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Topic: No capture goals/immobilizations (Read 1765 times) |
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mistre
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No capture goals/immobilizations
« on: Apr 14th, 2008, 3:48pm » |
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I am generally pleased with the revised botbashers page, but there is one area I would like to change.
The no capture records currently show the fastest to do so for each bot. However, this hasn't been done for alot of the bots, so there are too many n/a's. Also, since it is a relatively rare feat (In over 800 games, I think I have only had 1), and I already listed all of the no-capture immos, I thought it would be nice to list all of the no-capture goals as well, regardless of speed.
In actuality, the longer a no-capture game goes on, the more amazing it is - so I definitely don't think we should only show the "fastest" no-captures.
Karl, can you run a query for ALL no-capture games in the database, and divide them by goal and immo?
I will revise the no-capture table to show all no-capture games, but get rid of the bot names that don't have one.
Thanks.
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: No capture goals/immobilizations
« Reply #1 on: Apr 15th, 2008, 8:13am » |
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I'm not sure whether no-capture wins are rare because they are so hard, or because they are so seldom tried, but anyway, here is the list you requested:
[EDIT: Sorry I didn't sort this list by termination type as requested. I will repost later.]
[EDIT: Results are now sorted.]
id termination wusername busername
37699 g bot_Aamira2006Blitz DorianGaray
56962 g bot_Aamira2006Blitz The_Jeh
52525 g bot_Aamira2006CC mdk
25162 g bot_Aamira2006P1 OLTI
27714 g bot_Aamira2006P2 bot_Bomb2005P1
31521 g bot_Aamira2006P2 bot_Clueless2006Fast
38202 g bot_Aamira2006P2 bot_Loc2006P2
42640 g bot_Aamira2006P2 rjr
60723 g bot_Aamira2006P2 froody
63681 g bot_Aamira2006P2 Arimanator
64480 g bot_Aamira2006P2 kevs
8817 g bot_Arimaalon clauchau
10503 g bot_Arimaalon Adanac
11684 g bot_Arimaalon Keith
12611 g bot_Arimaalon OLTI
12772 g bot_Arimaalon Eduardo
13268 g bot_Arimaalon Terrabang
14305 g bot_Arimaalon megamau
17566 g bot_Arimaalon BlackKnight
18282 g bot_Arimaalon nbarriga
20189 g bot_Arimaalon Deadpool
21834 g bot_Arimaalon crispbadforiu
22599 g bot_Arimaalon CraigS
42782 g bot_Arimaalon Alky
47084 g bot_Arimaalon BBcardsRI
52816 g bot_Arimaalon thefrankinator
53875 g bot_Arimaalon Kruschak
56027 g bot_Arimaalon Steve
58632 g bot_Arimaalon jazz153
61634 g bot_Arimaalon thesonicvision
64222 g bot_Arimaalon omega91
67932 g bot_Arimaalon Dom83
2684 g bot_Arimaanator omar
3278 g bot_Arimaanator naveed
3779 g bot_Arimaanator whiteKnight
7820 g bot_Arimaanator Fritzlein
11236 g bot_Arimaanator BlackKnight
16112 g bot_Arimaanator blue22
27122 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 Guest4784
31629 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 tomcstein
54367 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 matrixclown
