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Topic: Rescheduled Games (Read 10982 times) |
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megajester
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Rescheduled Games
« on: Aug 14th, 2012, 6:20am » |
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This thread is for players to announce that they have agreed to reschedule their game. Please see the League Rules for more information.
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woh
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Re: Rescheduled Games
« Reply #1 on: Aug 23rd, 2012, 4:27pm » |
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ginrunner and I agreed to reschedule our game.
We will play our game 15 hours later, at 9 pm GMT Saturday.
woh
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ginrunner
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Re: Rescheduled Games
« Reply #2 on: Aug 23rd, 2012, 7:30pm » |
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^yes
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Adanac
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Re: Rescheduled Games
« Reply #3 on: Aug 24th, 2012, 2:18pm » |
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Browni3141 and I are re-scheduling our game for Monday night at 9pm EDT. I believe that's Tuesday 01:00 GMT.
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browni3141
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Re: Rescheduled Games
« Reply #4 on: Aug 24th, 2012, 3:45pm » |
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I confirm what Adanac said, but I don't know if Monday 9:00 EDT is Tuesday 1:00 GMT because of the evils of daylight savings.
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Eggman
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Re: Rescheduled Games
« Reply #5 on: Aug 31st, 2012, 4:15pm » |
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Just FYI...Ring of Fire arranged for me to substitute for Ivers0n in today's AWL match against knak. I invited knak to a game, explaining that I was substituting, but he declined saying that he was already playing Ivers0n. Ivers0n doesn't appear to be logged into the game room so I believe there's a bit of misunderstanding going on.
I should be available to play for a bit longer or I can play a rescheduled game later on this weekend. I mainly wanted to post this as "evidence" that I was here in time for the match.
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Eggman
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Re: Rescheduled Games
« Reply #6 on: Aug 31st, 2012, 4:18pm » |
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on Aug 31st, 2012, 4:15pm, Eggman wrote:Just FYI...Ring of Fire arranged for me to substitute for Ivers0n in today's AWL match against knak. I invited knak to a game, explaining that I was substituting, but he declined saying that he was already playing Ivers0n. Ivers0n doesn't appear to be logged into the game room so I believe there's a bit of misunderstanding going on.
I should be available to play for a bit longer or I can play a rescheduled game later on this weekend. I mainly wanted to post this as "evidence" that I was here in time for the match.
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Heh. Disregard. I still don't see Ivers0n logged into the game room (I do see knak logged in) but the match is being played, so carry on. 
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Adanac
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Re: Rescheduled Games
« Reply #7 on: Sep 1st, 2012, 11:14am » |
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Megajester: Can we get a ruling on what should be done in the future in this scenario. Ivers0n said he wouldn't be able to play this weekend and I announced in our club forum page that Eggman would be the substitute. Ivers0n never told me or posted on the forum that he still wanted to play.
Question: When both Eggman & Ivers0n showed up to play the game, should the official match have been Knak versus Eggman? That's my understanding, despite the original game with Ivers0n still being displayed in the gameroom.
I know that there are a lot of people that volunteered for administrative duty. Does anyone have admin rights that could update the gameroom AWL scheduled games after reading announcements in the forum?
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| « Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2012, 11:24am by Adanac » |
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megajester
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Re: Rescheduled Games
« Reply #8 on: Sep 1st, 2012, 11:46am » |
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on Sep 1st, 2012, 11:14am, Adanac wrote:Megajester: Can we get a ruling on what should be done in the future in this scenario. Ivers0n said he wouldn't be able to play this weekend and I announced in our club forum page that Eggman would be the substitute. Ivers0n never told me or posted on the forum that he still wanted to play.
Question: When both Eggman & Ivers0n showed up to play the game, should the official match have been Knak versus Eggman? That's my understanding, despite the original game with Ivers0n still being displayed in the gameroom. |
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Assuming everything really did take place as stated, you are right, the official player was Eggman. The rules are clear on this point:
8.1 Player Resignation
8.1.1 The official player must state in his team's forum clubhouse thread that he will be unable to play his scheduled game. All subsequent discussion takes place in the clubhouse thread, or the results of any discussion that takes place elsewhere must be recorded in this thread.
[...]
8.1.3 If the manager is available, he has the final decision as to who will be the substitute. After announcing his decision he may not change it unless the substitute subsequently resigns his position as per step 8.1.1. If the manager is unavailable a subsitution can only be made at the game time as per section 8.2.
So technically Ivers0n should have posted his resignation publicly, but that's a side point. The point here is that he did resign. From that point forward he was no longer the official player. The official player is then whoever is approved by the manager. The new official player stays the official player unless he resigns, notwithstanding the originally rostered player discovering he is, in fact, available.
(If Eggman hadn't turned up, then Ivers0n could have stepped forward to take his place. But he would not have taken any precedence over any other available player; the fact he was the originally rostered player would still have been irrelevant.)
