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Topic: New Challenge Pledge (Read 5046 times) |
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Fritzlein
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #706
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Re: New Challenge Pledge
« Reply #15 on: Sep 21st, 2013, 1:19pm » |
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on Sep 21st, 2013, 12:27pm, RiEvEr wrote:| That is what I prefer. I know how to make strong Chess bots, for instance, but they're not 'fun' to play against. I'd rather code a bot with some 'personality' so people feel more like they're having an actual game with a friend (or enemy). |
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It's great that we have bots with different personalities on the bot ladder so that new players working their way up get exposed to many different styles of play. Perhaps the most idiosyncratic is bot_Loc, with some human-looking moves but also some huge blind spots, since is was coded without full-width alpha-beta search. (Or am I thinking of bot_Rat, by the same author?)
In the long run, though, an opponent won't be fun unless it is about the same level as you are. It is boring to lose every game or win every game. So making a bot that is fun for top players requires you to get within a few hundred Elo of winning the Arimaa Challenge itself. I hope you are up to it!
The balance of power in the Arimaa Challenge depends on the intrinsic nature of Arimaa itself, but also depends very much on the population of people committed to contesting the Challenge. Every time an enthusiastic new gamer joins, the balance tips a little towards the humans, but every time an enthusiastic new developer joins, it tips a little bit towards the bots. Since I am rooting for humans to win, I must hope you aren't too good at AI programming. 
Are you with me, Leo? Or are you offering your prize money (like Omar) halfway hoping that you will lose, as long as you lose in an interesting way?
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| « Last Edit: Sep 21st, 2013, 1:23pm by Fritzlein » |
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RiEvEr
Forum Junior Member
Arimaa player #8933
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Re: New Challenge Pledge
« Reply #16 on: Sep 21st, 2013, 6:18pm » |
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on Sep 21st, 2013, 1:19pm, Fritzlein wrote:
Since I am rooting for humans to win, I must hope you aren't too good at AI programming.
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Funnily enough, I hadn't really considered the money aspect of the challenge, but there's time to beat that once I'm happy with the initial fun code.
I am a very good AI programmer. I tend to make intuitive leaps in my imagination that quickly turn into completed subroutines under my fingers.
I am really looking forward to getting back to creating once again 
"We are the music-makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers,
And sitting by desolate streams.
World-losers and world-forsakers,
Upon whom the pale moon gleams;
Yet we are the movers and shakers,
Of the world forever, it seems. "
(Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy)
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leob
Forum Newbie
Arimaa player #8939
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Re: New Challenge Pledge
« Reply #17 on: Sep 21st, 2013, 7:17pm » |
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on Sep 21st, 2013, 1:19pm, Fritzlein wrote:
Are you with me, Leo? Or are you offering your prize money (like Omar) halfway hoping that you will lose, as long as you lose in an interesting way? |
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Looking at the Arimaa Challenge results and trends, I estimate my (and Omar's) odds of losing at around 30%. And, of course, if I lose, I'd prefer to lose in an interesting way, not due to a technicality (like if nobody from the top 10 players was able to participate).
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RiEvEr
Forum Junior Member
Arimaa player #8933
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Re: New Challenge Pledge
« Reply #18 on: Sep 22nd, 2013, 4:09am » |
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on Sep 21st, 2013, 7:17pm, leob wrote:
Looking at the Arimaa Challenge results and trends, I estimate my (and Omar's) odds of losing at around 30%. And, of course, if I lose, I'd prefer to lose in an interesting way, not due to a technicality (like if nobody from the top 10 players was able to participate). |
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I agree with that. If I were to enter a bot in the challenge I would want it to play the best Human opponents or the result would be meaningless.
Obviously, some number-crunching super-computer running the best of the current bots would stand a chance even now, but that solution would not be elegant.
I played a few more games of Arimaa last night (Android) and can already see that the game holds the same potential for beautiful moves and combinations that first drew me to chess over 40 years ago.
I have always loved games and mainly got into AI coding because I couldn't find regular friends to play with once I was an adult and computers provided me with the opportunity to create opponents of my own. In some ways, this puts me on the side of the Humans, like Fritz, but I am never satisfied with my coding efforts and have always striven to improve each iteration of my 'bots' in any game; thus I would never hold back so the humans could win, either. *chuckles*
I would also take into account the fact that the prize money would let me buy a top of the range PC and no gamer is going to turn down a chance like that.
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Arimabuff
Forum Guru
Arimaa player #2764
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Re: New Challenge Pledge
« Reply #19 on: Oct 17th, 2013, 7:42am » |
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If I am not mistaken "silver bullet" refers to werewolves, right?
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