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Topic: Round 5 Nombril v. 722caasi: 722caasi disqualified (Read 13876 times) |
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megajester
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Round 5 Nombril v. 722caasi: 722caasi disqualified
« on: Jun 20th, 2010, 1:06pm » |
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Based on IP logs it has been determined that Guest 13301, who was signed into the chatroom for the duration of 722caasi's game against Nombril, was in fact 722caasi. This is in clear and brazen violation of Amendment B in the League Rules: "While a game is being played there shall be no communication between any one of the players and anybody else concerning Arimaa. Such communication includes, but is not limited to, being signed in to the chatroom or the Teamspeak client. Any infringement of this rule shall result in forfeit subject to the discretion of the opposing player."
Because this is a case of willful cheating, the League Director and I have agreed to declare 722caasi's game a forfeit, and bar him from any participation in this League and any other League starting in 2010.
I would like to add that I am outraged at 722caasi's actions. Letting his team down like this is inexcusable, but more than that he has trampled on our core values of sportsmanship and mutual respect. I hope he will learn from this. However I find it hard to see how an individual who has not even divulged his name will succeed in regaining the trust of his teammates and the wider Arimaa community.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Round 5 Nombril v. 722caasi: 722caasi disquali
« Reply #1 on: Jun 20th, 2010, 2:02pm » |
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This is disappointing and sad. We have known for a long time that someone can cheat via the chatroom archive without even logging in. A cheater need only refresh the archive each move to look for good moves or plans that have been suggested. If 722caasi had done this, he wouldn't have been caught. Probably someone has already cheated this way in the past and not been caught. Until now, however, I could delude myself with the happy thought that everyone here values the fun of the game more than they value winning.
Now that my illusion is shattered, I won't ever be comfortable chatting about a live game again. Every time I suggest a move and that move is played, the ugly thought will occur to me that the player just read the chat archive. Other readers will suspect the same. The only way for a player to avoid suspicion will be to play something that nobody suggested in chat, which of course they can't be sure to do if they are not reading the archive.
Perhaps it would be possible to still give commentary via TeamSpeak if the logins to Teamspeak were password protected instead of being open. There is no archive of the audio until after the game. True, someone could have a friend listen in to Teamspeak and relay moves via phone, but at least no single bad apple could spoil the barrel, because an accomplice would be necessary. If there were another suspicious correlation between commentary suggestions and actually-played moves, at least we would know exactly who could have passed on the information.
Until we have a closed system for commentary, however, I won't be giving any more, either in chat or in TeamSpeak. Cheaters will find a way, but I won't volunteer my brainwaves to their assistance. Hopefully we can get some kind of patch in place in time for the 2011 World Championship so that at least those games can have live audio.
Unfortunately, in only a few more years, we will have to face the reality that Internet games can barely be shielded from cheating at all. If Arimaa gets larger and more serious, every contestant will be required to have a sworn witness present during all games to verify that he received no assistance, or else the World Championship will have to become a face-to-face tournament that 90% of the community won't be able to afford to attend.
Thanks, 722cassi, for making us face this unpleasant reality. (Naturally my compliments about your excellent play are revoked.  )
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Eltripas
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Re: Round 5 Nombril v. 722caasi: 722caasi disquali
« Reply #2 on: Jun 20th, 2010, 3:40pm » |
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Wow, that was unexpected, isn't there a way to force the players to be logged in the chat room to check the archive?
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ocmiente
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Re: Round 5 Nombril v. 722caasi: 722caasi disquali
« Reply #3 on: Jun 20th, 2010, 4:10pm » |
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That's too bad. Especially losing Fritz' commentary. His commentary is extremely helpful, and I hate to think that this can't be fixed somehow.
I suspect that this has come up before? I figured that if the spectators could only view a game after a 5 minute delay or something, that might be enough to get around this problem - but I also figure that someone has already recommended that and there's a reason why that won't work...
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Isaac Grosof
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Re: Round 5 Nombril v. 722caasi: 722caasi disquali
« Reply #4 on: Jun 20th, 2010, 6:59pm » |
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I'm really sorry. I shouldn't have cheated, I let my team down. I am withdrawing myself from the Rockies. I'll never do anything like this again.
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Sorry about that one thing.
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Fritzlein
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Re: Round 5 Nombril v. 722caasi: 722caasi disquali
« Reply #5 on: Jun 20th, 2010, 7:57pm » |
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on Jun 20th, 2010, 6:59pm, 722caasi wrote:| I'm really sorry. I shouldn't have cheated, I let my team down. I am withdrawing myself from the Rockies. I'll never do anything like this again. |
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Thanks for admitting it, and thanks for apologizing. I'll see you in the 2011 Arimaa World League.
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leo
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Re: Round 5 Nombril v. 722caasi: 722caasi disquali
« Reply #6 on: Jun 20th, 2010, 8:33pm » |
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on Jun 20th, 2010, 3:40pm, Eltripas wrote:| isn't there a way to force the players to be logged in the chat room to check the archive? |
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It looks like an important feature request for the next version of the chatroom.
