I know that has been a turn off for some of the people I have taught the game to. Many of the perceived drawbacks of chess (memorized openings, etc.) are not present in Arimaa. And I thought there was some sentiment that it shouldn't be categorized as a chess variant. (Note - I said perceived - I figure that is a discussion for a different thread...) |
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I was ambivalent about this point. There are good arguments on both sides.
I believe that the target audience for promoting Arimaa is chess players, both because there are millions of chess players, and because people who like chess will like Arimaa too if they give it a chance. If Arimaa ever hits the big time, it will do so by converting chess players. Just look at what one Board Game Geek denizen had to say about Arimaa:
Quote:| Like chess, this is a serious strategy game in which losing a piece through a single mistake condemns you to half an hour of pointless struggle against certain defeat. If that's the type of game you're looking for, it's fine. |
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He dislikes Arimaa for being similar to chess, but not because it shares any of chess's real defects (first player advantage, draws, memorized openings, computer dominance) but because it shares two advantages of chess (clarity and decisiveness). He's upset about Arimaa for something that is semi-true, but irrelevant to Arimaa's quality. This guy is not our target audience. Trying to persuade him is an uphill battle we don't need to be fighting.
Yes, it is definitely a negative for Arimaa to be perceived as a chess variant, even though I personally do think of Arimaa as a chess variant. But the reason it is a negative is that many serious chess players hate chess variants. Also people who play chess variants often think there is something wrong with chess. There isn't necessarily any love lost between chess fanatics and chess variant fanatics. We want to distance ourselves from chess variants, not distance ourselves from chess per se. I very specifically did not say in the script that Arimaa is a chess variant. I said that Arimaa has major appeal to chess players. I want to be positive about chess, not say that chess is broken and Arimaa fixes it.
There are exceptions to every rule, but mostly people who like chess will like Arimaa for the same reasons, and people who dislike chess will dislike Arimaa for the same reasons. We shouldn't be marketing Arimaa to people who won't like it, and we should be marketing Arimaa to people who will like it.
I have experienced this very much first hand. Dallas is a great city for gaming, with lots of active clubs. I have been to a local chess club several times, and a local general board game club several times. The chess players were receptive to Arimaa based on its qualities. The boardgamers were simply not interested in the type of game that Arimaa is. If my life depended on making five converts to Arimaa within the next week, I would spend my time first at the chess club, then going door to door asking if people play chess, and only as a last resort hitting up people who play Settlers of Catan and Dungeon Lords.
My main hesitation about the chess reference is that chess is not very popular on BGG, and this is a BGG video rules contest. In that circle there will be plenty of people for whom the word "chess" is an instant turnoff. For those folks, however, almost any two-player abstract is not their cup of tea. Let's not try to pretend Arimaa is something other than what it is to please a group that aren't interested in it anyhow. And lucky for us, the population of chess players is vastly larger. We have to target our base.
Well, that's my justification for leaving the chess reference in. But since there is no decision-making process for this project...
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jdb
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Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules
« Reply #36 on: May 13th, 2010, 3:53pm » |
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I read the narrative. It looks pretty good to me. Together with the graphics it should give a good description of the rules.
One thing to consider, some of the time the pieces are "on" the board and sometimes they are "in" the board. Its likely best to pick one or the other. Same thing for "onto" and "into"
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Fritzlein
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Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules
« Reply #37 on: May 13th, 2010, 7:01pm » |
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on May 13th, 2010, 3:53pm, jdb wrote:| One thing to consider, some of the time the pieces are "on" the board and sometimes they are "in" the board. Its likely best to pick one or the other. Same thing for "onto" and "into" |
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Good point. Consistently using "on" and "onto" would be an improvement.
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omar
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Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules
« Reply #38 on: May 14th, 2010, 7:22am » |
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Actually I think the script is what determines the video more than anything else. The script can even mention who says what part. Initially the script might not mention this, since we don't know who will be interested to record the audio, but once some audio files have been uploaded the script can be updated to mention who says what part. If we have suggested a way on how to splice the files together I think Kal would just follow that; just I expect that people who record the audio or video will follow the script and not deviate even though they could. The ideas and decisions are really in the script.
So I think our focus should be on the script and evolving the script before we start implementing the script.
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| « Last Edit: May 14th, 2010, 7:24am by omar » |
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FireBorn
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Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules
« Reply #39 on: May 14th, 2010, 8:44am » |
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In the interest of time and simplicity, I'm not going to write the music anymore. Instead, I'll just find a suitable piece of music, and loop it if I have to. I was thinking something like the Up movie soundtrack or some other old timey jazz - something relaxing yet sophisticated. All the mouthed words in the script remind me of a silent film.