Technically knak forfeits because he declined the invitation from Eggman. However, if all parties concerned are agreed that the Ivers0n v. knak game should stand, and there are no objections, I am prepared to make an exception in this instance.
on Sep 1st, 2012, 11:14am, Adanac wrote:| I know that there are a lot of people that volunteered for administrative duty. Does anyone have admin rights that could update the gameroom AWL scheduled games after reading announcements in the forum? |
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I have no objection to people volunteering for this, although of course it will be difficult to guarantee consistency.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2012, 11:54am by megajester » |
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Fritzlein
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Re: Rescheduled Games
« Reply #9 on: Sep 1st, 2012, 6:16pm » |
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on Sep 1st, 2012, 11:46am, megajester wrote:| Technically knak forfeits because he declined the invitation from Eggman. However, if all parties concerned are agreed that the Ivers0n v. knak game should stand, and there are no objections, I am prepared to make an exception in this instance. |
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Please count Iverson vs. knak as the official game. Given a situation that has never occurred before, given that you weren't there to make a ruling, given that the players present did something very reasonable that might have been in accordance with the rules under a different interpretation (e.g. that strictly Eggman would not be allowed to substitute until Iverson fails to show up, which he didn't), it would seem silly to assign a forfeit.
Having procedures in place should protect both teams from being treated unfairly. It would be a sad day if both teams were in fact treated fairly, and the role of having procedures in place was to create opportunities to forfeit someone for not following procedures.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 1st, 2012, 6:25pm by Fritzlein » |
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knak
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Re: Rescheduled Games
« Reply #10 on: Sep 1st, 2012, 11:29pm » |
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I had no idea that Ivers0n had asked for a replacement, thus "forfeiting" the game. I entered the official game room at about a minute before the scheduled time. Ivers0n submitted his first move, and the game proceeded normally.
Several minutes into the game, I received a challenge from Eggman. Given that I was playing what seemed to be the official game by every indication, I declined the game and disregarded the challenge, which stated "Ivers0n couldn't make it," since this seemed obviously to be false. The clock on the live game was ticking, and I didn't want to take too much time to chat with Eggman or sort out what the misunderstanding was.
Eggman then challenged again, and at this point it became very distracting from the game so I declined, asking that no further challenges be made. I don't think it would be reasonable to expect me to have, mid-game, with the clock running, searched the forums to see whether Ivers0n asked for a sub, then studied the AWL rules to see who the correct player would be.
If a game is rescheduled or a player is substituted, at the very least the opponent needs to know before the game starts. Receiving a challenge mid-game stating something like "this is the official game, not the one you are playing" should not be the first and only way that players are informed when and whom they are playing.
Consider if I had accepted Eggman's challenge, and, say resigned or timed out against Ivers0n, but later learned that Eggman had only provisionally and not officially been substituted. I certainly couldn't be expected to have played both games at once.
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megajester
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Re: Rescheduled Games
« Reply #11 on: Sep 2nd, 2012, 1:01am » |
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I agree, Fritz, that it would be unfair in the spirit of the rules to say knak forfeits. Strictly speaking I see no other way of interpreting rules 8.1.1 and 8.1.3, but when the rules were being drafted nobody envisioned that a player might resign, and then turn up and play the game anyway. I mean, who would do that, right? I completely agree and sympathize with knak that there is nothing else he could reasonably have been expected to do.
So if there are no reasonable objections before the end of today, Ivers0n v. knak will stand.
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Eggman
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Re: Rescheduled Games
« Reply #12 on: Sep 2nd, 2012, 9:54am » |
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I'm perfectly content to have the Ivers0n vs knak game stand. I want to mention, however, that I had emailed knak Wednesday about potentially rescheduling the game and sent him an Arimaa message on the same topic Thursday so I'm not sure what more I could have done to prevent him from being surprised by my game invitation. That was nowhere near as out of the blue as he apparently thought.
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knak
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Re: Rescheduled Games
« Reply #13 on: Sep 2nd, 2012, 10:12am » |
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Ah, thanks Eggman. That does sound perfectly reasonable. I don't check the email associated with Arimaa very often. Due to the number of emails that Arimaa sends me (about postal game moves, etc.) and the fact that it is shared with anyone whom I play, it is not my normal email address. Arimaa messages are also just email messages (I think) to the same address. I check forum messages somewhat regularly (during the AWL), but maybe I wouldn't have noticed that either.
Now that I have had this experience I will certainly check for email messages and forum posts before my next scheduled game. But I also think that in a similar situation in the future, another player may have the same problem and confusion that I did.
I'm not sure what people think the best way to fix this would be, but the suggestion that the AWL scheduled games be updated after someone officially forfeits seems totally reasonable to me. I (mistakenly) thought those were the official games. I also (mistakenly) thought that if a game was to be rescheduled or altered, then both parties had to agree to it publicly beforehand.
If it helps, I would be happy to play a new, rescheduled game against Eggman.
EDIT: I have just read the messages and I feel bad for not checking that email ahead of the match. Again, I won't make this mistake in the future, and I'm sorry for the confusion that my ignorance of those messages caused.
Ironically Arimaa messages are no different or better than email messages. There is absolutely no indication anywhere on the Arimaa site (forums or anywhere) that a message has been sent.
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| « Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2012, 10:21am by knak » |
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Eggman
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Re: Rescheduled Games
« Reply #14 on: Sep 2nd, 2012, 10:57am » |
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No worries, knak. I don't see a need to replay that game (it's very unlikely the result would change, anyway ). The crux of the problem seems to be making everyone involved aware when a substitution is made. If/when I'm in that position again, my plan will be to start a "Substitutions" thread (assuming my account has permission to start new threads in this forum) and announce my substitution there.
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