Let's have permalinks to the archive but forbid direct access to the recent log slice?
This would require separate authentications for the gameroom and the chatroom.
Double logins are harder to check because legitimate players might connect from the same LAN sometimes.
Anyway I'm very puzzled by the idea of peeking into the chat while playing.
Doing so would just confuse me and make me lose all my games. LOL
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Harren
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Re: Round 5 Nombril v. 722caasi: 722caasi disquali
« Reply #7 on: Jun 20th, 2010, 11:40pm » |
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Too bad...
Is there no way to put a password on the teamspeak server? If not, there should be other audio-chat programs that we might use?
As others have mentioned, Fritz's live commentaries are very helpful in learning this game..
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Fritzlein
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Re: Round 5 Nombril v. 722caasi: 722caasi disquali
« Reply #8 on: Jun 21st, 2010, 1:41am » |
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on Jun 20th, 2010, 11:40pm, Harren wrote:| As others have mentioned, Fritz's live commentaries are very helpful in learning this game.. |
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... especially helpful in learning how to beat the opponent you are currently playing.  But for the record, the key move that enabled 722caasi to rescue a difficult position was a suggestion from Sconibulus that I didn't see or even understand at first. So it isn't just my chatting that can tip the balance of a game for a cheater.
I'm glad we are thinking about solutions for making it less tempting to listen in to commentary, because I enjoy giving it as well as hearing it from others, and I feel it adds a lot to the community. But I also think that live cheating takes more away from the community than live commentary adds. 
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Harren
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Arimaa player #3619
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Re: Round 5 Nombril v. 722caasi: 722caasi disquali
« Reply #9 on: Jun 21st, 2010, 2:16am » |
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It seems the arimaa teamspeak server can be protected by a password. Perhaps the procedure for live commentary can then be as follows:
1. give a few active (trusted) arimaa players admin powers over the teamspeak server.
2. Before the beginning of a live commentary, one of these players present will change the password (this player is either chosen in advance from the players from 1, or whoever of these players is online before the game).
3. Anyone wanting to listen in should indicate so to the chosen player, who will pm them the password.
Of course, this does not directly solve the problem of duplicate accounts. However, one might decide to only give the password to ``known'' players?
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chessandgo
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Re: Round 5 Nombril v. 722caasi: 722caasi disquali
« Reply #10 on: Jun 21st, 2010, 2:26am » |
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My take on this is that live commentary via both the chatroom and teamspeak should continue. Possible cheating should not deter anyone from contributing to the overall spreading of arimaa knowledge. I wouldn't mind losing to a player who would have cheated this way, or at least much less than I would mind Fritzl (and others) having to keep his opinions to himself. Strategic and tactical live chat is a great way for everyone to improve their game in my opinion, and that's what really matters.
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megajester
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Re: Round 5 Nombril v. 722caasi: 722caasi disquali
« Reply #11 on: Jun 21st, 2010, 2:31am » |
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The League's purpose is partly to improve our game, yes, but it's also about having a competitive tournament. Take away the last part and you'll kill the League spirit. Cheating must be taken seriously.
I reckon the whole thing could be solved by disallowing simultaneous logins to the gameroom from the same IP, and not allowing guests to log into Teamspeak. Of course we can't prevent all cheating, but this will at least allow commentary to go on unhindered. Unless I'm missing something here...
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RonWeasley
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Re: Round 5 Nombril v. 722caasi: 722caasi disquali
« Reply #12 on: Jun 21st, 2010, 4:45am » |
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on Jun 20th, 2010, 6:59pm, 722caasi wrote:| I'm really sorry. I shouldn't have cheated, I let my team down. I am withdrawing myself from the Rockies. I'll never do anything like this again. |
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This is a significant statement that justifies, for me, Omar's decision not to impose heavier penalties immediately.
On future commentary, I'm with chessandgo in wanting it to continue. Maybe I'm too trusting, but I don't think a serious contender in the WC or future AWL would try to win by using outside help, chatroom or bots. Additionally, this community is very perceptive, and I expect any consistent cheating behavior would get noticed and exposed, like this was.
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chessandgo
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Re: Round 5 Nombril v. 722caasi: 722caasi disquali
« Reply #13 on: Jun 21st, 2010, 6:43am » |
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on Jun 21st, 2010, 2:31am, megajester wrote:The League's purpose is partly to improve our game, yes, but it's also about having a competitive tournament. Take away the last part and you'll kill the League spirit. Cheating must be taken seriously.
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I meant for the WC as well as for the League (or any other event).
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megajester
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Re: Round 5 Nombril v. 722caasi: 722caasi disquali
« Reply #14 on: Jun 21st, 2010, 6:56am » |
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on Jun 21st, 2010, 2:26am, chessandgo wrote:| I wouldn't mind losing to a player who would have cheated this way. |
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I know where you're coming from, and I'm all for advancing Arimaa knowledge, but I for one definitely would mind.
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