55605 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 Guest6800
56310 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 Kruschak
56313 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 Kruschak
56316 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 Kruschak
60282 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 jackacake
63479 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 The_Jeh
68641 g bot_ArimaaScoreP1 zolli
1303 g bot_Arimaazilla omar
1494 g bot_Arimaazilla coachbudka
2050 g bot_Arimaazilla omar
2052 g bot_Arimaazilla omar
3010 g bot_Arimaazilla Belbo
3738 g bot_Arimaazilla whiteKnight
4349 g bot_Arimaazilla kamikazeking
5526 g bot_Arimaazilla markluffel
6573 g bot_Arimaazilla deselby
6863 g bot_Arimaazilla Belbo
6914 g bot_Arimaazilla RonWeasley
7381 g bot_Arimaazilla angrytuna
7866 g bot_Arimaazilla quicky
8138 g bot_Arimaazilla ytri
8653 g bot_Arimaazilla naveed
8781 g bot_Arimaazilla ytri
8877 g bot_Arimaazilla PMertens
11574 g bot_Arimaazilla naveed
17991 g bot_Arimaazilla rick
21624 g bot_Arimaazilla aanno
22101 g bot_Arimaazilla crispbadforiu
24375 g bot_Arimaazilla bot_Loc2005P2
24748 g bot_Arimaazilla Condo3356
26073 g bot_Arimaazilla bot_Loc2006Blitz
28452 g bot_Arimaazilla Matthias
29082 g bot_Arimaazilla bot_Bomb2005Blitz
35207 g bot_Arimaazilla syed
40685 g bot_Arimaazilla Tore
43701 g bot_Arimaazilla fwk
56589 g bot_Arimaazilla Krasnotron
62953 g bot_Arimaazilla Soter
65436 g bot_Arimaazilla NS_Serg
66570 g bot_Arimaazilla awedxz
67243 g bot_Arimaazilla gert7
70113 g bot_Arimaazilla JohnJames
9569 g bot_Arimaazon handsomestofall
10275 g bot_Arimaazon boris_toplak
12008 g bot_Arimaazon Adanac
17575 g bot_Arimaazon BlackKnight
21858 g bot_Arimaazon jonaspojken
5318 g bot_bomb omar
58689 g bot_Bomb2005P1 megamau
72312 g bot_Bomb2005P1 Agt
24428 g bot_Clueless2005Blitz bot_GnoBot2005Blitz
27652 g bot_Clueless2005Blitz Arimanator
35238 g bot_Clueless2005Blitz Chegorimaa
17400 g bot_Clueless2005P1 BlackKnight
50373 g bot_Clueless2005P1 dougk
50781 g bot_Clueless2005P1 syed
40362 g bot_Clueless2005P2 blue22
65002 g bot_Clueless2005P2 froody
69485 g bot_Clueless2005P2 bananaman
44466 g bot_Clueless2006Fast bot_clueless
29176 g bot_Fairy bot_Arimaazilla
4098 g bot_GnoBot kamikazeking
22823 g bot_GnoBot bot_clueless
11414 g bot_GnoBot2004CC Belbo
51761 g bot_GnoBot2005Blitz Adanac
12260 g bot_GnoBot2005Fast Fritzlein
25844 g bot_GnoBot2005Fast OLTI
60088 g bot_GnoBot2005Fast Ganesha
17403 g bot_GnoBot2005P1 BlackKnight
24611 g bot_GnoBot2005P1 bot_Loc2005P2
27249 g bot_GnoBot2005P1 bot_Loc2005P2
28053 g bot_GnoBot2005P1 bot_Loc2005P2
30713 g bot_GnoBot2005P1 bot_Loc2005P2
24919 g bot_GnoBot2005P2 fritzlforpresident
25583 g bot_GnoBot2005P2 Belbo
26284 g bot_GnoBot2005P2 Swynndla
49647 g bot_GnoBot2005P2 mistre
42031 g bot_GnoBot2006Blitz Aquarius
33715 g bot_GnoBot2006P1 Andhi
34331 g bot_GnoBot2006P1 knarl
25184 g bot_Loc2005CC bot_Aamira2006P2
18007 g bot_Loc2005P1 99of9
48200 g bot_Loc2006P1 Sixhobbits
68753 g bot_Loc2006P1 chlydra
1126 g bot_Occam naveed
1467 g bot_Occam Nate1729
1743 g bot_Occam omar
1852 g bot_Occam naveed
2498 g bot_Occam bleitner
2683 g bot_Occam omar
2763 g bot_Occam Belbo