EDIT: about the script, I think we should mention that Gold moves first explicitly rather than implicitly.
Also, the "L" on the forehead stands for "loser", not "lame". Rolling her eyes is enough to get the point across I think.
And I'd remove the "duh" and "double duh". Do kids still say that? I've never heard "double duh" in any case.
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| « Last Edit: May 14th, 2010, 9:07am by FireBorn » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules
« Reply #40 on: May 14th, 2010, 2:36pm » |
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on May 14th, 2010, 7:22am, omar wrote:| So I think our focus should be on the script and evolving the script before we start implementing the script. |
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Cool. What changes would you suggest relative to my last submission?
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megajester
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Istanbul, Turkey
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Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules
« Reply #41 on: May 15th, 2010, 2:39am » |
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I think it's a great script. Apart from maybe a couple of the things that Fireborn mentioned there's nothing that needs adjusting from what I can tell. Clearly from here on in it's just fine details. So based on the 80/20 rule (and if everybody likes my schedule proposal) I reckon if nobody suggests anything more by Monday we should just use what we got otherwise it's gonna take forever.
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| « Last Edit: May 15th, 2010, 2:40am by megajester » |
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Arimabuff
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Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules
« Reply #42 on: May 15th, 2010, 9:07am » |
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on May 15th, 2010, 2:39am, megajester wrote:| I think it's a great script. Apart from maybe a couple of the things that Fireborn mentioned there's nothing that needs adjusting from what I can tell. Clearly from here on in it's just fine details. So based on the 80/20 rule (and if everybody likes my schedule proposal) I reckon if nobody suggests anything more by Monday we should just use what we got otherwise it's gonna take forever. |
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I agree I was looking forward to this and Fritz put a lot of thought into it. It would be a shame to let it go to waste. I am willing to read the entire script through Teamspeak; it doesn't matter if only a few sentences of mine are selected in the end. I need someone to do the recording on his end though. Who's willing to do so? The sooner I have an answer the better.
If every one of us does what he has the means to do without delays then we may see this thing through otherwise there's not a chance in H-E double hockey sticks.
Time for everyone to get a move on!
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules
« Reply #43 on: May 15th, 2010, 10:42am » |
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on May 14th, 2010, 8:44am, FireBorn wrote:| All the mouthed words in the script remind me of a silent film. |
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Yeah, the "silent movie" effect could be weird. My thought was that I didn't want the actors and narrators to have to take turns, because it could make the timing issues of the mixing more difficult. I imagined the actors actually saying whatever they say, and then having their audio removed and replaced by the narrator. But I am not experienced enough to know how it will seem to viewers if the narrator is sonorously extolling the balance of Arimaa while Silver is violently but silently dissing Gold.
Quote:| And I'd remove the "duh" and "double duh". Do kids still say that? I've never heard "double duh" in any case. |
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How about "Oops" and "D'oh"? The point is to be more concise than saying, "Of course, one would seldom voluntary suicide one's own piece, but there are situations where the need arises, and it is permitted by the rules."
Quote:| Also, the "L" on the forehead stands for "loser", not "lame". Rolling her eyes is enough to get the point across I think. |
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Actors, please feel free to ad-lib. That is, assuming we have any actors? I truly would prefer not to do the video. Any volunteers?
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| « Last Edit: May 15th, 2010, 10:44am by Fritzlein » |
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omar
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Re: BGG Contest for Videos about Board Game Rules
« Reply #44 on: May 15th, 2010, 11:18am » |
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on May 14th, 2010, 2:36pm, Fritzlein wrote:
Cool. What changes would you suggest relative to my last submission? |
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Needed some time to think about this first 
Saying "with major appeal to chess players" could be interpreted as an opinion right now rather than a fact. I believe it's true, but the sample size is still small. I'm a bit concerned that saying this might actually turn off chess players and also turn off the BGG community. Instead I think we should say things which are facts and will sound intriguing. We know that many people don't watch a video past the first 30 seconds. So if they get nothing else out of it, I think we would want them to at least walk away with some interesting facts they can tell others. So here's a suggestion.
["How to Play Arimaa" animation from existing video; possibly different music; after animation stops]
Narrator:
"Arimaa is an abstract strategy game with a $10,000 programming challenge and a yearly man vs machine match. It was designed in 2002 to show that humans can still out smart computer and so far the humans are still dominating."
[pan in on still image of GK vs Deep Blue; music slowly fading out]
Narrator:
"If you have a chess set at home, you already have the equipment to play Arimaa."
[pan in on image of a chess set]
"Although it's more fun with Z-Man Games' Arimaa set."
[Betty holds up .... ]
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| « Last Edit: May 15th, 2010, 11:21am by omar » |
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