2917 g bot_Occam Belbo
9801 g bot_pmertens_1 bot_ShallowBlue
759 g bot_ShallowBlue clauchau
787 g bot_ShallowBlue asyed94
2807 g bot_ShallowBlue terra
6107 g bot_ShallowBlue pso
7374 g bot_ShallowBlue ytri
8581 g bot_ShallowBlue Dacar
8981 g bot_ShallowBlue luzer
9276 g bot_ShallowBlue PMertens
9324 g bot_ShallowBlue mouse
9328 g bot_ShallowBlue akiva
9489 g bot_ShallowBlue mouse
9495 g bot_ShallowBlue mouse
9535 g bot_ShallowBlue mouse
9542 g bot_ShallowBlue mouse
9749 g bot_ShallowBlue omar
12641 g bot_ShallowBlue OLTI
16389 g bot_ShallowBlue Erk
26908 g bot_ShallowBlue smojo
72805 g bot_ShallowBlue griffonage
19816 g bot_weiserP2 bot_Loc2005P2
19475 m bot_Arimaanator Arimanator
12575 m bot_Arimaazon Belbo
19321 m bot_Bomb2005Blitz Arimanator
19357 m bot_Bomb2005Blitz Arimanator
19364 m bot_Bomb2005Blitz Arimanator
19372 m bot_Bomb2005Blitz Arimanator
19378 m bot_Bomb2005Blitz Arimanator
19392 m bot_Bomb2005Blitz Arimanator
19459 m bot_Bomb2005Blitz Arimanator
19670 m bot_Bomb2005Blitz Arimanator
19154 m bot_Bomb2005Fast Arimanator
44185 m bot_Clueless2006Fast milo
id termination wusername busername
7186 g bot_Arimaazilla bot_Aamira
32111 g chrismccoll bot_Aamira2006Blitz
33603 g seanick bot_Aamira2006Blitz
35055 g kerdamdam bot_Aamira2006Fast
25254 g bot_Occam2004CC bot_Aamira2006P2
28462 g Matthias bot_Aamira2006P2
40126 g sihing bot_Aamira2006P2
56414 g TonyT bot_Aamira2006P2
62303 g wumps bot_Aamira2006P2
66276 g gert7 bot_Aamira2006P2
8768 g novacat bot_Arimaalon
9059 g handsomestofall bot_Arimaalon
11210 g Tobi bot_Arimaalon
11706 g Merlin bot_Arimaalon
12000 g dtj bot_Arimaalon
14383 g OLTI bot_Arimaalon
17565 g BlackKnight bot_Arimaalon
17567 g BlackKnight bot_Arimaalon
54945 g Kruschak bot_Arimaalon
56334 g Robo707man bot_Arimaalon
57030 g Talmun bot_Arimaalon
57675 g Sthingy
45 bot_Arimaalon
3221 g bleitner bot_Arimaanator
3246 g bleitner bot_Arimaanator
9132 g PMertens bot_Arimaanator
24892 g fritzlforpresident bot_ArimaaScoreP1
25004 g clauchau bot_ArimaaScoreP1
25061 g IdahoEv bot_ArimaaScoreP1
34790 g Elmo bot_ArimaaScoreP1
36862 g Heidissimo bot_ArimaaScoreP1
37477 g i_am_you bot_ArimaaScoreP1
40297 g KlausX bot_ArimaaScoreP1
54368 g matrixclown bot_ArimaaScoreP1
55075 g Guest6708 bot_ArimaaScoreP1
56537 g Krasnotron bot_ArimaaScoreP1
57051 g rebyonak bot_ArimaaScoreP1
59890 g Guest7286 bot_ArimaaScoreP1
61796 g Kruschak bot_ArimaaScoreP1
64425 g jadtaylor bot_ArimaaScoreP1
71152 g PickPocket bot_ArimaaScoreP1
71716 g Kitashiyukoon bot_ArimaaScoreP1
72494 g 722caasi bot_ArimaaScoreP1
1866 g naveed bot_Arimaazilla
1927 g naveed bot_Arimaazilla
2385 g bleitner bot_Arimaazilla
2463 g bleitner bot_Arimaazilla
2812 g naveed bot_Arimaazilla
2953 g megamau bot_Arimaazilla
3368 g bot_leapfrog bot_Arimaazilla
4033 g Belbo bot_Arimaazilla
4148 g Hannibal bot_Arimaazilla
6577 g deselby bot_Arimaazilla
6892 g novicehex bot_Arimaazilla
7326 g Belbo bot_Arimaazilla
7583 g Belbo bot_Arimaazilla
10532 g Adanac bot_Arimaazilla
11538 g arvindn bot_Arimaazilla
12155 g dtj bot_Arimaazilla
12167 g inylong bot_Arimaazilla
12594 g Yusei bot_Arimaazilla
13025 g OLTI bot_Arimaazilla
14215 g Gregorius bot_Arimaazilla
17222 g rick bot_Arimaazilla
20957 g chrismccoll bot_Arimaazilla
24031 g frostlad bot_Arimaazilla
41592 g DegenerateGambler bot_Arimaazilla
57735 g IdahoEv bot_Arimaazilla
68581 g ArifSyed bot_Arimaazilla
9070 g maker bot_Arimaazon
10906 g Adanac bot_Arimaazon
11039 g arvindn bot_Arimaazon
12161 g PMertens bot_Arimaazon
13667 g Arimanator bot_Arimaazon
13992 g OLTI bot_Arimaazon
14787 g carlsquared bot_Arimaazon
15016 g carlsquared bot_Arimaazon
16821 g blue22 bot_Arimaazon
17569 g BlackKnight bot_Arimaazon
19202 g bot_Bomb2005Blitz bot_bash
58428 g Sthingy
45 bot_Bomb2005P1
1110 g MrBrain bot_Brain
17284 g BlackKnight bot_Clueless2005Blitz
40108 g blue22 bot_Clueless2005Fast
18146 g 99of9 bot_Clueless2005P1
33150 g jawdirk bot_Clueless2005P1
34961 g gcolbourn bot_Clueless2006P1
47848 g camelback bot_Clueless2006P1
66899 g gert7 bot_Clueless2006P1
5018 g bot_Occam bot_GnoBot
21968 g bot_Bomb2005Blitz bot_GnoBot
37334 g seanick bot_GnoBot2005Fast
31289 g bot_Aamira2006P2 bot_GnoBot2005P1
39677 g Nematode bot_GnoBot2005P1
49145 g Terennis bot_GnoBot2005P1
67557 g chlydra bot_GnoBot2005P1
44715 g bot_Bomb2005CC bot_GnoBot2006CC
28521 g rcline bot_GnoBot2006P1
51800 g Yusaku bot_GnoBot2006P1
28738 g bot_Loc2006Fast bot_GnoBot2006P2
30938 g bot_Bomb2005Fast bot_GnoBot2006P2
12699 g asheesh bot_iiith
18005 g 99of9 bot_Loc2005P1
57133 g Talmun bot_Loc2005P1
51083 g aaaa bot_Loc2006CC
25944 g KT2006 bot_Loc2006P1
41354 g The_Jeh bot_Loc2006P1
44225 g esg bot_Loc2006P1
48074 g Sixhobbits bot_Loc2006P1
66589 g silump5 bot_Loc2006P1
317 g kamikazeking bot_Occam
670 g siddiqna bot_Occam
685 g bot_bomb bot_Occam
1011 g MrBrain bot_Occam
3650 g Belbo bot_Occam
4140 g Belbo bot_Occam
31693 g bot_Bomb2005P2 bot_Occam2004CC
72057 g bot_Bomb2005CC bot_OpFor
297 g Lucky bot_ShallowBlue
491 g mohabbatse bot_ShallowBlue
1569 g cam43031 bot_ShallowBlue
1849 g omar bot_ShallowBlue
3367 g bot_leapfrog bot_ShallowBlue
4090 g lemmy bot_ShallowBlue
5083 g tomcstein bot_ShallowBlue
5086 g tomcstein bot_ShallowBlue
5131 g TheMadHair bot_ShallowBlue
5721 g Jojo bot_ShallowBlue
7283 g BlackKnight bot_ShallowBlue
8846 g handsomestofall bot_ShallowBlue
8848 g handsomestofall bot_ShallowBlue
9028 g 88of8 bot_ShallowBlue
9120 g pop bot_ShallowBlue
9264 g brad bot_ShallowBlue
9286 g mouse bot_ShallowBlue
9494 g mouse bot_ShallowBlue
9534 g mouse bot_ShallowBlue
9543 g mouse bot_ShallowBlue
11459 g alexispoquiz bot_ShallowBlue
11926 g tryingarimaa bot_ShallowBlue
12314 g Yusei bot_ShallowBlue
12640 g OLTI bot_ShallowBlue
12719 g rhy bot_ShallowBlue
12767 g Eduardo bot_ShallowBlue
12768 g Eduardo bot_ShallowBlue
12770 g Eduardo bot_ShallowBlue
12890 g jt4ur bot_ShallowBlue
13561 g OLTI bot_ShallowBlue
14768 g Booyah bot_ShallowBlue
15710 g OLTI bot_ShallowBlue
16513 g rick bot_ShallowBlue
16518 g rick bot_ShallowBlue
17611 g taleywhacker bot_ShallowBlue
20185 g Deadpool bot_ShallowBlue
20597 g Ethos bot_ShallowBlue
23448 g Masonic_Edge bot_ShallowBlue
23786 g TheHittMan0081 bot_ShallowBlue
26717 g AKALucifer bot_ShallowBlue
28648 g IdahoEv bot_ShallowBlue
33086 g jawdirk bot_ShallowBlue
34614 g bot_GnoBot2006Fast bot_ShallowBlue
43469 g Deck bot_ShallowBlue
67249 g wiggin bot_ShallowBlue
21932 g bot_GnoBot bot_V
19806 g PMertens bot_weiserP2
29895 g Masonic_Edge bot_WRK847
40109 m Brendan bot_Aamira2006CC
12313 m PMertens bot_Arimaanator
14259 m Ryan_Cable bot_Arimaazilla
19327 m Arimanator bot_Bomb2005Blitz
19445 m PMertens bot_Bomb2005Blitz
19132 m Arimanator bot_Bomb2005Fast
21318 m Belbo bot_Bomb2005Fast
63271 m Arimanator bot_Bomb2005Fast
17544 m Arimanator bot_Bomb2005P2
37625 m PMertens bot_Bomb2005P2
37674 m PMertens bot_Bomb2005P2
59165 m Arimabuff bot_Clueless2006P2
18992 m PMertens bot_GnoBot2005CC
28430 m Arimanator bot_GnoBot2006Fast
46885 m Belbo bot_Zombie
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| « Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2008, 9:50am by Fritzlein » |
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99of9
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Gnobby's creator (player #314)
 
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Re: No capture goals/immobilizations
« Reply #2 on: Apr 15th, 2008, 10:37pm » |
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on Apr 15th, 2008, 8:13am, Fritzlein wrote:| I'm not sure whether no-capture wins are rare because they are so hard, or because they are so seldom tried, but anyway, here is the list you requested: |
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My feeling is that listing all of these is a bit of a pointless exercise. Against a simple bot, this is an easy thing to achieve, which is why not many people try (unless they are trying to do it quickly). If people tried, this list could easily blow out, and it's already so long that nobody would ever go through it game by game.
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mistre
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Re: No capture goals/immobilizations
« Reply #3 on: Apr 16th, 2008, 9:45am » |
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After seeing the length of this list, I have to agree with you.
That is why I have decided to list only P2 bots and higher on the ladder for no-capture goals, and all immobilizations.
That pares it down to 33 goals and 24 immos.
I think the no-capture move records are pretty meaningless for the P1 bots and Occam, Shallowblue, Arimalon, Arimaazilla because they typically are the same as the fastest goal anyways and it is not particularly hard to do.
P2 bots put up more of a fight and therefore it is very rare that you can win without any pieces being taken on either side. All of these games, regardless of number of moves should be recognized. Coincidently, 15 of the 33 goals were against Aamira2006p2 and its attacking style, which makes sense. So only 18 other no-capture goals vs other P2 bots and higher (fast, blitz, cc) are on record out of 75,000 games. A rare feat indeed.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2008, 9:45am by mistre » |
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: No capture goals/immobilizations
« Reply #4 on: Apr 16th, 2008, 9:52am » |
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The list is now sorted.
on Apr 16th, 2008, 9:45am, mistre wrote:
But a difficult one?
Anyway, if you are up to the task of listing it every time someone does it, I don't see a problem.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2008, 9:53am by Fritzlein » |
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mistre
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Re: No capture goals/immobilizations
« Reply #5 on: Apr 16th, 2008, 10:34am » |
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Thanks for sorting, but you were a wee bit late in doing that, as I already sorted by hand in an excel spreadsheet! 
Anyways, I think that no-capture goals vs P2 bots are so rare because newer players usually will lose a piece at some point, and experienced players typically have other concerns if going for records (fastest goal, immo, or handicap - which typically conflict with the no-capture rule ). The exception is the no-capture immos, which are specifically planned for.
Of the handful of no-capture goals vs P2 bots, I would bet that few, if any at all, were actually intentional. I would have to go back and look at each game to see if there were any times where a player refused to take a piece without an immediate goal threat.
It is still up for debate how difficult it is to pull off a no-capture goal with the intention of doing so at the beginning of the game (vs a P2 bot or higher). I might try a few times and see.
Maybe it would be the right decision not to recognize no-capture goals at all, only immos. Any opinions out there?
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Arimabuff
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Arimaa player #2764
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Re: No capture goals/immobilizations
« Reply #6 on: Apr 16th, 2008, 11:16am » |
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on Apr 16th, 2008, 10:34am, mistre wrote:Thanks for sorting, but you were a wee bit late in doing that, as I already sorted by hand in an excel spreadsheet!
Anyways, I think that no-capture goals vs P2 bots are so rare because newer players usually will lose a piece at some point, and experienced players typically have other concerns if going for records (fastest goal, immo, or handicap - which typically conflict with the no-capture rule ). The exception is the no-capture immos, which are specifically planned for.
Of the handful of no-capture goals vs P2 bots, I would bet that few, if any at all, were actually intentional. I would have to go back and look at each game to see if there were any times where a player refused to take a piece without an immediate goal threat.
It is still up for debate how difficult it is to pull off a no-capture goal with the intention of doing so at the beginning of the game (vs a P2 bot or higher). I might try a few times and see.
Maybe it would be the right decision not to recognize no-capture goals at all, only immos. Any opinions out there? |
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Just my two cents...
People usually understand a "hall of fame" as giving an account of RARE feats. The best game for each imaginable category plus a few EXCEPTIONAL games looks like the way to go. Nobody's idea of rare can include a listing of 300 GAMES sharing ONE characteristic, especially over a period of five years with 30 people playing Arimaa on a regular basis at a moment's notice.
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mistre
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Re: No capture goals/immobilizations
« Reply #7 on: Apr 16th, 2008, 1:29pm » |
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I have decided to ditch the no-capture goal records. The botbasher page has been updated.
Also there were a few more no-capture immobilizations that I found in the recent list that were not caught before. All of them should be listed now.
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Fritzlein
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Arimaa player #706
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Re: No capture goals/immobilizations
« Reply #8 on: Apr 16th, 2008, 3:06pm » |
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on Apr 16th, 2008, 1:29pm, mistre wrote:| I have decided to ditch the no-capture goal records. The botbasher page has been updated. |
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So you have come from listing all such games to not even listing the fastest against each bot? Interesting...
I guess one guide to whether a class of records should be in the Hall of Fame is whether people compete for those records or not. Given that most no-capture goals happened incidentally, and not many people have ever intentionally tried for no-capture goal, your decision makes sense. Originally it was Omar who suggested that type of record and tried for it in one game of the 2004 Challenge, but it never caught on as much as other types of botbashing challenges.
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| « Last Edit: Apr 16th, 2008, 3:08pm by Fritzlein » |
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Arimabuff
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Arimaa player #2764
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Re: No capture goals/immobilizations
« Reply #9 on: Apr 16th, 2008, 5:11pm » |
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on Apr 16th, 2008, 3:06pm, Fritzlein wrote:
So you have come from listing all such games to not even listing the fastest against each bot? Interesting...
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I never cared all that much for them anyway. They are usually of the dull kind. At least a no capture immo. has an ending that looks spectacular.
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